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Steve Thomas

When was Oswald first ID'd as a government informant?

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Does anyone know when Oswald was first identified, or rumored to be a government informant?

And I'm not talking about just post-assassination, but pre-assassination as well.

And I'm not talking about just in government circles, but in cuban-exile circles as well.

 

For example, a ship called the Violin I is launched on a commando raid against Cuba in late March, 1963. Their launch pad was going to be the Bahamas. Their leader was a guy named Jerry Buchanan. When they got there, the authorities were waiting. Buchanan was interviewed by his brother, James Buchanan, a reporter for the Pompano Beach Sun Sentinel, "Buchanan (Jerry) said. "_____ went So the boat, where it been there since Saturday morning waiting for us to come in. They knew all about us. "The police came out of the building and said, 'Is your name Buchanan?' They placed both of us under detention.

The News-Herald from Mansfield, Ohio · April 3, 1963 Page 24

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/45297639/

Buchanan knew he's been set up.

Five days after the assassination, a man named Sanchez told James Buchanan that a man who used the name Oswald had tried to get aboard that boat and had been rebuffed by Jerry.

see CD 1020 p. 13. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11416#relPageId=15&tab=page

 

Oswald had been seen at one of the cuban-exile training camps in the New Olreans area. In July, that camp was raided by the FBI and shut down.

Was the name Oswald being circulated by the cuban exiles as an informant for the government prior to JFK's assassination?

 

Steve Thomas

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I think Lee's Mother, Marguerite, made a statement to that effect when she wrote to the State Department while he was in the USSR.  I'll look for a cite...

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Those who were a bit closer to the situation, as in down in New Orleans, feel it got its start with the OSWALD PROJECT in May 1963...

Bringuier throwing a "fake punch"... George Steel Jr, another FBI asset helping him hand out the leaflets...  time spent at 544 Camp... etc.

The entire FPCC episode has to give him away as FPCC and 544 Camp are oxymoronic....  with so much intelligence around that one spot it's hard not to accept he was seen as an asset by early June....

 

As I see it...
DJ

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Carlos Bringuer was voicing those suspicions back in August.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bringuier.htm

Mr. BRINGUIER. And you see, in August 24, 1962,... person from the FBI contacted me here in New Orleans--his name was Warren C. de Brueys. Mr. de Brueys was talking to me in the Thompson Cafeteria,... and he advised me and I quote, "We could infiltrate your organization and find out what you are doing here."

After that, after my conversation with de Brueys, I always was waiting that maybe someone will come to infiltrate my organization from the FBI

Mr. LIEBELER. To summarize your statement, when Oswald came to see you on August 5, (1963)----
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. You were suspicious of him on two different counts?
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. One, that he might possibly have been an infiltrator working for the FBI?
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you were worried about this because of what Agent de Brueys had said to you----
Mr. BRINGUIER. A year ago.
Mr. LIEBELER. Almost a year prior to that time?
Mr. BRINGUIER. Yes, sir.

 

Steve Thomas

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I haven't tracked down an actual letter Marguerite wrote the State Dept yet, but here is an article that discusses her visit:http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/B Disk/Brussell Mae/Item 25.pdf

Here is the relevant passage from that article:

"His mother, Marguerite Oswald started the wheels rolling in January of 1961 when she went to the State Department in Washington. "She told many people there that her son was working for the U.S. government in the USSR and that she wanted him to come home," Miss Brussell said. (Three years later, before the Warren Commission, Mar- , guerite Oswald would tell investigators, "I have as much circumstantial evidence here that Lee was arragent for the • CIA as the Dallas Police have that he shot President Kennedy.") Mrs. Oswald's presence in Washington and her statements "blew Oswald's cover," Miss Brussell believes. "

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

I think Lee's Mother, Marguerite, made a statement to that effect when she wrote to the State Department while he was in the USSR.  I'll look for a cite...

Marguerite was hoping beyond hope, but she never had proof.  Here is something else she said:

Mrs. OSWALD.   ...But my children were never tied to my apron strings.  And I can prove to you, in his defection in 1959, I made the statement that Lee, as an individual, had the right to think and do what he wanted to. They even said he was a Communist.  If that is what he studied, and that is what he wanted to do, I accepted that, because that was his privilege as an individual...
Mr. RANKIN. Are you telling the Commission that your son was part of a conspiracy to assassinate the President? 
Mrs. OSWALD. I am saying that I realize that my son could possibly be part -- yes -- I realize he is a human being and he could possibly be in this, yes, sir. 

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

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The information was that Lee Oswald was actually hired by the FBI; that he was assigned the undercover-agent number 179; that he was on the FBI payroll at two hundred dollars a month starting in September 1962 and that he was still on their payroll the day he was apprehended  in the Texas Theater....

--Gerald Ford, Portrait of the Assassin, p. 14.

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17 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Carlos Bringuer was voicing those suspicions back in August.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bringuier.htm

Mr. BRINGUIER. And you see, in August 24, 1962,... person from the FBI contacted me here in New Orleans--his name was Warren C. de Brueys. Mr. de Brueys was talking to me in the Thompson Cafeteria,... and he advised me and I quote, "We could infiltrate your organization and find out what you are doing here."

After that, after my conversation with de Brueys, I always was waiting that maybe someone will come to infiltrate my organization from the FBI

Mr. LIEBELER. To summarize your statement, when Oswald came to see you on August 5, (1963)----
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. You were suspicious of him on two different counts?
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. One, that he might possibly have been an infiltrator working for the FBI?
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you were worried about this because of what Agent de Brueys had said to you----
Mr. BRINGUIER. A year ago.
Mr. LIEBELER. Almost a year prior to that time?
Mr. BRINGUIER. Yes, sir.

 

Steve Thomas

Warren Commission Hearings and Exhibits (26H738)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142#relPageId=774&tab=page

FBI Interview by SA's Norman W. Propst and Ural E. Horton, Jr. with Mrs. C.L. Connell dated 11/29/63

Mrs. Connell told the Agents that, “Odio further reported to Connell during this conversation (a telephone conversation between Sylvia Odio and Mrs. Connell on 11/28/63) that a call had been made in recent months by a Cuban associate of hers to an unknown source in New Orleans, Louisiana, requesting information on Lee Harvey Oswald. Odio volunteered that information was in turn received from the New Orleans source to the effect that Oswald was considered by that source in New Orleans to be a “double agent”. The source stated Oswald was probably trying to infiltrate the Dallas Cuban refugee group, and that he should not be trusted.”

Steve Thomas

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45 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Warren Commission Hearings and Exhibits (26H738)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142#relPageId=774&tab=page

FBI Interview by SA's Norman W. Propst and Ural E. Horton, Jr. with Mrs. C.L. Connell dated 11/29/63

Mrs. Connell told the Agents that, “Odio further reported to Connell during this conversation (a telephone conversation between Sylvia Odio and Mrs. Connell on 11/28/63) that a call had been made in recent months by a Cuban associate of hers to an unknown source in New Orleans, Louisiana, requesting information on Lee Harvey Oswald. Odio volunteered that information was in turn received from the New Orleans source to the effect that Oswald was considered by that source in New Orleans to be a “double agent”. The source stated Oswald was probably trying to infiltrate the Dallas Cuban refugee group, and that he should not be trusted.”

Steve Thomas

Sounds like BRINGUIER again...

Steve - so you were aware he was an FBI informant? 

Since Bannister was trying to get FBI assets into Cuban groups... it would follow that his movement to New Orleans was the beginning of the Dallas Patsy set-up....  (WCD47 - out of the blue the FBI investigates ARTHUR VALLE and writes reports which say there is no connection between Vallee and Oswald...  while a "nut Marine", VALLEE was not infiltrating and informing on groups....  

I simply do not see how Oswald was not a FBI asset while in New Orleans....   (amazingly thru all this time and careful watching, the FBI does not mention a girlfriend or significant time away from Marina to be with some other woman....  unless someone here feels that Oswald was spying on JVB and Reilly coffee....  {smile}

Why add the negation of a relationship no one suggested to begin with?    https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10448#relPageId=2&tab=page 

img_10448_18_300.png

13 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

I haven't tracked down an actual letter Marguerite wrote the State Dept yet, but here is an article that discusses her visit:http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/B Disk/Brussell Mae/Item 25.pdf

In that article it mentions CIA Doc 931 which = WCD 931 which is HELMS denying Oswald's involvement with anything U-2 while in Atsugi (so what was he doing there?)

"Never believe ANYTHING until it has been officially denied"

img_11327_4_300.png

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35 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Sounds like BRINGUIER again...

 

David,

 

Or her uncle, Augustin Guitart Campuzado. He was with Bringuer at his August, 1963 trial.

Look at this document. It's in the HSCA Subject Files.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=75141#relPageId=2&tab=page

 

Why was a memo on Guitart dated 5/28/63 being cc'd to the Chief, Personnel Security Division?

 

Steve Thomas

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23 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

David,

 

Or her uncle, Augustin Guitart Campuzado. He was with Bringuer at his August, 1963 trial.

 

Augustin Guitart interview (Sylvia Odio;.0swald's literature distribution)

Harold Weisberg 12/212/68

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/P%20Disk/Posner%20Gerald%20Book%20Critique/Chapter%2015/Item%2005.pdf

 

Dr. Guitart considers himself a friend of Bringuier. At the time of the arrest Bringuier phoned him and excitedly told him about the affair, full of indignation. He did not see the literature distribution because he had classes. He went to the trial because he had no classes that day. He wanted to see Oswald and he sort of fortified his friend Bringuier.”

 

Steve Thomas

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15 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Why was a memo on Guitart dated 5/28/63 being cc'd to the Chief, Personnel Security Division?

 

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/GAST, HEINZ WILHELM PAUL_0036.pdf

shows a spot for a cc to PSD Chief...  I think anything related to Personnel related to the CIA gets a mention to the PSD...  They helped with clearances

DJ

 

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1 hour ago, Steve Thomas said:

David,

 

Or her uncle, Augustin Guitart Campuzado. He was with Bringuer at his August, 1963 trial.

 

David,

 

Then again, it might not be Guitart.

FBI Interview by SA's Norman W. Propst and Ural E. Horton, Jr. with Mrs. C.L. Connell dated 11/29/63

Mrs. Connell told the Agents that, “Odio further reported to Connell during this conversation (a telephone conversation between Sylvia Odio and Mrs. Connell on 11/28/63) that a call had been made in recent months by a Cuban associate of hers to an unknown source in New Orleans,

 

Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro was sent to Dallas to establish a chapter of Alpha 66. He established residency on September 6th. Veciana of Alpha 66 meets with Phillips in Dallas allegedly on September 7th. Who really arranged that Veciana/Phillips meeting?

 

When Veciana went back to Miami, did he tell anyone there about having met Lee Harvey Oswald in Dallas?

 

Steve Thomas

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5 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

When Veciana went back to Miami, did he tell anyone there about having met Lee Harvey Oswald in Dallas?

Or upon returning (maybe even before)....  he realizes there's an OSWALD in the Miami area as well ???

Besides, who would he tell?  In the world of spies on spies... the less said the better?

???  :huh:

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