Keyvan Shahrdar Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Here I offer my wayward opinion how I think this conspiracy started. Comments welcomed. I want to read your opinions on this. 1. Oswald went to Mexico and offered to kill JFK to the Russians and Cubans. (They declined the offer) 2. American intelligence intercepted all these messages and knew that Oswald wanted to kill JFK. 3. CIA operatives reported this information up the line. 4. The conspiracy is borne. Lansdale got wind of Oswald's plan and made plans to facilitate for Oswald to go at it as a lone wolf. 5. Landsdale recruited his assassins to support Oswald. Oswald did not know that there were other assassins involved. 6. Somebody had to pay the hitmen? 7. When Oswald noticed other shooters shooting at JFK and the governor that is when he knew he was the patsy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Ward Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 (edited) Hi Keyvan, Items 1-2-3 I can accept as plausible. By accept I mean the evidence either supports this or doesn't eliminate this. I think the evidence suggests that Oswald was flamboyantly seeking a visa to Cuba and/or the USSR and wanted this well known, practically broadcasted. The part you have about offering to kill JFK is problematic on many levels IMO. Items 4-7 rise to the level of speculation with little to no evidence of support - IMO. Evidence you can post in support of your 7 step plan is something I highly value, so please post it if you have it. 2 hours ago, Keyvan Shahrdar said: Comments welcomed. I want to read your opinions on this. I guess for me the main thing is that you don't account for Oswald's highly dramatic Summer of '63 - which starts in my view from the 10 April shooting at General Walker's house, Oswald's then immediate move to New Orleans, all the public spectacle of FPCC activity and media coverage, and his return to Dallas. IMO the programmers of Oswald's actions in New Orleans are the authors of the assassination. Apart from the Alvarado story what is there to suggest Oswald was talking about killing Kennedy? ---HSCA Report Vol 11, p 163 Jason Edited April 17, 2018 by Jason Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence Schnapf Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 the underlying assumption in your query is that oswald intended to kill the president. the more likely scenario is that there was a plan in place and he was positioned to become the fall guy and had no intention to shoot the president. the walker shooting has unreliable and inadmissible evidence linking LHO to the attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 "I didn't shoot anybody" - Oswald. "We never could put him in that window with that gun in his hand" - Dallas Police Chief Jess Curry. So how did he notice other shooters if he was out front with Shelly in the corner of the entrance next to Fraiser praying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 11 hours ago, Lawrence Schnapf said: the underlying assumption in your query is that oswald intended to kill the president. the more likely scenario is that there was a plan in place and he was positioned to become the fall guy and had no intention to shoot the president. the walker shooting has unreliable and inadmissible evidence linking LHO to the attempt. 10 hours ago, Ron Bulman said: "I didn't shoot anybody" - Oswald. "We never could put him in that window with that gun in his hand" - Dallas Police Chief Jess Curry. So how did he notice other shooters if he was out front with Shelly in the corner of the entrance next to Fraiser praying? I also think the underlying assumption that Oswald offered to kill JFK makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paz Marverde Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 It started far before JFK was sat in the White House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. A. Copeland Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 This very question will probably necessitate (unfortunately) much more speculation than concrete evidence...at least in my own observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Other than the 6 chapters I compiled showing Mexico to be a charade.. The latest LITAMIL/9 releases support the idea... Alvarado was a CIA asset who told a story.... I've posted the unredacted evidence.... The man Ruby killed was not in Mexico...#1 in the list is a non starter... #2... They created the messages, not intercepted... And then try were attached to mystery man as Oswald thanks to Goodpasture who worked for Phillips.... #3 ... A lie is born... Whether this has to do JFK.. Whereas Alvarado (and another witness not spoken of much) had only to do with JFK... Alvarado does not come in until the week after the assassination. #4 is simply misstated... Oswald was in Dallas visiting Odio and making himself known at a shooting range.. Oswald had nothing to do with Dallas.. Just like Vallee had nothing to do with Chicago. The rest is assumption on a tangent which is not proven.... If JFK is shot in Tampa or Chicago do we all still think Oswald is the Patsy? What does that do to Mexico and New Orleans "Oswald" activity....? As for Oswald noticing other assassins, when did you get him onto the 6th floor with a rifle? Lol As I see it, the conspiracy is born at the same time as the acceptance of the concept... Sadly, with LBJ and his cronies... As well as Bundy, Harriman, Cabot Lodge, Dulles, McCloy, LeMay, Taylor...... Etc... He may have been marked soon after it was decided he won the election.... For 13 years these boys were making plans... Nixon would lead them to the promised land having led the Castro effort all along.. As well many covert actions he would lead while Ike slept. The military and CIA was poised, while JFK finally tells them to heal. JFK winning messed all that up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 As far as "Lee Harvey Oswald" is concerned, the plot began in earnest on April 23, 1963. This isn't difficult.... If you are going to kill a sitting American president, you have GOT to have a designated patsy. If you don’t, the search for you will be relentless, and you eventually will be apprehended no matter how well you cover your tracks. The designated patsy, at least for the specific assassination project that succeeded on 11/22/63, went by the name “Lee Harvey Oswald.” For no apparent reason whatsoever, “Lee Harvey Oswald” moved from Dallas back to New Orleans on April 23rd and 24th, 1963, but Ruth Paine invited Marina to stay with her in Texas. In New Orleans, “Lee Harvey Oswald” quickly adopted the role of a pro-Castro Communist sympathizer, although in actuality he was working with Guy Banister and other virulent anti-Communists. Nevertheless, the charade was necessary so the designated patsy could be depicted as a tool of Fidel Castro. The primary purpose of the assassination, I think, was to provoke an invasion of Cuba, which might have happened had LBJ not intervened and convinced Earl Warren to preside over a massive cover-up. Significant portions of the Federal government took major steps to clear the way for LHO’s patsification when, on Oct. 9, 1963, the FBI cancelled the “WANTED NOTICE CARD” on LHO, effectively removing FBI and Secret Service surveillance of LHO during President Kennedy’s visit to Dallas. One day later, on Oct. 10, the CIA issued a memo about “Lee Henry Oswald” with mostly accurate biograpic details about LHO essentially giving him a clean bill of political health, despite his so-called “defection” to the Soviet Union just a few years earlier. The plot was now in full swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 4 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said: As far as "Lee Harvey Oswald" is concerned, the plot began in earnest on April 23, 1963. This isn't difficult.... I'll have to disagree respectfully Jim... The Oswald Project could have simply been his expanded involvement with infiltration of left/right groups... His role was to appear in support of CASTRO, represent the FPCC and ID those in New Orleans who supported them... to connect that activity to the JFK conspiracy, is to me a bit of a stretch. I don't see it - the conspiracy to kill JFK - "STARTING" in April of 1963... but in a room where those most affected by his policies and politics would decide they could 1) pull it off as they had elsewhere in the world; 2) insure a guilty party is identified and killed; 3) cover it up as so many similar projects had been... To me, this screams of the JCS concerned with the new young president giving away the country to the Soviets... and his stopping of the 8+ years of planning to hit first and ask questions later... (which is why "American Intelligence" is an oxymoron ) Only the Military could have ensured BETHESDA was secure... without Bethesda, the cover-up gets infinitely more difficult... My $.02 =================== Alvarado... from a finally redacted memo (as I mentioned and promised) Another potential Phillips Asset was was Pedro Gutierrez Valencia who claimed "OSWALD" got into a car with an Hispanic just outside the Cuban Consulate.... https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Pedro_Gutierrez_Valencia_Allegation.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 DJ, Well, we’ve gone around and around on this a few times before. As I always say, it wouldn’t surprise me a bit if military intel—even at the JCS level—was involved in the plot, but I can only go with the direct evidence I can see. And I think Garrison had the tiger by the tail in New Orleans, even though he was nearly devoured by it. The conspiracy to kill JFK, as you say, probably started well before April 1963. I’ll bet the roots are in the days after the Bay of Pigs. But I do think, as I said originally, that Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald’s direct engagement as the patsy-to-be started on April 23, 1963, when he moved back to New Orleans, minus his family, for no apparent reason whatsoever. How interesting that Ruth Paine was intimately involved with Oswald family business even then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paz Marverde Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 As said, the conspiracy started when JFK was not even POTUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Reilley Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 7 hours ago, Paz Marverde said: As said, the conspiracy started when JFK was not even POTUS I don't understand this statement. Not saying I disagree at all, but why kill him if he hadn't ascended to power? I'm of the belief that if Nixon had won, the good ole' boys would have been running the show, they would have had the chance to have their own little war in Cuba, and the status quo would have gone on undeterred. I believe once Kennedy won the election, the truly powerful people of the country went into a sort of "panic mode" and did everything they could to undermine or sabotage his presidency. When everything failed and it looked like Kennedy was going to win again the next year, "panic mode" went into desperation, which leads to hastily made assassination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyvan Shahrdar Posted April 23, 2018 Author Share Posted April 23, 2018 On 4/20/2018 at 8:02 AM, David Josephs said: Other than the 6 chapters I compiled showing Mexico to be a charade.. The latest LITAMIL/9 releases support the idea... Alvarado was a CIA asset who told a story.... I've posted the unredacted evidence.... The man Ruby killed was not in Mexico...#1 in the list is a non starter... Keyvan>> Nobody knows. Oswald did have a motive to kill JFK and Governor Connally. The governor was the Secretary of the Navy and changed his honorable discharge to dishonorable discharge from the Marine Corp when Oswald went to Russia and said he would share USA secrets with the Russians. Oswald even wrote a letter to John Connally - “I shall employ all means to right this gross mistake or injustice to a bonified U.S. citizen and ex-serviceman.” He asked Connally personally to “repair the damage done to me and my family”... Connally brushed him off! #2... They created the messages, not intercepted... And then try were attached to mystery man as Oswald thanks to Goodpasture who worked for Phillips.... Keyvan>> Are any of those documents available for viewing? #3 ... A lie is born... Whether this has to do JFK.. Whereas Alvarado (and another witness not spoken of much) had only to do with JFK... Alvarado does not come in until the week after the assassination. #4 is simply misstated... Oswald was in Dallas visiting Odio and making himself known at a shooting range.. Oswald had nothing to do with Dallas.. Just like Vallee had nothing to do with Chicago. The rest is assumption on a tangent which is not proven.... If JFK is shot in Tampa or Chicago do we all still think Oswald is the Patsy? What does that do to Mexico and New Orleans "Oswald" activity....? As for Oswald noticing other assassins, when did you get him onto the 6th floor with a rifle? Lol As I see it, the conspiracy is born at the same time as the acceptance of the concept... Sadly, with LBJ and his cronies... As well as Bundy, Harriman, Cabot Lodge, Dulles, McCloy, LeMay, Taylor...... Etc... He may have been marked soon after it was decided he won the election.... For 13 years these boys were making plans... Nixon would lead them to the promised land having led the Castro effort all along.. As well many covert actions he would lead while Ike slept. The military and CIA was poised, while JFK finally tells them to heal. JFK winning messed all that up... 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I think Paz Marverde is on to something. My personal opinion is the assassination decision was made when Lyndon Johnson recieved the nomination to be Vice-President. The assassination planning began in earnest with the murder of Marilyn Monroe in August, 1962. Her death gave J. Edgar Hoover a black mail handle on Bobby Kennedy. Bobby Kennedy who was the Attorney General would have to go along with anything Johnson and Hoover wanted. It explains to me why Bobby Kennedy said he supported the Warren Commission findings until the day the died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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