What if RFK had become the CIA head?

[Paz Marverde]

RFK refused the invite by JFK to become the head of the CIA. Sounds interesting to imagine what would have happened if RFK had accepted 

[Kirk Gallaway]

I'll take this on Paz. But personally, I've never heard that RFK was ever considered to be head of the CIA. Maybe Jim can weigh in on this. But I have no doubt  some serious house cleaning would have occurred, which might have saved both their lives, or may have assured both their deaths, which happened anyway in hindsight, so what the hell!

After Dulles's firing, JFK appoints John Mc Cone, which is a placating political decision to ensure continuity after firing one of agency's founding members. Then JFK is continually disappointed with Mc Cone. And finally RFK, after his brother's assassination asks Mc Cone, "did one of your guys do it?" To me JFK was always a politician unlike his brother who was out to get things done and Washington be damned, and almost ended up getting his perfect opportunity,  if not for the fact that he was seen coming from a distance. RFK was almost like the current day Trump, but much more knowledgeable,  adept and not at all, a bungler..

To those here like me, who speculate about CIA and Dulles's  possible hand in the Kennedy Assasination. I listen for nuance in this phone call initiated by LBJ in the company of RFK to Dulles, to ask Dulles to go to Mississipi to represent the administration to look into the missing 3 civil rights workers who were murdered and had their car set on fire.

This is 8 months after the assassination. 2/3rds of it is just between Bobby and Dulles. There are some curious skips in the recording , around 5:00 Dulles asks Bobby about the health of his brother Teddy, who had received a serious injury in a plane accident. Twice later, once to Bobby, and then later to LBJ, Dulles later mentions that he's busy on this commission, which is of course, the Warren Commission.

At 7:00 Dulles asks Bobby why RFK picked him, to which RFK responds, "because I know you". Dulles lets off an uproarious laugh and says, "I've been a little mad at you about this Bay of Pigs book, but I can forget this very easily.I don't stay angry long"". Bobby, "well I'm glad, ".

These are crafty people, unless you think that Dulles has lost it. He certainly seems a little giddy. You don't get get the impression that Bobby really suspects Dulles, but I'm sure he could hide it well , if he does.

https://youtu.be/PDrHizmZlN8?t=22

 

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by Kirk Gallaway

[Robert Harper]

Did you know how they finally found the bodies of the three? Hoover arranged for a gangster Scarpa to go down there and find out. Apparently FBI guys didn't as easily put a gun in a guy's groin and tell him that unless he gave an answer, he'd lose what was touching the gun. Maybe Dulles--used to the efficiency of using mob members--suggested this alternative to Hoover.

[David Andrews]

I believe CIA was floated to Bobby because it was felt that there would be accusations of nepotism had he accepted attorney-general with so little practical legal experience.

[Paz Marverde]

2 hours ago, David Andrews said:

I believe CIA was floated to Bobby because it was felt that there would be accusations of nepotism had he accepted attorney-general with so little practical legal experience.

Bobby answered there would be accusations of nepotism when his brother offered the job

[David Andrews]

Delete, please.

Edited April 3, 2018 by David Andrews

[Paz Marverde]

20 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I've never heard that RFK was ever considered to be head of the CIA

From Robert Kennedy and His Times:

Quote

“The President spoke to me about becoming head of CIA, and I said I didn't want to become head of the CIA and I thought it was a bad idea to be head of CIA, in addition, because I was a Democrat, and brother. " In time they settled upon John McCone

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by Paz Marverde

[Kirk Gallaway]

2 hours ago, Paz Marverde said:

From Robert Kennedy and His Times:

The President spoke to me about becoming head of CIA, and I said I didn't want to become head of the CIA and I thought it was a bad idea to be head of CIA, in addition, because I was a Democrat, and brother. " In time they settled upon John McCone

Oooo, bad mistake!?  Doesn't sound like Bobby is aware of that though, at least at that time. In tone, it certainly sounds like Bobby doesn't suspect Dulles either. 

[Paz Marverde]

17 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Oooo, bad mistake!?  Doesn't sound like Bobby is aware of that though, at least at that time. In tone, it certainly sounds like Bobby doesn't suspect Dulles either. 

Well, Dallas had not happened yet 

[Kirk Gallaway]

4 hours ago, Paz Marverde said:

Well, Dallas had not happened yet 

Paz,

I'm referring to the link I provided with the conversation between Bobby, LBJ and Dulles, and specifically Bobby and Dulles 8 months after the assassination. There's been a lot of discussion from time to time about who RFK suspected killed his brother, and some new information in recent years. By listening to this conversation and dialog, you could easily conclude Bobby didn't suspect Dulles at all.

And for those who think that JFK' s assassination was Dulles getting back for his firing after the Bay of Pigs, there is a dialog at 7:00. Dulles asks Bobby why RFK picked him, to which RFK responds, "because I know you". Dulles lets off an uproarious laugh and says, "I've been a little mad at you about this Bay of Pigs book, but I can forget this very easily.I don't stay angry long"". Bobby, "well I'm glad, ".  To those of us who think Dulles may have had a hand in the assassination, the responses between RFK and Dulles are interesting to speculate about.

 

Edited April 3, 2018 by Kirk Gallaway

[Paz Marverde]

4 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

those of us who think Dulles may have had a hand in the assassination

Yes, I am one of them 

[Rob Couteau]

On 4/4/2018 at 1:46 AM, Kirk Gallaway said:

Dulles asks Bobby why RFK picked him, to which RFK responds, "because I know you".

I had to wince at that, because, knowing what we know now about the evil machinations of Allen Dulles, it seems that Bobby really didn't know the full extent of what Dulles was capable of. Yet, even so, it seems really bizarre that RFK would want to involve Dulles in any project that was of such importance to him after what happened at the Bay of Pigs. Does anyone know what happened after this conversation? Did Dulles accept the job and if so what happened? And I agree that not only did Dulles have a hand in the assassination, he was a central player.

Dulles, on the other hand, certainly seems suspicious, if not incredulous, that RFK would pick him. Dulles's laughter over Bobby's remark speaks volumes.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Rob Couteau

[Rob Couteau]

On 4/1/2018 at 5:53 PM, Paz Marverde said:

RFK refused the invite by JFK to become the head of the CIA

Paz, I recall reading that, at one point, JFK openly remarked that he regretted not appointing RFK to run the CIA instead of the FBI. (Maybe it was after the Bay of Pigs fiasco, once he realized the CIA had tricked him.) 

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

18 minutes ago, Rob Couteau said:

I had to wince at that, because, knowing what we know now about the evil machinations of Allen Dulles, it seems that Bobby really didn't know the full extent of what Dulles was capable of. Yet, even so, it seems really bizarre that RFK would want to involve Dulles in any project that was of such importance to him after what happened at the Bay of Pigs. Does anyone know what happened after this conversation? Did Dulles accept the job and if so what happened? And i agree that not only did Dulles have a hand in the assassination, he was a central player.

Rob, Dulles did accept the job and went down to Mississippi. And as I said, I think Bobby is completely clueless as to Dulles. But we can't know for sure.

[Rob Couteau]

Very interesting audio - thanks for posting it! Although this has no bearing on what Bobby knew about Dulles, I think we also have to keep in mind that all three men were aware they were being recorded, so one has to factor that in when one attempts to decode what's really happening here.