If Oswald Was "Prayer Man" ...

[Mark Knight]

8 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

James,

It seems to me that you're overreacting a bit, here.

You didn't really think I was serious when I said "wandering around" you know, like a dog that has somehow just gotten out of the back yard, now do you, James?

Other members, even ... gasp ... "the CIA did it, and we live in a Deep-Deep State!" members have been known to use a bit of descriptive hyperbole here from time-to-time, haven't they?  James?

So, what's wrong with old TG doing it occasionally, too, James?

Does my use of the phrase "wandering around" here really make that much difference, anyway?  I mean, when you think about it.  James?

Do you think Oswald (if he really WAS "Prayer Man") went out there on the landing all on his own, and could even have walked around the building looking for the "roach coach" food truck if he'd wanted to, or do you think he had to ask permission from the bad guys to sneak out there and stand, implausibly, with one foot on the top step and the other on the landing, you know, so he wouldn't "look too tall" compared to Frazier later on?

--  TG

 

PS  Off subject now, but you chided me on my Mitrokhin thread a couple of weeks ago by saying, in so many words, that Alger Hiss wasn't spying for the Soviets, and that I was rather ignorant to say that he was.  I then informed you that our very own patron, John Simkin, begs to differ wit you oo Hiss.

Would you like to respond to that here, or shall I bump my aforementioned Mitrokhin thread, you know, so we can really "get into" it?  James

I suggest you NOT hijack this thread, even if you started the thread, and instead take it to the thread that pertains to the topic. I should be surprised you asked, but I'm not. As long as you remain center stage, you apparently don't care about the actual discussion around you. 

[Thomas Graves]

13 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

I suggest you NOT hijack this thread, even if you started the thread, and instead take it to the thread that pertains to the topic. I should be surprised you asked, but I'm not. As long as you remain center stage, you apparently don't care about the actual discussion around you. 

 

Mark,

Sorry, but which thread is that? 

Could you please post a "link" to it here?

(I do hope that it's not one of those closed ones.)

 

Thank you,

--  TG

 

PS  You're surprised that I asked what, Mark?  The question that's incorporated in the title of this thread??

 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

4 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

Silliness, conjecture, ridicule, and making no assertions or sense, are you?

 

Michael,

 

I'm not trying to derail my own thread, now, but have you taken a good hard look at the two different ways Andrej has Prayer Man standing, with one foot on the top step, and the other foot on the landing, in his models?

Shall you and I continue this conversation on another of my threads, "Some Questions For Andrej About Prayer Man," or some such thing?

In an attempt to get THIS thread "back on track," do you have any thoughts, Michael, as to why the bad guys allowed Oswald to be photographed outside the building like that during the motorcade?

Thank you,

--  TG

 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Mark Knight]

15 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

 

Mark,

Sorry, but which thread is that? 

Could you please post a "link" to it here?

(I do hope that it's not one of those closed ones.)

 

Thank you,

--  TG

 

PS  You're surprised that I asked what, Mark?  The question that's incorporated in the title of this thread??

 

1.

1. There's the thread for the Mitrokhin discussion.

2. I'm surprised you asked about moving the off-topic discussion to a thread where it would be on-topic. To my way of thinking, that's a no- brainer.

3. I made no reference to your question in the title of the thread.

And 4. You've certainly proved my point about your posts being about you remaining the center of attention, rather than seriously discussing the JFK assassination. (In case you forgot, that's why most of the rest of us are here...the discussion of the JFK assassination [so you don't have to ask what the forum is about]).

[Thomas Graves]

3 hours ago, Mark Knight said:

1.

There's the thread for the Mitrokhin discussion.

2. I'm surprised you asked about moving the off-topic discussion to a thread where it would be on-topic. To my way of thinking, that's a no- brained.

3. I made no reference to your question in the title of the thread.

And 4. You've certainly proved my point about your posts being about you remaining the center of attention, rather than seriously discussing the JFK assassination. (In case you forgot, that's why most of the rest of us are here...the discussion of the JFK assassination [so you don't have to ask what the forum is about]).

 

Mark,

Thanks for the "plug," but my intention in starting THIS thread was to try to elicit some theories as to why and how the bad guys let Oswald "kinda wander around" outside the building like that, and be captured on film doing so.

Thoughts?

 

--  TG

 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[James DiEugenio]

That is not why you started the thread.

Because the answer to that is that it did not matter, did it?

So your underlying idea, which is the basis for every single thread you start, that somehow it could not really be the Deep State behind all this, it simply ridiculous on its face, to everyone but you.

Because only an investigation that was rigged from the start would overlook something that important in the first place.

But you have to completely ignored that fact to promote your Russian translator did it non starter.

[Mark Knight]

To address your question...

If Oswald was part of the plot-- knowingly or unknowingly-- I'm of the opinion that Oswald was not a man who was easy to micromanage. In my opinion, his movements had to seem as though they were of his own volition...at least in his own mind, In my opinion, he would only follow directions if he was in 100% in agreement with the plot. If he wasn't part of the plot, his movements were not controlled by anyone (but himself).

Seems like a simple concept to me.

[Thomas Graves]

6 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

To address your question...

If Oswald was part of the plot-- knowingly or unknowingly-- I'm of the opinion that Oswald was not a man who was easy to micromanage. In my opinion, his movements had to seem as though they were of his own volition...at least in his own mind, In my opinion, he would only follow directions if he was in 100% in agreement with the plot. If he wasn't part of the plot, his movements were not controlled by anyone (but himself).

Seems like a simple concept to me.

Mark,

Reasonable and well-spoken.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

--  TG

[Michael Clark]

7 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

That is not why you started the thread.

Because the answer to that is that it did not matter, did it?

So your underlying idea, which is the basis for every single thread you start, that somehow it could not really be the Deep State behind all this, it simply ridiculous on its face, to everyone but you.

Because only an investigation that was rigged from the start would overlook something that important in the first place.

But you have to completely ignored that fact to promote your Russian translator did it non starter.

Moreover, it is a question that could have, should have and has been asked many times as a relavent part of another thread.

As it stands, this thread serves as one of many that can be used, bounced, with just a "Buped" "edited" or addressed to someone (" bumped for Paul""), and displace other threads, control the front page, and keep Tommy's mug hanging around and in everyone's face. Most importantly, and unfortunately, this displaces a lot of worthwhile research the multiple threads allow Tommy to do this and, technically, obey the "24 hour" rule.

I am not making an assertion of Tommy's motivations, because that is against the rules. Yet, that is ultimately what his actions serve to to.

PS. Prayer man, Oswald, might have been exactly where he was supposed to be, for reasons unknown.

[Thomas Graves]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

That is not why you started the thread.

Because the answer to that is that it did not matter, did it?

So your underlying idea, which is the basis for every single thread you start, that somehow it could not really be the Deep State behind all this, it simply ridiculous on its face, to everyone but you.

Because only an investigation that was rigged from the start would overlook something that important in the first place.

But you have to completely ignored that fact to promote your Russian translator did it non starter.

 

Well, James,

 

I guess you've really "caught me out" this time, haven't you.

As you know, I don't believe that "Prayer Man" was 5' 9.5" Oswald (or any other man) at all, but rather, a shorter-than- 5' 9.5" (and "heavyset," according to Frazier's Garrison Trial testimony) TSBD employee by the name of ... gasp ... Sarah Stanton.

Regardless, while I was tooling around the Forum at an UNGODLY hour this morning, I came upon an excellent old post by Lance Payette on an interminably long thread (the title of which escapes me now) in which he observed that the bad guys wouldn't have allowed Oswald to "kinda wander around" (my words, James) like that and be captured on film during the shooting.  And (yes, I know, Michael) then Lance posited the theory that unwitting LHO wasn't included in the plot per se, but that he was used, almost by happenstance (because he WAS *there* and he HAD defected to the USSR, you know), in the coverup, and that it was probably just a local D.P.D. deal, ... and ... well ... James, I was sort of wondering what YOU and the legions of people who THINK like you THOUGHT about that sort of thing.

James?

 

--  TG

 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[James DiEugenio]

I can tell you right now it is not Sarah Stanton.

 

And that is all I am going to say.  Period.  Adios.

Edited April 6, 2018 by James DiEugenio

[Thomas Graves]

4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

I can tell you right now it is not Sarah Stanton.

 

And that is all I am going to say.  Period.  Adios.

 

James,

 

Thanks, but how do you know that?

Can you back up your belief with verifiable evidence, circumstantial or otherwise?

Didn't you say about a month ago on this forum that you think PM might not be Oswald?

Question:  If neither Oswald nor Stanton, who then?

A stranger from the street?

 

--  TG

 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Ron Bulman]

4 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

 

James,

It does seem to me that you ARE overreacting just a tad bit, here.

You didn't REALLY think I meant it literally when I said "wandering around" (actually "KINDA wandering around," -- what happened to my "kinda," James?), now did you?  You know, like a dog that has somehow just gotten out of the back yard?

Other members, even ... gasp ... "the CIA did it, and we live in a Deep-Deep State!" members have been known to use a bit of descriptive hyperbole here from time-to-time, haven't they?  James?

So, what's wrong with old TG doing it occasionally, too, James?

Does my use of the phrase "wandering around" here really make that much difference, anyway?  I mean, when you think about it, James?

Do you think Oswald (if he really WAS "Prayer Man") went out there on the landing all on his own, and could even have walked around the building looking for the "roach coach" food truck if he'd wanted to, or do you think he had to ask permission from the bad guys to sneak out there and stand, implausibly, with one foot on the top step and the other on the landing, you know, so he wouldn't "look too tall" compared to Frazier later on?

--  TG

 

PS  Off subject now, but you chided me on my Mitrokhin thread a couple of weeks ago by saying, in so many words, that Alger Hiss wasn't spying for the Soviets, and that I was rather ignorant to say that he was.  I then informed you that our very own patron, John Simkin, begs to differ with you on Hiss's loyalties, but I never heard back from you on that, did I.

Would you care to respond to that here, or shall I bump my aforementioned Mitrokhin thread?  You know, so we can really "get into" it, James?

EDIT:  Never mind, James, rather than risk derailing my own thread, I'll just "bump" the Mitrokhin thread, and maybe I'll she you over there? 

James?

 

She...ep you over there?  bump that mitrokian fellah?  Nahh Thomas, why not stay right here and sort it all out?  

[Thomas Graves]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

She...ep you over there?  bump that mitrokian fellah?  Nahh Thomas, why not stay right here and sort it all out?  

 

Nah, Ron. 

 

I'll probably point out some things and/or reiterate some things to James (and Dawn and Don) on it (the Mitrokhin thread) tomorrow, and hope that James replies. 

Because I really do enjoy debating him.

But while you're here, would you care to express your opinion as to why, if Oswald was "Prayer Man," the bad guys let him kinda wander around like that while the shooting was going on?

 

Thanks,

--  TG

 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Cory Santos]

Well in taking this question with some thought, the bad guys (why do you assume they were just guys?) would have had a problem. . .not just with letting him outside during the parade, but making sure he got to the Book Depository unless. . .  there were other fall guys there that day.  Were there back up plans? 

Clearly, if there was a conspiracy, LHO was doing his own thing.  He left the book depository, left the bus for a taxi, failed to get picked up by the two officers at the boarding house, and then the whole Tippit event.  If there was a conspiracy, he clearly was a rogue part of it as they did not have control of him.

See your thought is if they knew LHO was the patsy, then they are stuck with the shot from behind, etc.  If JFK makes it out by some chance, they cannot change enough of the evidence to fit the shot from behind.  So, they would have needed other people to pin it on. 

But, consider this, if it was only him they chose, they would have had to make sure he arrived to work that day.  Therefore, they needed to make sure they had control of him the day and night before and the subsequent morning of the assassination.  So we would have to look at where he was, who was driving him to work, etc.

But, your thought does disprove a conspiracy.

Maybe LHO was loyal, did what he was told, but that morning, after leaving the 6th floor-went downstairs to the front steps before the assassination.  Maybe prior to the shooting he knew something was not right and hoped to gain an alibi- sounds kind of like another story, i.e. Richard Case Nagell.

Maybe, prayer man is not LHO.

We know he was on the 2nd floor at least when Baker saw him.

So you are trying to suggest that those that feel he is prayer man have made an illogical conclusion because it makes no sense if it was tight knit conspiracy.

The problem is you are limiting the scope and consideration of the conspiracy.

If there was a conspiracy in Dallas, it was certainly not hastily put together by a few friends.  It was a well coordinated action which would have had back up plans.

These plans would have allowed for more than one area of action, would have allowed for other fall guys.  Remember, so many people seemed to want an alibi that day.  Some people were out of the country or allegedly fishing with a plane waiting for example.

So, if he was prayer man, still there could be a conspiracy, LHO could have gone rogue seeking the alibi so many others apparently had.  If he was not prayer man, so what?  It does not prove he was on the 6th floor shooting.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Cory Santos