If Oswald Was "Prayer Man" ...

[Thomas Graves]

How could [EDIT ALERT: the bad guys and gals] reasonably expect to pull off "The Coverup" if they knew [EDIT ALERT: Oswald] might be captured on film, watching the motorcade?

"It didn't matter to them because they planned for him to be murdered-by-cop in about an hour, anyway" ???

What if good footage of Oswald-in-the-entryway emerged after he'd been put six feet under?

Why didn't the bad guys confiscate the films of Altgens, Wiegman, Couch, Darnell, ... ?  (Yes, I know PM isn't visible in Altgens 6, but he could have been.)

--  TG

Tangential Questions:  Was Dr Pepper available in the 2nd floor lunchroom's "coke-cola" (sic) machine, or only in the DP Machine on the 1st floor, next to the white fridge?

Was getting change for the DP Machine on the first floor Oswald's only reason for going to the 2nd floor practically every day during lunch time?

(Is it true that Dr Pepper was Oswald's favorite coke-cola?  If so, was the DP Machine mysteriously empty that day, or maybe even "jammed"?)

Edited April 11, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Sandy Larsen]

That's a good question.

I believe that the MC trip was designed by CIA plotters to implicate Cuba and Russia in the assassination plot. It's possible that Oswald was set up as the liaison between them and an alleged America-based hit team. (Cuban exiles? Mafia?) Oswald wasn't set up as a hit man. In fact he may have been instructed by his handler to be out on the steps taking photos.

However, President Johnson didn't bite. He wanted a lone gunman and that is what made Oswald the alleged killer in the cover-up.

 

[Thomas Graves]

59 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

That's a good question.

I believe that the MC trip was designed by CIA plotters to implicate Cuba and Russia in the assassination plot. It's possible that Oswald was set up as the liaison between them and an alleged America-based hit team. (Cuban exiles? Mafia?) Oswald wasn't set up as a hit man. In fact he may have been instructed by his handler to be out on the steps taking photos.

However, President Johnson didn't bite. He wanted a lone gunman and that is what made Oswald the alleged killer in the cover-up.

 

 

Sandy,

So, it didn't matter to them that Oswald was kinda wandering around outside during the motorcade?

--  TG

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[James DiEugenio]

Isn't the real question this:  Why did it take so long for anyone to pick up on this?

Did the WC? No they did not.

Did the HSCA?  No they did not.

In fact, before Sean Murphy went after the issue at Lancer and then here, only one man in the entire critical community in over forty years ever seriously discussed the whole central point.  He is mentioned very briefly in Garrison's files and Bart has a section at his web site devoted to him.

So to me, its not the old, almost antique --well why did they not commit he perfect crime complaint--its the more sagacious:  You don't need to commit a perfect crime if you control the cover up.  And that is clearly what happened.

I mean what is more of a dead giveaway that the Girl in the Polka Dot Dress in the RFK case.  What happened?  They made her disappear.  Literally.

Anyone who studies these cases at any length or depth comprehends that very early.

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Thomas Graves said:

So, it didn't matter to [the plotters] that Oswald was kinda wandering around outside during the motorcade?

Certainly the plotters preferred to constrain Oswald's movements, but also would have been concerned he'd be tipped off to their intents had they made specific, suspicious, demands. During the very time the President of the United States is passing by.

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by Sandy Larsen

[James DiEugenio]

Can TG pinpoint where Oswald was "wandering around outside during the motorcade"?

[Sandy Larsen]

42 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

In fact, before Sean Murphy went after the issue at Lancer and then here, only one man in the entire critical community in over forty years ever seriously discussed the whole central point.  He is mentioned very briefly in Garrison's files and Bart has a section at his web site devoted to him.

 

Who is that person, Jim?

 

[James DiEugenio]

This is him, and only Bart Kamp has ever given him the credit he should have:

http://www.prayer-man.com/richard-bernabei/

 

I recalled his name mentioned very briefly in Garrisons' files many years ago.  And I asked Greg Parker about him, except i had the spelling of his name wrong. And Greg told me that Bart has a section on his site devoted to him.

In retrospect, its utterly amazing that only Richard Bernabei ever brought up the subject at any length or with any gravitas before Sean Murphy did.  That shows you how unmethodical and haphazard the inquiry was in this case by the FBI and the WC.  Or if you want to be cynical, how beautifully  constructed the cover up was.

Edited April 5, 2018 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

And BTW, as Bart notes in his comments on Bernabei's work, he was working with a more limited database than what Sean Murphy had.

The Darnell film, which Richard  did not have, has a better image of the PM figure than Wiegman, and the other exhibits Richard was working from.

He is one of those lonely figures, like Paris Flammonde, who never got the credit he deserved considering the quality of work he did.

[Jason Ward]

4 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

How could they reasonably expect to pull off "The Coverup" if they knew he might be captured on film, watching the motorcade?

"It didn't matter to them because they planned for him to be murdered-by-cop in about an hour, anyway" ???

What if good footage of Oswald-in-the-entryway emerged after he'd been put six feet under?

Why didn't the bad guys confiscate the films of Altgens, Wiegman, Couch, Darnell, ... ?  (Yes, I know PM isn't visible in Altgens 6, but he could have been.)

--  TG

 

TG

1. The pre-assassination Oswald so obviously sheep dipped to look like a Castro-loving or even Castro-controlled conspiratorial Communist is at odds with the post-assassination Lone Nut - who more closely resembles the mentally disturbed social outcast John Hinckley Jr.   The two pictures of Oswald do not match up.   Why?

2. Those close to JFK can kill him with then-available methods that look like a heart attack, drug overdose, or brain aneurysm.   No evidence, no witnesses.   They can also remove him from office politically with real or manufactured evidence.  The sloppy circus stunt in Dealey Plaza that is one lucky shot away from failure is a colossal gamble that only the desperate would ever make, the desperate who have no close access and no easier way to kill Kennedy.  Imo.

3. There were witnesses and films and clues like prayer man all over the place because the authors of the assassination wanted the public to find a conspiracy...a conspiracy that led straight to Castro.

 

Jason

[Thomas Graves]

57 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Can TG pinpoint where Oswald was "wandering around outside during the motorcade"?

James,

You mean they actually had him on some kind of leash out there, you know, with one foot on the top step, and either the toe of his other one balanced on the landing, or with his left leg splayed way back and his knee bent awkwardly so he could get that dang foot flat-like on that darned landing, as PM is portrayed in both of them there ways in Andrej's models?

--  TG

Edited April 5, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Michael Clark]

8 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

TG

1. The pre-assassination Oswald so obviously sheep dipped to look like a Castro-loving or even Castro-controlled conspiratorial Communist is at odds with the post-assassination Lone Nut - 

......

 

Jason

I have been recently-convinced that LHO was not sheep-dipped at all.

He was infiltrating Pro-Castro groups (the FPCC), as a CIA operative, under David Atlee Phillips, via James McCord Jr.. As David Bolan pointed-out recently, McCord was working for Phillips. Phillips was the Chief of Western Hemisphere operations and, under him, McCord directed a counter intelligence program against the FPCC.

Oswald was working for Phillips, through McCord. Oswald was a CIA agent.

[Michael Clark]

7 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

James,

You mean they actually had him on some kind of leash out there, you know, with one foot on the top step, and either the toe of his other one balanced on the landing, or with his left leg splayed way back and his knee bent awkwardly so he could get that dang foot flat-like on that darned landing, as PM is portrayed in both of them there ways in Andrej's models?

--  TG

Silliness, conjecture, ridicule, and making no assertions or sense, are you?

[James DiEugenio]

Why do you do this all the time TG?

You come out with a deliberate provocation.  Someone calls you on it and then you back away from it.

You said, and anyone can see it,

So, it didn't matter to them that Oswald was kinda wandering around outside during the motorcade? 

He was not even close to wandering around outside by any definition of the phrase.  If PM is Oswald he is only visible for a few seconds and in the shade.

But now that you are called on that, you retreat and say, "Oh, they had him on a short leash."

My reply is the same as above: why did no one ever bring this extremely important subject up for literally decades?  The point being, that if PM is LHO, like the hole in the rear of Kennedy's skull, it is a real giveaway as to what happened. But did the WC deal with the latter?  The HSCA only dealt with it to dispose of it.

That is the way these cases work, but apparently you are not aware of that are you?

Edited April 5, 2018 by James DiEugenio

[Thomas Graves]

On 4/5/2018 at 4:19 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Why do you do this all the time TG?

You come out with a deliberate provocation.  Someone calls you on it and then you back away from it.

You said, and anyone can see it,

So, it didn't matter to them that Oswald was kinda wandering around outside during the motorcade? 

He was not even close to wandering around outside by any definition of the phrase.  If PM is Oswald he is only visible for a few seconds and in the shade.

But now that you are called on that, you retreat and say, "Oh, they had him on a short leash."

My reply is the same as above, why did no one ever bring this extremely important subject up for literally decades.  The point being, that like the hole in the rear of Kennedy's skull, it is a real giveaway as to what happened. But did the WC deal with it?  The HSCA only dealt with it to dispose of it.

That is the way these cases work, but apparently you do not know that do you?

 

James,

It does seem to me that you ARE overreacting just a tad bit, here.

You didn't REALLY think I meant it literally when I said "wandering around" (EDIT: actually "KINDA wandering around," -- what happened to my "kinda," James?), now did you?  You know, like a dog that has somehow just gotten out of the back yard?

Other members, even ... gasp ... "the CIA did it, and we live in a Deep-Deep State!" members have been known to use a bit of descriptive hyperbole here from time-to-time, haven't they?  James?

So, what's wrong with old TG doing it occasionally, too, James?

Does my use of the phrase "EDIT: KINDA wandering around" here really make that much difference, anyway?  I mean, when you think about it, James?

Do you think Oswald (if he really WAS "Prayer Man") went out there on the landing all on his own, and could even have walked around the building looking for the "roach coach" food truck if he'd wanted to, or do you think he had to ask permission from the bad guys to sneak out there and stand, implausibly, with one foot on the top step and the other on the landing, you know, so he wouldn't "look too tall" compared to Frazier later on?

--  TG

 

PS  Off subject now, but you chided me on my Mitrokhin thread a couple of weeks ago by saying, in so many words, that Alger Hiss wasn't spying for the Soviets, and that I was very ignorant to say that he was.  I then informed you that our very own patron, John Simkin, begs to differ with you on Hiss's loyalties, but I never heard back from you on that, did I.

Would you care to respond to that here, or shall I bump my aforementioned Mitrokhin thread?  You know, so we can really "get into" it, James?

EDIT:  Never mind, James, rather than risk derailing my own thread, I'll just "bump" the Mitrokhin thread, and maybe I'll [EDIT: SEE] you over there? 

James?

 

Edited May 9, 2018 by Thomas Graves