Alec Baldwin on the JFKA on The Rachel Maddow Show

[Cliff Varnell]

Heh heh, that's a hypothetical, of course.

But let's say Alec Baldwin booked 90 seconds on the popular cable news show to make the case for conspiracy in the murder of JFK, AND Baldwin picked YOU to write the script.

Facts only, no theories, no begging the question.

What would you write?

[Joe Bauer]

If I was writing this script for average citizens who knew little about the case and probably were never going to research it themselves, I would start off with recalling Oswald saying to the world's press  No..."I am just a patsy."  When asked by them if he killed JFK.

That statement by Oswald is a fact.

And it reflects "the opposite" of most lone nut advocate's claims regards Oswald's motivation to 
to shoot JFK - because he wanted himself to be known as a somebody in history. 

Oswald was trying very hard to distance himself from this glory grabbing event. Denying shooting anyone is not proclaiming one's grand place in notorious history.

And then I would present the impossible scenario of Jack Ruby casually by passing what was the most heightened security measures ever initiated in Dallas Police Department history to get within feet of Oswald and a clear shot into his gut...closer to Oswald than 68 of the 70 or more armed officers whose primary duty that day was to ensure Oswald's safety during his transfer to the County jail.

That failure and breakdown in that effort is beyond any explanation except collusion.

Ruby killing Oswald under those circumstances is to me the biggest single event that screams conspiracy.

With maybe a few seconds left I would ask listeners to trust their gut and common sense in deciding if they have been told the truth about the JFK assassination.

Referring listeners to all the great JFK research and books would be nice...but most of them would never put in this effort.

 

[Cliff Varnell]

30 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

If I was writing this script for average citizens who knew little about the case and probably were never going to research it themselves, I would start off with recalling Oswald saying to the world's press  No..."I am just a patsy."  When asked by them if he killed JFK.

That statement by Oswald is a fact.

And it reflects "the opposite" of most lone nut advocate's claims regards Oswald's motivation to 
to shoot JFK - because he wanted himself to be known as a somebody in history. 

Oswald was trying very hard to distance himself from this glory grabbing event. Denying shooting anyone is not proclaiming one's grand place in notorious history.

And then I would present the impossible scenario of Jack Ruby casually by passing what was the most heightened security measures ever initiated in Dallas Police Department history to get within feet of Oswald and a clear shot into his gut...closer to Oswald than 68 of the 70 or more armed officers whose primary duty that day was to ensure Oswald's safety during his transfer to the County jail.

That failure and breakdown in that effort is beyond any explanation except collusion.

Ruby killing Oswald under those circumstances is to me the biggest single event that screams conspiracy.

Wih maybe a few seconds left I would ask listeners to trust their gut and common sense in deciding if they have been told the truth about the JFK assassination.

Referring listeners to all the great JFK research and books would be nice...but most of them would never put in this effort.

That's a good, snappy angle  -- and the main reason why folks have always been open to the conspiracy explanation.  Ruby shooting Oswald reeks of conspiracy.

Thanks, Joe!

Edited March 22, 2018 by Cliff Varnell

[Cliff Varnell]

On 3/22/2018 at 3:52 PM, Joe Bauer said:

Referring listeners to all the great JFK research and books would be nice...but most of them would never put in this effort.

Joe, obsession with the JFKA is a generational thing.

According to the last poll on the subject, white college-educated males favor the lone nut view 49% - 46%.

White college-educated male millennials are likely north of 50% LNer.

The Oswald Mock Trial patsy defenders lost to the State of Texas 6 - 5 - 1, with no millennials for the defense.

And 90 seconds is forever for a millennial -- if you can't grab them by 30 seconds you have no shot of gaining their attention.

No knock on them, that's just the way it is.

[Cliff Varnell]

Rachel Maddow

Our special guest tonight -- on the 55th anniversary of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy—is one of our favorite friends of the show, Alec Baldwin.  Welcome, Alec.

 

 Alec Baldwin

Thanks for having me on tonight, Rachel.  I’d like to take the opportunity to take a fresh approach to the murder of John F. Kennedy – no theories, just facts.  Approach the case like any cop would approach any murder.

 

Maddow

Loved you as Captain Ellerby in The Departed!

 

Baldwin

Hold that thought – I may get brutally honest soon enough.

 

Maddow (laughing)

I can’t wait!

 

Baldwin

Fact #1:  There is a bullet hole in JFK’s shirt 4 inches below the bottom of the collar.

Fact #2:  Kennedy’s personal physician filled out the official, verified Death Certificate and listed a wound in his back at the level of the 3rd thoracic vertebra, consistent with the location of the hole in the shirt.

Fact #3: The x-ray of Kennedy’s neck reveals a hairline fracture of the right T1 transverse process, that wing thing on your vertebra.

Fact #4:  Two doctors who attended to Kennedy at Parkland Hospital wrote in their contemporaneous notes that JFK had a wound of entrance in his throat.

Fact #5:  A Secret Service agent who rode in the car right behind Kennedy’s wrote in his contemporaneous notes that he saw JFK hit in the back four inches down the shoulder.

Fact #6: Two FBI agents who were assigned to make a report on the autopsy cabled FBI HQ and said there was a shallow wound in Kennedy’s back, and no bullet was found in the autopsy.

Those 6 facts encompass the strongest evidence in the case – physical evidence, documentary evidence, and the contemporaneous written accounts of 5 men in position of authority.

We know from this fact pattern that JFK was shot in the back at T3, the round didn’t exit, and no round was found during the autopsy.

There was a wound of entrance in the throat, no exit, and no round found during the autopsy.

Draw what conclusions you may, those are the facts.

 

Maddow

Wound in the back, no exit, no bullet found.  Wound in the throat, no exit, no bullet found.  What could have happened to those bullets, Alec?

 

 Baldwin

 I dunno. I don’t do theories.  Maybe folks in your profession could look into it – after all 55 years isn’t too late to do your jobs.

 

Maddow

And so… the Captain Ellerby treatment after all!  Thanks for comin’ on, Alec.

 

Baldwin

Thanks for having me, Rachel.

                                                                                                 

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by Cliff Varnell

[Paul Trejo]

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 5:52 PM, Joe Bauer said:

(1) ... Oswald...denying shooting anyone is not proclaiming one's grand place in notorious history.

(2) ....The impossible scenario of Jack Ruby...the most heightened security measures ever initiated in Dallas Police Department history...closer to Oswald than...the 70 or more armed officers whose primary duty that day was to ensure Oswald's safety...That failure and breakdown in that effort is beyond any explanation except collusion.

Joe,

Nice summary of two key points of the JFK Assassination.    I offer a remark on point #2.

IMHO, Seth Kantor wrote the definitive book on Jack Ruby, namely, Who Was Jack Ruby? (1971).   In that book, he showed the Jack Ruby was a tool of the Dallas Police.

Seth Kantor knew Jack Ruby personally, and he believed that Jack was too unstable to do anything on his own -- instead, several Dallas Police prevailed upon Jack Ruby to convince him to kill Lee Harvey Oswald -- to win a place in history, to avenge a fellow DPD cop, to kill a cop-killer, and to potentially be a hero to the whole USA.

It took some doing.  They worked on Jack Ruby from Friday night through Sunday morning.    Finally, he cracked.   Jack Ruby did what the Dallas Police begged him to do.

All best,
--Paul

[Joe Bauer]

Paul, I agree about Ruby and his relationship with the DPD. And I could easily accept that they ( certain members of the DPD ) got word to him and set up Ruby's access to be able to shoot Oswald.

I do think there may also be other forces at work with this action though.

Who did many of the DPD have allegiances to in the JFK hating far right and racial anger arena?  We all know who.

Also, Ruby's phone calls to Chicago took a huge leap in number the month before the assassination. And this was just about Ruby's girls and band members demanding more in their contracts with him? Please.

And I wonder if Ruby gave any thought as to whether Joe Campisi and Carlos Marcello and Sam Giancana would approve of his whacking of Oswald? If these three Mafia guys didn't want Oswald to be hit and Ruby knew about their decision, you can guarantee he wouldn't have performed it.

There is a video of an interview of Dallas Police Detective Jim Leavelle ( Oswald's personal body guard ) where he talks about his actions and thoughts the weekend of 11,22,1963 thru 11,24,1963.

In this interview Leavelle says ( paraphrasing ) he was not even that concerned about JFK's murder compared to how he felt about fellow DPD Officer J.D. Tippit's murder.

Tippit's murder was his assignment and he took it personally.  Not so with JFK's.

It's common sense that many of the DPD force ( like Leavelle) also wanted Oswald's A$$ bad because they were equally enraged that Oswald killed one of their own. 

Talk about wolves guarding the hen house!

Oswald's security in the hands of a group of men who felt as Jim Leavelle did about Oswald was a death sentence for him in my mind.

One can rationally assume many involved in Oswald's personal security in the DPD building didn't want Oswald to have a chance at a trial where he might somehow get a reprieve from the kind of justice they felt this bastard "cop killer" deserved.

Leavelle also recounts how he told Oswald the morning of the transfer how he ( Leavelle) hoped that if someone were to take a pot shot at Oswald while he was attached to Oswald that he hoped they would be as accurate as Oswald and not hit him instead.

Think about this statement by Leavelle to Oswald for one minute.

It isn't such a far out thought in Leavelle's mind that this highly improbable and drastically violent action of someone trying to shoot Oswald while Leavelle is guarding him could happen? 

To me, it's a suspiciously bizarre sharing with Oswald. 

You'd think that Leavelle wouldn't be so insecure about such a risky attack ( like an open street one) during a very brief exposing of Oswald to a supposedly checked out "press only" assemblage inside a secure building with 70 armed police security and a quite short distance to escort Oswald until he got into whatever vehicle they were going to use to transport him to the County Jail.

Leavelle's precognitive thoughts of such an event were remarkably prescient in it's playing out just as he described to Oswald minutes later. Incredible coincidence? 

And Leavelle's guilty bias toward Oswald was so clear when he bluntly told Oswald he thought Oswald was accurate in his murder shootings.

Great choice to guard Oswald.

 

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by Joe Bauer

[Cliff Varnell]

If I recall correctly, the first poll on the issue of conspiracy in 1964 showed 50% rejected the official story, a number which went way up over time in spite of the relentless mainstream media push for the WC.

It's now back down to 62%.

Because Ruby shot Oswald I don't think the polling will ever get below 50%.

If CT Pet Theorists keep up their good work muddying the fact of conspiracy, it'll likely get down to 50% again.

[Joe Bauer]

9 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

 

Because Ruby shot Oswald I don't think the polling will ever get below 50%.

Totally agree.

Jack Ruby whacking Oswald will always be perhaps the main foundation catalyst for sensing a conspiracy more than the LN explanation.  Forever.

 

 

[Cliff Varnell]

13 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Jack Ruby whacking Oswald will always be perhaps the main foundation catalyst for sensing a conspiracy more than the LN explanation.  Forever.

This doesn't settle the issue of multiple shooters, however.

In order to make in-roads with millennials the prima facie case for 2+ shooters must be made.

"Bullet holes in clothes too low" + "Mobbed up Ruby whacked the patsy."

 

[Cliff Varnell]

"Bullet holes in clothes too low" + "Mobbed up Ruby whacked the patsy."

The essence of the JFK assassination in 12 words.

[Paul Trejo]

40 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

...Leavelle's precognitive thoughts of such an event were remarkably prescient in it's playing out just as he described to Oswald minutes later. Incredible coincidence? 

And Leavelle's guilty bias toward Oswald was so clear when he bluntly told Oswald he thought Oswald was accurate in his murder shootings.

Great choice to guard Oswald.

Joe,

I'll raise the ante again -- IMHO, some Dallas cops not only disdained JFK, but they joined the Dallas plot to kill JFK.  They were in the best position to do this and get away with it.

The American people have not wanted to hear this for 55 years.   It is better to blame the CIA and the FBI and even LBJ -- than to speak of the theory that the Dallas Police and Deputies killed JFK and LHO in a single weekend.  

In my humble opinion, LHO was supposed to be killed in Oak Cliff -- on the streets.  That's what JD Tippit tried to do -- but he was too slow on the draw.   (The DPD could not kill LHO in the movie theater, because there were too many witnesses -- including many honest DPD cops.)

After LHO was brought into the DPD station, the biggest problem that Captain Will Fritz and Chief Jesse Curry had -- was how to ensure that LHO would be killed in their station.  They could NEVER allow LHO to be transferred to the County Jail, because the Press would be even worse there.

The reason that Jack Ruby was at the Friday midnight conference of the press observing LHO, was so that Jack Ruby could kill LHO then and there.   But either Jack Ruby saw no clear opening, or he chickened out, and needed more coaxing by DPD plotters.

Finally -- Joe -- your point about the high spike in Jack Ruby's calls to Chicago is very interesting.   Do we have the TIMES of those calls?   Because, if they were all AFTER the JFK Assassination, then that could add a lot to my CT.

All best,
--Paul

[Cliff Varnell]

7 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

"Bullet holes in clothes too low" + "Mobbed up Ruby whacked the patsy."

The essence of the JFK assassination in 12 words.

bump

I'm the last guy to bitch about thread hijacking so I'll just do this little bump when it's appropriate.

No big deal.

[Cliff Varnell]

Another classic Parsimonious Proof of Conspiracy is Phil Dragoo's

Too low a hit, you must acquit!

[Kirk Gallaway]

Gee, where have I heard this theory before? I get it Cliff, you keep driving home a basic unexplained fact. An obvious discrepancy. A similar fact, but I think even more simple that I've always heard involves RFK's Assassination, where the fatal bullet enters RFK from behind his ear, where Sirhan was facing RFK from 3 feet in front!. And there's no other conspirators!  How could that escape detection?

If that was the case with the more high profile JFK case, would that have somehow escaped detection? It would seem impossible to believe!

But honestly, Cliff, as much as I approve your intention, if Alec Baldwin had spoken your script, I don't think anything would have changed the next day. After so many years , people are just agreeing to be dumb, about where the bullets came and went. The more it's been rehashed over the last half century, the less the attention span. The most convincing evidence you can give is new testimony from people, who are now outing themselves or inside knowledge, or of course through the release of new government documents, but that is an avenue I'm starting to lose any hope in. But both types of information are simple and easy to absorb.