Guest Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Andrej, I don't agree with everything you say, but this last post is impressive and I think these past few weeks you have shown some great work. Thank you for sharing these! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrej Stancak Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 9 hours ago, Mark Knight said: The results do not CONCLUSIVELY make Prayer Man Lee Harvey Oswald. But they certainly make the possibility of Prayer Man being Oswald a lot more likely. I like your work, Andrej. Thanks, Mark. One cannot be careful enough in drawing any conclusions, I agree. And thanks for your kind words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrej Stancak Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Bart Kamp said: Andrej, I don't agree with everything you say, but this last post is impressive and I think these past few weeks you have shown some great work. Thank you for sharing these! Hello Bart: there is a long way ahead still in proving (or not) that Prayer man was Lee Harvey Oswald. Thanks for sharing your measurements of the Depository doorway back then, which was a big boost and help in this effort. Edited May 2, 2018 by Andrej Stancak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrej Stancak Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 On 4/30/2018 at 11:31 PM, Michael Walton said: https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,562.100.html Another blistering critique of Andrej's cartoon. People DO NOT stand that way Andrej. You're trying to fit a straight oversized leg in a round hole here. It's as simple as that. And besides this whole "PM is Oswald" goes against every single piece of plausibility and realism. Why would the murderers allow their patsy to even be out there during this crucial period, after planning this murder for the last 6-7 months? All of the groundwork that was laid down, only to see it go up in smoke when the victim of the murder enters the kill zone and the patsy wandering around outside instead of hiding himself up in the lunchroom. OSWALD: So what am I supposed to do? PLANNERS: Well, don't you know? Go right on out the front door and catch a glimpse of the President. And take a few photos while they go by. OSWALD: OK. HAHAHAHA!!! Lee Harvey Oswald leaves his wedding ring and almost all the money he had to Marina when leaving for work on Friday morning. Lee Harvey Oswald travels to work with Buell Wesley Frazier. He carries a package which was probably a small lunch sack, and which Buell Wesley Frazier claimed it had measured 27’’. Did he also carry a rifle to work? In my opinion, he did and Buell Wesley Frazier knew it. Lee Harvey Oswald realised he has been dragged into a fatal game right after the shooting, particularly when Gloria Calvery reached the doorway and started to talk about the President being killed. Lee Harvey Oswald is seen in Darnell staring towards the Records building. He is in the state of shock, motionless and is trying to comprehend what does the shooting mean for him. Within the next two minutes, Lee Harvey Oswald leaves the Depository, forgetting about his blue jacket which will be found days later in the first floor lunchroom. Lee Harvey Oswald flees the scene knowing that he soon will be a marked man. He travels to his rooming house, changes the slacks and the shirt, and takes his gun with him when leaving the house in haste. He goes to the Texas Theatre, and appears to be searching for someone as he sits next to each cinema visitors and moves to a next visitor. Lee Harvey Oswald’s behaviour reveals that he had a foreknowledge of some clandestine operation in which he played some part, however, the operation was not presented to him as an assassination operation. We can only speculate how and by whom was the operation presented to Lee Harvey Oswald. However, Lee Harvey Oswald did not blow a whistle right away and clearly had serious reasons to continue playing his part. And he did play his part: he went to the Texas Theatre, he was searching for a contact person in the theatre, he did not reveal identities of the conspirators (only indirectly by saying he was a patsy), he tried to contact a lawyer known for defending the communists, and he called for legal assistance. This behaviour suggests that Lee Harvey Oswald was still playing his role of a communist and pro-Castro activist which he had played in summer 1963 in New Orleans and during his trip to Mexico City in September and early October 1963. Connecting all these dots gives the following: Lee Harvey Oswald was lured to assisting in a mock assassination attempt (a similar event to the General Walker shooting) in which he would initially serve as a communist and a pro-Castro agent. His work for the FPCC and his contacts with the Soviet embassy (including the letter to the Soviet embassy dated November 😎 would be the proofs of involvements of foreign powers. This mock assassination attempt would be used to thwart any peace talks both with Russia and Cuba, and possibly to trigger an immediate retaliation against Cuba. Lee Harvey Oswald would be linked with the assassination attempt by the rifle which would first be connected with A.J. Hiddel and later on to Lee Harvey Oswald. Some compromising photographs showing him with the rifle and with some leftist newspapers would be prepared to strengthen his motives. Lee Harvey Oswald received the following guarantees: 1. He would meet a contact in the Texas Theatre and would be frisked from the country. As he knew he would be away for a long time and may never return, he left his wedding ring and money to Marina. 2. The money order for the rifle purchase would be flawed, and a proper investigation would not be able to prove a purchasing operation in a court trial. 3. He would briefly occur outside the building where he would be spotted by witnesses, photographed or filmed. He was not supposed to stress his whereabouts too soon before the political or military benefits would be collected by the conspirators. 4. Lee Harvey Oswald knew that all the “so-called evidence” would be refuted in a court trial: the photographs bore signs of fakery and Lee knew that they could be refuted; the rifle was not purchased by him and there was no way to prove it as the money order was not stamped; he could not be on the sixth floor because he was standing in the doorway, in the shadow, and would be filmed or seen by people. 5. Marina and children would be taken care of generously in case he would not be able to come back clean or even die. Once Lee Harvey Oswald realised that a mock shooting changed to the killing (and the first moment he learned could easily be the arrival of Gloria Calvery to the Depository), he continued his assignment knowing that the safety latches and plausible denials were still in place. However, he felt threatened and isolated, especially after his arrest which was the second deviation from the plan. He might have also fear for lives of his family. Unless killed, Lee Harvey Oswald would have been able to clear his name and reveal the identities of those who lured him into the case. To come back to the main point: Why was Lee Harvey Oswald outside the building in the doorway of Depository building? Because it was a safety latch and an opportunity for a plausible denial. His presence in the doorway was not random but planned. However, he still continued playing his part after assassination which entailed not showing the proofs of his innocence right away. Lee was confident he would be able to do it when the right time would come. He might well be also under a threat whereby the lives of his family would be under the risk if he blew the whistle right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 17 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said: One more attempt to achieve the optimal body proportions for Prayer Man. This time, I have abandoned Poser 11.1 recommendations and turned to the picture of Lee Harvey Oswald taken during his arrest by the New Orleans police in July, 1963. The right picture shows Lee Harvey Oswald from a rare frontal view. I have added lights to this picture to be able to see better his inseam and his knees. The left panel is the adjusted Poser mannequin named James. It is possible to adjust body proportions interactively and so I took the default James with proportions of an average man and adjusted them to fit Lee Harvey Oswald's body. Interestingly, Lee Harvey Oswald has long arms, I had to extend them by 10% compared to a standard male figure. The horizontal lines cross both figures at homologous body parts. Notably, the inseams in both figure, but also the waist and knees, are at the same levels in both figures. In the next, the mannequin with body posture of Lee Harvey Oswald was adjusted to match Prayer Man's posture in Darnell, and the resulting figure was overlaid onto Darnell's Prayer Man with blending coefficients 0, 20, 40 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 95 and 100%. A 100% overlay means the original Darnell picture with no traces of Poser mannequin. The two red lines indicate the edges of the top landing and the second step. The result exceeded any expectations. The overlay appears natural. Thus, it stroke my mind: if the fit of Poser mannequin is better when it has the body proportions of Lee Harvey Oswald than the body proportions of an average man, does it not say that Prayer Man was Lee Harvey Oswald? I use to watch these overlays for couple days before I export into Sketchup for the final fit. If anyone would have a suggestion what could be tweaked in Poser mannequin, please let me know. Andrej, Does James (Poser mannequin) need more adjusting? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SAzc3DbJrMBE32XxOrFfqPwzzC0tgbVr/view?usp=sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) I'd like to mirror Bart's post - the work is beautiful... I just think some of the assumptions about placement are off... The man below in HUGHES who appears to be Lovelady.... who must be in front of where PM would be... I also think this confirms the removal of frames at some point when he moves to his left by the time of Altgens... The Black Man is down a step or two... Wesley simply cannot be found on the steps pre-shooting. At the far right... if PM's foot was on the top step wouldn't we expect to see more of him i the light? (edit: see PM more like Lovelady in Hughes.... if that's Lovelady and if PM was that far forward) Here's another look... I believe the sun and shadows restricts the possible positions for PM... Edited May 2, 2018 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrej Stancak Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Chris Davidson said: Andrej, Does James (Poser mannequin) need more adjusting? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SAzc3DbJrMBE32XxOrFfqPwzzC0tgbVr/view?usp=sharing Chris: thanks for an interesting and useful overlay. Would you like to see the mannequin to match the exact posture and body contours of Lee Harvey Oswald as he was photographed by the NO PD? I was happy with the body proportions which, as the horizontal lines indicate, match in both figures quite well. Or, do you think that the body proportions of James Poser do not match well Lee's body? I would be only worried if the latter would be the case and, of course, I would make a correction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrej Stancak Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 1 hour ago, David Josephs said: The man below in HUGHES who appears to be Lovelady.... who must be in front of where PM would be... I also think this confirms the removal of frames at some point when he moves to his left by the time of Altgens... The Black Man is down a step or two... Wesley simply cannot be found on the steps pre-shooting. At the far right... if PM's foot was on the top step wouldn't we expect to see more of him i the light? (edit: see PM more like Lovelady in Hughes.... if that's Lovelady and if PM was that far forward) David: I guess the man wearing a white T-shirt in Hughes is Billy Lovelady. While I cannot prove it at this stage, I assume that Lee Harvey Oswald was not in the doorway yet, he arrived later. It would be hardly possible to accommodate this Lovelady's figure and Prayer Man's figure (at his Wiegman location) in Hughes stills. Buell Wesley Frazier: he was very likely down on the steps at some point, however, I understand that it was minutes before the motorcade was passing the Depository building. In the critical period (e.g., starting with Hughes film), Mr. Frazier stood back there in front of the glass window, in the central-western part of the doorway. For that reason, he is not seen in Altgens6. He stepped slightly forwards (while keeping himself to the top landing) to the front edge of the top landing in Darnell. In none of the video documents can Buell Wesley Frazier be seen on any step below the top landing. As what part of Prayer Man was illuminated by the light, it was basically his left thigh, back of his right hand, and possibly the knuckles of his left hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) Quote As what part of Prayer Man was illuminated by the light, it was basically his left thigh, back of his right hand, and possibly the knuckles of his left hand Interesting ... As any decent Photoshop user can, making it appear as if light is shining on parts of the image... PM is in the shade, entirely. None of PM is in direct sunlight in this frame grab.... Wesley's head isn't in direct sunlight. Given the location of the sun, there's no way PM is illuminated.... nor is he close to the front of the landing Edited May 2, 2018 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hume Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) I don’t think I’m disagreeing with either Andrej or David by pointing out that “Lee Harvey Oswald” anagrams to: “A SHADY 11/22 OVER LEE” A bit of a double entendre as well. (A=0)(B=1)(C=2)(D=3)(E=4)(F=5)(G=6)(H=7)(I=8)(J=9)(K=10)(L=11)(M=12)(N=13)(O=14)(P=15)(Q=16)(R=17)(S=18)(T=19)(U=20)(V=21)(W=22)(X=23)(Y=24)(Z=25) Edited May 2, 2018 by Tom Hume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrej Stancak Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) David: If you push Prayer Man further back towards the glass door, you will also increase the distance between Prayer Man's right elbow and the edge of the red column brick. Please mind that Prayer Man's head was crossed by the vertical line of the door frame in Darnell. If you would like to push him further back, it could be only along the line connecting Prayer Man's head and the door frame. Again, you are free to do so, however, other parts of Prayer Man will be misaligned. My view is that the lighter shade on hands is due to a small part of the hand being exposed to the sunlight which spot was then blurred - basically averaged with the surrounding darker color of the hand. Another possibility could be that the hands receive a reflected light from somewhere since it was a sunny day and white or light colored surfaces reflected light strongly. The images are very blurred and the left thigh is hardly seen, yet it is of lighter color than the rest of Prayer Man's body. I think he wore a dark grey or khaki coloured pants, and those did not reflect the sunlight strongly. They just appear to be of a bit lighter color. The shadow in the doorway as it was on November 22, 12.30 PM can be seen in the overhead view of the doorway. By the way, it would not be difficult to bend Prayer Man's right hand just by one inch and it would not be in the sunlight. Edited May 2, 2018 by Andrej Stancak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 It "seems" as if he's farther back, to me... but he is much closer to those stairs now that I see them better.... It also seems that you may be missing some of the shade caused by the overhang of the landing...in your over head image... Again, thanks for the great effort and persistence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Tom Hume said: I don’t think I’m disagreeing with either Andrej or David by pointing out that “Lee Harvey Oswald” anagrams to: “A SHADY 11/22 OVER LEE” A bit of a double entendre as well. (A=0)(B=1)(C=2)(D=3)(E=4)(F=5)(G=6)(H=7)(I=8)(J=9)(K=10)(L=11)(M=12)(N=13)(O=14)(P=15)(Q=16)(R=17)(S=18)(T=19)(U=20)(V=21)(W=22)(X=23)(Y=24)(Z=25) I don't care what anyone says... I'm rooting for Tom to be 100% correct.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrej Stancak Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 I am studying the standard body proportions in humans to strengthen the 3D model of Prayer Man. Visual artists employ a 7 1/2 (some prefer eight) ratio between the height of the head and the height of the entire body. The head size also allows estimating the relative sizes of different body parts with a reasonable accuracy. You can read about 7 1/2 head-body ratio here: https://www.artistsnetwork.com/art-techniques/drawing-proportions-human-body-ameral/ . I have applied the 7 1/2 rule to Lee Harvey Oswald's body, and it worked well. The grey rectangles are adjusted to match the height of Lee's head. And there were 7 1/2 heads which covered his entire body. I then took the 7 1/2 rectangles and copied them on Darnell still while adjusting the sizes of the rectangles in such a way that each full rectangle matched the height of Prayer Man's head. The Prayer Man's head is delineated by two horizontal blue lines. The lower pair of blue lines indicate the edges of the top landing and second step. Well, the 7 1/2 heads reached the tread of the second step. This simple but clear and convincing analysis supports the view that Prayer Man was a man 5'9'' and standing on the second step (with his right foot only, though). Would this simple analysis been applied back then in August 2013, or at any time point later, we could save ourselves a lot of confusion and blind avenues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Walton Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 A simple question that deserves a simple answer for all of the additional cartoon work and overlays and animated GIFs... Do any of you find it just a little bit strange that after all of this planning of the murder - starting back in March '63 - that the planners would have at least told Oswald to stay in the building during the most crucial time of all? Perhaps with the fake notion of "be ready to take a call" or something like that? This is mere seconds before and after the shooting sequence. So they do all of this planning - set up the fake backyard photos, give damning evidence to the Paines, have Oswald recorded on film back in August as a communist, get him a job in the very building where the fake snipers nest is set up, and on and on - and yet... OOPS! There's their patsy lurking around *outside of the snipers nest* I mean, really? Andrej, you said something above about... Lee Harvey Oswald flees the scene knowing that he soon will be a marked man. He travels to his rooming house, changes the slacks and the shirt, and takes his gun with him when leaving the house in haste. Really, Andrej? The evidence suggests otherwise. He catches a cab, gives it up to a lady, and ends up taking the bus - hardly the actions of a man fleeing. Your story above is actually pretty good and kudos to you for writing it. Still, it just seems too far-fetched that all of this planning would have been ruined by allowing Oswald to lurk out there. And didn't I read somewhere that Oswald was good at taking orders? In other words, if they were promising him something - and had been stringing him along all of this time, all the way back to August in NO - why would he suddenly break ranks now? It doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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