What is the limo driver doing?

[Richard Price]

I don't know if this has ever been discussed, but it's one of those little things that I noticed long ago and can't get out of my head.  The Croft photo is taken very close in time to the first shot in the opinion of most researchers.  In the picture, the limo driver can be seen reaching with his right hand over to the upper mid dash area as he drives.  There are controls located in this area.  I know there is a 2 way radio at the very bottom center of the dash (with a microphone hanging on the left side), but what are these upper controls used for and why is he altering the setting?  I have hopefully attached 2 photos which can be used for reference if necessary.  Thanks, and I hope I am not dredging up "old" news.

[Tony Krome]

Greer appears to be adjusting the automatic transmission selector. The Croft photo is a few car lengths from the island curb where Truly stated the limo came close. Greer may be selecting the gear ratio under drive so that the limo could maintain a constant speed of approx 15mph to 20mph descending Elm without applying brake pressure. It was only after the first failed shot that brake pressure was applied.

For those who believe the that a first frontal shot occurred through the windshield, the limo had to be aligned perfectly.

For those that say why on earth would they plan a kill shot through the windshield? Here is the answer ....

The intended kill shot was pre-planned with the possibility that the bubble top would be covering the limo

Kinney: "At last check at approx 10:30am, the sky had cleared and that meant to us that the bubble top would stay off"

The first assassination bullet was pre-planned to penetrate a shield.

The ideal shield to penetrate would be the windshield with the target's head presenting no lateral movement as it approached along the line of trajectory.

Approx line of trajectory;

Brake pressure applied after first failed shot;

Approx sniper view along line of trajectory;

Edited May 7, 2021 by Tony Krome

[Joseph McBride]

There were Baker and Charlie radio transmissions. Maybe he was changing from one to the other.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Joseph McBride

[Tony Krome]

I considered that too, but he doesn't seem to be leaning forward to reach. The other consideration is why change frequency? Nothing had happened at that moment. Youngblood called for a frequency change, but that was after the shootings.

[Ron Bulman]

2 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Greer appears to be adjusting the automatic transmission selector. The Croft photo is a few car lengths from the island curb where Truly stated the limo came close. Greer may be selecting the gear ratio under drive so that the limo could maintain a constant speed of approx 15mph to 20mph descending Elm without applying brake pressure. It was only after the first failed shot that brake pressure was applied.

For those who believe the that a first frontal shot occurred through the windshield, the limo had to be aligned perfectly.

For those that say why on earth would they plan a kill shot through the windshield? Here is the answer ....

The intended kill shot was pre-planned with the possibility that the bubble top would be covering the limo

Kinney: "At last check at approx 10:30am, the sky had cleared and that meant to us that the bubble top would stay off"

The first assassination bullet was pre-planned to penetrate a shield.

The ideal shield to penetrate would be the windshield with the target's head presenting no lateral movement as it approached along the line of trajectory.

Approx line of trajectory;

Brake pressure applied after first failed shot;

Approx sniper view along line of trajectory;

Tony, in the second picture "brake pressure applied after the first failed shot".  Do you mean the first failed head shot?  JFK is raising his left hand towards his throat here with Connally turned to his right.  I've never seen this picture before, at least not zoomed in like this.  Thanks.

[Tony Krome]

50 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Tony, in the second picture "brake pressure applied after the first failed shot".  Do you mean the first failed head shot?  JFK is raising his left hand towards his throat here with Connally turned to his right.  I've never seen this picture before, at least not zoomed in like this.  Thanks.

I refer to "the first failed head shot" as the shot that came through the windshield, deflected low, and hit his throat as seen in the photo you refer to. This was the shot that the limo had to be perfectly aligned for as it came down Elm. That shot failed. The limo then brakes for the sitting duck flurry. I do not have that sniper shooting again. The flurry came in from very professional back-up snipers that were scoping a stationary target or near stationary target. Those guys were that good, Jackie, who was expected to move towards JFK, was relatively safe. Hickey said the first flurry shot skimmed his hair, so I would suspect that would have been the right of JFK's hair, clear from Jackie. The next flurry shot comes in at JFK's right temple, again, away from Jackie. As for the first failed shot, I am leaning towards a smaller caliber bullet as you have suggested.

I'm also considering that the windshield bullet is in fact the Tolson/Belmont bullet that was reported on the 22nd as being "lodged behind the President's ear". It would mean behind the right ear, above the neckline.

And yes, there were more than 3 shots. Audibly, there were 3.

Further, if the first shot was successful, the newspapers would have been reporting AP photograper, Altgens, as capturing the moment of JFK's fatal assassination.

Now, look at my last photo, "Approx sniper view along line of trajectory". What do you see above where the limo would have been? Yes, its the Sniper's nest along the very same line of trajectory. This is how Oswald comes into play.

The first frontal shot, along the same trajectory line, was always to become a shot from behind. 

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Tony Krome

[Richard Price]

It's been a long time since I posted this, but I was searching to see if anyone familiar with the limo knew specifically what the knobs on the upper middle portion of the dash controlled (as circled below).  My reason for this (at the time) were twofold.  One, I don't know what they control and I am innately curious/skeptical and want to know more about anything I am studying.  Two, I believe at the time some of the subjects being discussed were, the open microphone in the motorcade, the possible involvement of SS agents in the shooting scenario, particularly the driver, since he appeared to do just about everything wrong according to security protocols.  Probably just a complete coincidence, but the timing of his "tinkering" with a knob on the dash only a second(s) before the shooting began by most researchers estimate just got my attention.  Does anyone on the forum who has seen or researched the limo know for sure what these knobs controlled?

BTW, the second close up of a dash is NOT, as most have probably realized the Presidential Lincoln.

[Tony Krome]

23 minutes ago, Richard Price said:

It's been a long time since I posted this, but I was searching to see if anyone familiar with the limo knew specifically what the knobs on the upper middle portion of the dash controlled (as circled below).  My reason for this (at the time) were twofold.  One, I don't know what they control and I am innately curious/skeptical and want to know more about anything I am studying.  Two, I believe at the time some of the subjects being discussed were, the open microphone in the motorcade, the possible involvement of SS agents in the shooting scenario, particularly the driver, since he appeared to do just about everything wrong according to security protocols.  Probably just a complete coincidence, but the timing of his "tinkering" with a knob on the dash only a second(s) before the shooting began by most researchers estimate just got my attention.  Does anyone on the forum who has seen or researched the limo know for sure what these knobs controlled?

My take is that Kellerman would have been the agent that would have adjusted anything at the centre console whilst in a parade. The driver then has the responsibility of concentrating on driving. The Lincoln is a large vehicle and my guess is that it would involve a purposeful reach to adjust the controls in the middle of the dash. I just don't see Greer reaching. I see his hand on the transmission selector.

As you said, Greer did everything wrong, but as far as the snipers were concerned, he did everything right.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Tony Krome

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Greer appears to be adjusting the automatic transmission selector. The Croft photo is a few car lengths from the island curb where Truly stated the limo came close. Greer may be selecting the gear ratio under drive so that the limo could maintain a constant speed of approx 15mph to 20mph descending Elm without applying brake pressure. It was only after the first failed shot that brake pressure was applied.

For those who believe the that a first frontal shot occurred through the windshield, the limo had to be aligned perfectly.

For those that say why on earth would they plan a kill shot through the windshield? Here is the answer ....

The intended kill shot was pre-planned with the possibility that the bubble top would be covering the limo

Kinney: "At last check at approx 10:30am, the sky had cleared and that meant to us that the bubble top would stay off"

The first assassination bullet was pre-planned to penetrate a shield.

The ideal shield to penetrate would be the windshield with the target's head presenting no lateral movement as it approached along the line of trajectory.

Approx line of trajectory;

Brake pressure applied after first failed shot;

Approx sniper view along line of trajectory;

I like that logic about the bubble top, I am adamant that throat shot went through the windshield. Could JFK’s head still have been shot from the back from the TSB through the bubble top back window. If the bubble top is on, I would guess the north knoll (grassy) becomes the most accessible angle to kill JFK from. Shortest range and no obscuring the view. I am just trying to understand how or where Oswald should have been if the bubble top was on the car. 

[George Govus]

That limo had a control on the dash to raise and lower the back seat, did it not? Do we know just where that control was located? Could Greer have been fiddling with that?

[Tony Krome]

4 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

I like that logic about the bubble top, I am adamant that throat shot went through the windshield. Could JFK’s head still have been shot from the back from the TSB through the bubble top back window. If the bubble top is on, I would guess the north knoll (grassy) becomes the most accessible angle to kill JFK from. Shortest range and no obscuring the view. I am just trying to understand how or where Oswald should have been if the bubble top was on the car. 

The line of trajectory, if the first intended head shot through the windshield was successful, would be straight through the top of JFK's forehead and out through the rear of the bubble top. We have seen how easily the WC converted a frontal shot into a shot from the rear. So reverse the line of fire so that the bubble top is the first point of penetration, then JFK, then into the windshield. The beauty of it is, is that the vertical firing angle does not need to exact, they would bring deflection into the mix.

Substitute the dark guy below with Kennedy;

Edited May 7, 2021 by Tony Krome

[Tony Krome]

9 minutes ago, George Govus said:

That limo had a control on the dash to raise and lower the back seat, did it not? Do we know just where that control was located? Could Greer have been fiddling with that?

I read somewhere it was in reach of the rear passengers.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Tony Krome said:

The line of trajectory, if the first intended head shot through the windshield was successful, would be straight through the top of JFK's forehead and out through the rear of the bubble top. We have seen how easily the WC converted a frontal shot into a shot from the rear. So reverse the line of fire so that the bubble top is the first point of penetration, then JFK, then into the windshield.

Substitute the dark guy below with Kennedy;

Thanks Tony,

Two things; I have never seen the bubble top and had the wrong impression, I was expecting a black hard top with side and rear windows. Thanks for that. 
 

The throat wound is always thought of as lower calibre, it doesn’t seem to have the power to have exited, could that bullet have ever exited from the rear having had to go through two layers of skull? Also had it been higher calibre, was there a risk of casualties behind the presidential limo? That could screw the SBD narrative. 

[Tony Krome]

34 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

Thanks Tony,

Two things; I have never seen the bubble top and had the wrong impression, I was expecting a black hard top with side and rear windows. Thanks for that. 
 

The throat wound is always thought of as lower calibre, it doesn’t seem to have the power to have exited, could that bullet have ever exited from the rear having had to go through two layers of skull? Also had it been higher calibre, was there a risk of casualties behind the presidential limo? That could screw the SBD narrative. 

In answer for the 2nd question, we bring in the full Altgens 6 photo, see how it misses the SS agents;

I would think after exiting the bubble top, the power of the bullet would be greatly reduced.

The first question regarding the power and type of bullet used is a good one. I'm sure there are others here that could offer more expertise. Ron's thinking is along the lines of a 22, and there are many specialty types of rounds in that calibre. A larger calibre round also makes sense in that it should match the penetrating holes left by the first shooter. I have the original shells found by the Sniper's Nest window as 7.65, to be later substituted by 6.5. I have a theory on why the substitutions occurred, but thats for another day.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Tony Krome

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

In answer for the 2nd question, we bring in the full Altgens 6 photo, see how it misses the SS agents;

I would think after exiting the bubble top, the power of the bullet would be greatly reduced.

The first question regarding the power and type of bullet used is a good one. I'm sure there are others here that could offer more expertise. Ron's thinking is along the lines of a 22, and there are many specialty types of rounds in that calibre. A larger calibre round also makes sense in that it should match the penetrating holes left by the first shooter. I have the original shells found by the Sniper's Nest window as 7.65, to be later substituted by 6.5. I have a theory on why the substitutions occurred, but thats for another day.

I thought about this too, I got tumbleweed at the suggestion or maybe nobody knew but, a bullet low in diameter would presumably leave less chance of the windscreen being shattered or having the spiders web style cracking over a large proportion of the windscreen (my theory of why a different calibre was used). It would also probably pass through the head without a massive blowout. As the skin on the neck is very stretchy, it’s very hard to know the size of the round. JFK seems to be choking or coughing, probably behaving exactly as someone would with the shock of a bullet to the throat. I am at best on the fence about the bullet being fired to subdue him or a special dissolvable round being used to subdue him, it seems too over-elaborate. I am convinced that the windscreen hole is a bullet hole, that its from a south knoll shooter and that it’s responsible for the throat wound. 

It’s all fascinating, even after all these years. I question why I waste so much time on it, maybe partly because I admire the guy as an idealist, someone offering hope, someone we’d crave today or because it’s the greatest whodunnit murder mystery of all time?!