General Walker - for the rest of us

[Cory Santos]

6 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Ty,

 

"Oswald killed Dallas Police Patrolman, J.D. Tippit approximately 45 minutes after the assassination. This conclusion upholds the finding that Oswald fired the shots which killed President Kennedy and wounded Governor Connally..."

 

Warren Report. p. 20.

What's good for the goose....

 

Ummmm..... I think I'll turn this one over to Cory.

 

Steve Thomas

When you are prosecuting a defendant, you have to control the picture painted of him.

Steve, you are correct. 

The W.C. had to instill subliminally in the mind of everyone reading that LHO was capable of such a horrific act. 

The Tippit shooting did two things.  1) it gave LHO the appearance of a killer but 2) was a problem because I do not think the shooting was meant to happen as it did.

I find it so so strange in reading Deputy Baker's testimony of how he went into the DBD and saw LHO on the second floor.  What a strange coincidence indeed and perhaps it was, but I find it very strange.  Everyone is running to the Grassy Knoll and he goes into the DBD.

So they have to show this pattern of LHO being a killer, because it puts in the jurors mind-that being the American public-that this is a person that could perform this act without any issue.  Making him the Walker shooter does that along with Tippit.

My question, if I was writing a book-which I am not- I would go look at all the Walker shooting documents very carefully, if it was 30 years ago I would talk to people.

I think this question of how LHO became the Walker shooter is very important.

I doubt that it is merely a strange coincidence.

But then again . . .

Mr. Caddy, did General Walker have any connection or knowledge of UFO's ?

[Thomas Graves]

16 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Paul, You can't seem to resist this cycle of feeding trolls and then complaining of their treatment.

I saw your response to their thread last night, and my first thought was " Paul's getting sucked in again". Which is the only circumstance by which I'd read their thread. And so I read your post. I honestly thought it was brilliant! You were very eloquent! Jason's work reminds me of the Warren Report, he comes up with some interesting leads but he doesn't follow them up because it doesn't fit in with his predetermined theory. Oh well!

Your post would have been a great parting shot, though I knew it wouldn't be.  The fact that they didn't respond I'm sure was very frustrating. But as Michael and Mark alluded to, isn't that the result we've wanted all along? Maybe I'm just speaking for myself. Can't there be isolated pockets of ignorance, by that I mean to "ignore"  or "mutual indifference". They found each other, who are we to judge? The more energy they expend toward one another and concocting their theories, the less they spend on us. I think you have to recognize an ideal world, when you're lucky enough to stumble into one.

Now we just have to find a mate for Tommy!  Ha ha! Just kidding Tommy.

 

Kirk,

 

Are you sure? 

 

That you're just kidding, I mean?

 

--  TG

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

21 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

Paul, Trejo and Ward are not involved in a debate. Trejo has publicly placed a number of people on "ignore" including yourself and Steve Thomas. That says a great deal right there. Ward has done the same. 

They are not here to debate. Ward, especially, has said as much. I am not going to look for his exact statement, but he said (paraquote) "I don't debate,  I post evidence"

Well, this happens to be a debate forum. In fact, all these threads are not even called threads, they are called "Debates".

Their thread, their Patty-Cake game, does not belong here. It belongs in the research threads section.

Ward is interesting. He touts his pursuit of facts and evidence, but he shacks-up with the greatest offender of honesty and integrity, Paul Trejo. Trejo has exhausted researchers and members who have given-up wasting their time by documenting his purveying of falsehoods. They just let him run now. My last effort was at the beginning of their recent Patty-cake session, responding to Trejo's Codswallop about George DeM, his wife, and their experience with Marina, LHO and the gun. I'll do it again when I get fired-up, but I don't want to run afoul of the moderators by trailing him. Besides it's just too much work, and requires too many farm implements to keep at the ready.

 

"Ward is interesting. He touts his pursuit of facts and evidence, but he shacks-up with the greatest offender of honesty and integrity, Paul Trejo. Trejo has exhausted researchers and members who have given-up wasting their time by documenting his purveying of falsehoods."  -- Michael Clark 4/10/18

 

Michael,

 

As you may have noticed since you joined the Forum about a year-and-a-quarter ago and started digging through some of the older threads and posts here, I'm not a big fan of Paul Trejo.

However, for the life of me I can't understand why the moderators allow you to impugn the character (isn't that against The Rules?) of another member the way you have done Paul's, as referenced in the above excerpt from your recent post.

 

Maybe they just haven't seen it yet?

 

--  TG 

 

EDIT ALERT:  I mean, my calling him "Word Twister" back in the day was bad enough, right?

 

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Jeff Carter]

In my opinion, Oswald came directly into what might be described as a fascist milieu in Dallas circa March 1963. This may have led to involvement with the fake assassination attempt, but also may have led to the connection with Banister in New Orleans. The FPCC operation began while Oswald was still in Dallas (mid-April).  The record seems to indicate that the specific move to set up Oswald as a patsy began circa September 1963. I suspect that some of the support for this latter project came from this fascist milieu in Dallas. (i.e. in my opinion Oswald had interacted back in the spring with some of the people who later helped frame him). 

It's worthwhile looking at Russell's Nagell book Chapter 13 "The Attack On General Walker", which indicates Walker had heard, long after 1963, that Oswald had been connected with Larrie Schmidt in March 1963. Walker also tells Russell (this was in 1976) that the German newspaper was interested only if Oswald was a communist - i.e. the Oswald shot at Walker angle was introduced by the newspaper, not Walker. Although, if the shooting attempt never came up during that conversation,  how a reporter several hours later knew to ask that question to Jesse Curry is quite mysterious.

[Paul Brancato]

2 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

In my opinion, Oswald came directly into what might be described as a fascist milieu in Dallas circa March 1963. This may have led to involvement with the fake assassination attempt, but also may have led to the connection with Banister in New Orleans. The FPCC operation began while Oswald was still in Dallas (mid-April).  The record seems to indicate that the specific move to set up Oswald as a patsy began circa September 1963. I suspect that some of the support for this latter project came from this fascist milieu in Dallas. (i.e. in my opinion Oswald had interacted back in the spring with some of the people who later helped frame him). 

It's worthwhile looking at Russell's Nagell book Chapter 13 "The Attack On General Walker", which indicates Walker had heard, long after 1963, that Oswald had been connected with Larrie Schmidt in March 1963. Walker also tells Russell (this was in 1976) that the German newspaper was interested only if Oswald was a communist - i.e. the Oswald shot at Walker angle was introduced by the newspaper, not Walker. Although, if the shooting attempt never came up during that conversation,  how a reporter several hours later knew to ask that question to Jesse Curry is quite mysterious.

 Don’t you think it’s telling that the National Zeitung story claimed that RFK had the DPD release Oswald on the night of the Walker shooting? 

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

8 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

 

Kirk,

 

Are you sure? 

 

That you're just kidding, I mean?

 

--  TG

 

I wish finding a soulmate (if only for purposes of sharing mutual viewpoints about the JFKA) for everyone! Including everybody on this forum!

My only fear Tommy,  is that when you finally find that special someone. You'll soon grow tired of him (or her)and leave the peace of that cloistered affinity that Paul T. and Jason have weathered such trials to build. And I want more  for you than that, Tommy.

[Mervyn Hagger]

Lots and lots of "in my opinion", coupled with a lot of topic guessing, but nothing about the one and half pages that Walker wrote for the Arizona Republic in 1961.

[Mervyn Hagger]

9 hours ago, Cory Santos said:

 Mervyn, what Jim says  is what I was getting at.

Where is the evidence Oswald was arrested or a suspect in the Walker shooting prior to the assassination?

I have never seen any.  If there is any, show it.  Otherwise, it is all speculation.

More importantly, as a defense attorney, it looks like LHO is being tied to it merely to prove he shot JFK.  If he shot at one person, he can shoot at another.

 

... then there is Walker in 1961 using one and half pages of the Arizona Republic to point his finger at CIA.

[Thomas Graves]

34 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I wish finding a soulmate (if only for purposes of sharing mutual viewpoints about the JFKA) for everyone! Including everybody on this forum!

My only fear Tommy,  is that when you finally find that special someone. You'll soon grow tired of him (or her)and leave the peace of that cloistered affinity that Paul T. and Jason have weathered such trials to build. And I want more  for you than that, Tommy.

 

My, how sweet of you, Kirk.

What are you doing Saturday night?

Gonna prove the evil, evil CIA killed JFK?

 

--  TG

 

Edited April 12, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Brancato]

6 hours ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

... then there is Walker in 1961 using one and half pages of the Arizona Republic to point his finger at CIA.

Is there a way you could post a link to this article?

[Jim Hargrove]

6 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Gonna prove the evil, evil CIA killed JFK?

I think so, and so do many others.

Many in the CIA were still bitter about the Bay of Pigs.  David Atlee Phillips and others in the Agency did everything in their power to blame the assassination on Castro and thereby provoke a U.S. invasion of the island nation. According to CIA accountant James Wilcott, the "Oswald Project" was a creation of the CIA and it's cryptonym was RX-ZIM. In weeks prior to the assassination, the war between the Kennedy Administration and the CIA had even spilled into U.S. daily newspapers.  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Washington Daily News, Wednesday, October 2, 1963, p.3

'SPOOKS' MAKE LIFE MISERABLE FOR AMBASSADOR LODGE

'Arrogant' CIA Disobeys Orders in Viet Nam

By Richard T. Starnes

SAIGON, Oct.2 - The story of the Central Intelligence Agency's role in South Viet Nam is a dismal chronicle of bureaucratic arrogance, obstinate disregard of orders, and unrestrained thirst for power.

Twice the CIA flatly refused to carry out instructions from Ambassador Henry Cabot Lodge, according to a high United States source here.

In one of these instances the CIA frustrated a plan of action Mr. Lodge brought with him from Washington because the agency disagreed with it.

This led to a dramatic confrontation between Mr. Lodge and John Richardson, chief of the huge CIA apparatus here. Mr. Lodge failed to move Mr. Richardson, and the dispute was bucked back to Washington. Secretary of State Dean Rusk and CIA Chief John A. McCone were unable to resolve the conflict, and the matter is now reported to be awaiting settlement by President Kennedy.

It is one of the developments expected to be covered in Defense Secretary Robert McNamara's report to Mr. Kennedy.

Others Critical, Too

Other American agencies here are incredibly bitter about the CIA.

"If the United States ever experiences a 'Seven Days in May' it will come from the CIA, and not from the Pentagon," one U.S. official commented caustically.

("Seven Days in May" is a fictional account of an attempted military coup to take over the U.S. Government.)

CIA "spooks" (a universal term for secret agents here) have penetrated every branch of the American community in Saigon, until non-spook Americans here almost seem to be suffering a CIA psychosis.

An American field officer with a distinguished combat career speaks angrily about "that man at headquarters in Saigon wearing a colonel's uniform." He means the man is a CIA agent, and he can't understand what he is doing at U.S. military headquarters here, unless it is spying on other Americans.

Another American officer, talking about the CIA, acidly commented: "You'd think they'd have learned something from Cuba but apparently they didn't."

Few Know CIA Strength

Few people other than Mr. Richardson and his close aides know the actual CIA strength here, but a widely used figure is 600. Many are clandestine agents known only to a few of their fellow spooks.

Even Mr. Richardson is a man about whom it is difficult to learn much in Saigon. He is said to be a former OSS officer, and to have served with distinction in the CIA in the Philippines.

A surprising number of the spooks are known to be involved in their ghostly trade and some make no secret of it.

"There are a number of spooks in the U.S. Information Service, in the U.S. Operations mission, in every aspect of American official and commercial life here, " one official - presumably a non-spook - said.

"They represent a tremendous power and total unaccountability to anyone," he added.

Coupled with the ubiquitous secret police of Ngo Dinh Nhu, a surfeit of spooks has given Saigon an oppressive police state atmosphere.

The Nhu-Richardson relationship is a subject of lively speculation. The CIA continues to pay the special forces which conducted brutal raids on Buddhist temples last Aug. 21, altho in fairness it should be pointed out that the CIA is paying these goons for the war against communist guerillas, not Buddhist bonzes (priests).

Hand Over Millions

Nevertheless, on the first of every month, the CIA dutifully hands over a quarter million American dollars to pay these special forces.

Whatever else it buys, it doesn't buy any solid information on what the special forces are up to. The Aug. 21 raids caught top U.S. officials here and in Washington flat-footed.

Nhu ordered the special forces to crush the Buddhist priests, but the CIA wasn't let in on the secret. (Some CIA button men now say they warned their superiors what was coming up, but in any event the warning of harsh repression was never passed to top officials here or in Washington.)

Consequently, Washington reacted unsurely to the crisis. Top officials here and at home were outraged at the news the CIA was paying the temple raiders, but the CIA continued the payments.

It may not be a direct subsidy for a religious war against the country's Buddhist majority, but it comes close to that.

And for every State Department aide here who will tell you, "Dammit, the CIA is supposed to gather information, not make policy, but policy-making is what they're doing here," there are military officers who scream over the way the spooks dabble in military operations.

A Typical Example

For example, highly trained trail watchers are an important part of the effort to end Viet Cong infiltration from across the Laos and Cambodia borders. But if the trailer watchers spot incoming Viet Congs, they report it to the CIA in Saigon, and in the fullness of time, the spooks may tell the military.

One very high American official here, a man who has spent much of his life in the service of democracy, likened the CIA's growth to a malignancy, and added he was not sure even the White House could control it any longer.

Unquestionably Mr. McNamara and Gen. Maxwell Taylor both got an earful from people who are beginning to fear the CIA is becoming a Third Force co-equal with President Diem's regime and the U.S. Government - and answerable to neither.

There is naturally the highest interest here as to whether Mr. McNamara will persuade Mr. Kennedy something ought to be done about it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Mervyn Hagger]

44 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Is there a way you could post a link to this article?

It's on a subscription site and I have it in pdf, I also made a composite jpg but then I discovered that I have used up my file allowance. So the best I can do is put the composite on photobucket and link that. Sorry about the image quality.

 

Edited April 12, 2018 by Mervyn Hagger
replaced wrong link

[Paz Marverde]

38 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

'SPOOKS' MAKE LIFE MISERABLE FOR AMBASSADOR LODGE

'Arrogant' CIA Disobeys Orders in Viet Nam

By Richard T. Starnes

That article is in Michele Metta's documentary

[Mervyn Hagger]

This 1961 two page article by Walker points to Eugene Bernald as being behind the attacks on him via Overseas Weekly, and he links Bernald to Radio Swan and Radio Elizabethville in the breakaway Congo province of Katanga. Both stations are viewed as CIA operations. The original full size digital version of the printed paper is a little blurry and somewhat faded in places. The main thing about it is that it is pre-1963 and any physical attack by weapons upon him personally. This gives the article penned by Walker a little more authenticity for representing his viewpoint than something second hand written after the event.

[Jim Hargrove]

6 hours ago, Paz Marverde said:

That article is in Michele Metta's documentary

It is.  Watching the video was what prompted me to post it again.  Many people forget the open warfare going on between JFK and the CIA when Kennedy was killed.  Large elements of the CIA clearly hated him for the Bay of Pigs and undoubtedly hated the fact that he had ordered the withdrawal of U.S. "advisers" from Vietnam.