"My New Thread"

[Darren Hastings]

Nice work Andrej - keep at it. It’s appreciated!

[Bernie Laverick]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 8:13 AM, Michael Walton said:

People do not stand with one leg down for extended periods of time - it's a very unnatural thing to do. We simply do not know or never will know who that is on the stoop - we can continue to go back and forth with 3D animations and low-res extreme blow ups of pixelly images to claim it's a man or woman, Oswald or a female employee. But there is simply not enough hard evidence to prove that it's Oswald up there.

And no one seems to ask themselves the significant question because if they do, it will put doubt in their mind.  That question is:

If the plan was to murder Kennedy and set up Oswald to be the patsy, WHY would they allow their patsy to be out there during  these critical moments, risking the whole conspiracy? The planners knew that there was going to be cameras outside during the parade.  They most certainly wouldn't want the person they had set up to take the blame for the murder to be anywhere NEAR these cameras.

Of course, Andrej, Bart and John will totally ignore this because you DO have to take this into consideration, but instead they prefer to just ignore it and go on with their conspiracy belief that it's Oswald up there seconds after the shooting.

Hi Michael, hope you're well buddy. You and I have joined forces a couple of times on here, notably in criticising H&L and other wild far out wacky ideas. But I'm surprised at your stance here over PM as I personally think it is potentially the most exciting development of the last 50 odd years. There has been some outstanding work done on this by those who, in other threads and issues, like you and I, criticise the obvious ridiculous red-herring distractions that infest the JFK community. Also, this is NOT just about photographic evidence. There is an infamous thread on here started by Bill Kelly but dominated by Sean Murphy's masterful teasing out of the facts leading up to that point. Since then ROKC, and Bart and Adrej in particular, have made even more headway.

I understand your main contention. In reality it is your only contention. (That is, the paragraph in bold above). But there are many theories as to how Oswald ended up as the one and only patsy, and even more as to when. If this IS Oswald, then logic dictates that the plotters did not pre plan his guilt, and that another outcome was originally desired. Hence the utterly ridiculous and tortuous public transport 'escape' scenario.  You may ask, if your scenario is correct, why did they allow him to leave the building on his own in the first place to go God knows where and talk to God knows who? If he was the long term pre planned patsy why wasn't he 'dealt with' at TSBD?

It isn't as certain as you think that Oswald was being set up months before the assassination. 'Sheep dipping' someone to better smear their characters for some future espionage activity doesn't necessarily mean that that activity is going to be an assassination. We don't have categoric proof that he was the pre determined patsy and therefore that doesn't preclude him being somewhere he subsequently 'shouldn't have been' for the LN theory to work.

I believe it was a rushed job to tie it down to Oswald, and him alone, to make the best of what they had, and then try their best to fit all those hundreds of loose square pegs into the hundreds of empty round holes. They're still doing it now. Here's a question then Michael. Where WAS Oswald in your opinion? Bearing in mind that if you say anywhere OTHER than the sniper's window... your same rule applies. "Why was he allowed to be there when he was supposed to be at the sniper's window?"

He had to be somewhere for God's sake! And unless you believe him to be the LN at the window (which you don't) logic says he must have been somewhere else.

I haven't seen a more in depth explanation for where that place may have been other than the PM research.

 

Best wishes buddy

 

 

[Michael Walton]

21 hours ago, Bernie Laverick said:

You and I have joined forces a couple of times on here, notably in criticising H&L and other wild far out wacky ideas.

Hi Bernie - you've raised some interesting points here, especially the possibility that LHO was set up at the last minute vs. not being the long-term patsy. What leads me, personally, to believe he was the only one and being the long-term one is what we can go by based on actual things that happened such as him stirring up trouble in NO, the handing out of the leaflets,  and getting himself on television as the "crazy Communist." 

Of course there could have been other "crazy Communist" patsies out there who also did something similar but their little "15-minute" event is gone forever so we'll never know.  But we did know with LHO because it didn't take long after 11/22 to reveal this footage.

I agree about his strange leaving of the building and hailing a cab, politely turning it over to a lady, then hopping on a bus and so on. It certainly doesn't look like he was in a hurry or had some kind of escape plan if he in fact had just blown the head off of the President. And the arrival at the rooming house and the horn beeping is also interesting. He may well have been set up to be murdered in some kind of confrontation at the TSBD and when that didn't work out for whatever reason, he was told to go to the theater for his next "assignment" there, where he'd be murdered there with his pistol in hand (headline: COP KILLER AND JFK ASSASSIN NABBED IN THEATER GUNFIGHT).

UPDATE - after thinking this through further, we mustn't forget what happened with Tippit. Somehow that murder was all part of the grand plan IMO. If Oswald had been murdered at the TSBD, it may have been too pat and perfect to suddenly point the finger at LHO.  So they had to get him to the rooming house for him to get the gun, then make it appear as if he shot JDT. That would have been the catalyst to gun him down at the theater (e.g., crazed Communist not only killed the president but shot down one of Dallas's finest in cold blood).

Also, FWIW, many months ago on EF I did mention to BK that he's done a good job on the PM theory but the only way we'll ever know is if the TV station would release a pristine copy of the footage to actually try to see who it is vs. using multi-generation copies of the footage. The latest I've heard is it hasn't happened yet. Until that happens, I think the PM issue is pretty much at a standstill and open to speculation such as folks drawing in 3D animation programs (myself being one of them) and blowing up the footage frames to an extreme extent to claim it's a woman. Believe me when I say I'd LOVE for it to be Oswald but those hairs on the back of my neck tell me it's not. And the main reason is because LHO seemed to be a guy who took orders well - if we are to believe the conspiracy narrative of the patsy, he was ordered to do the NO thing; he was ordered to unwittingly sign his name on documents that could be used against him later; and so on. And I think he was ordered to be somewhere *inside* of the TSBD, not roaming around where he could be captured on film, ruining the plan.

When I say "ordered," I don't mean he snapped a salute, clicked his heels and went off. But like Bill Simpich said in State Secret, Oswald was a spy in his own mind so he liked the intrigue of it all and therefore, willingly did the things they told him to do. He obviously and sadly didn't know he was going to take the fall for it all.  As he said in the hallway, he was just a patsy and he was reminding his wife, of all things, to not forget to buy his daughter some new shoes. That comment, to me, makes it appear almost as if he thought this was all one big mistake and he'd get off some how or another.

But of course with this case, anything's possible.

Thanks, MW 

Edited May 27, 2018 by Michael Walton

[Andrej Stancak]

It is still worthy to revise some basic facts which alone provide a good hint how tall Prayer Man was. Since we know Mr. Frazier's body height (6' - 6' 1/2') we can roughly estimate Prayer Man's height by subtracting from Mr. Frazier's height 10 inches. Why 10 inches? This is because the top of Prayer Man's head aligns with the horizontal line crossing Mr. Frazier's shoulder line, and in the specific view of Darnell, also the lowest point of his head. The following table was extracted from Wikipedia. It shows the vertical sizes of human heads for males and females of different body heights. The right-hand table refers to inches, the left-hand panel gives the same in cm. The green column in the centre of the table corresponds to people with an average body height, and the values to the right to the tall people.

Adapted from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_head

[John Butler]

Good points Andrej.

But, what do you do with the folks that say Lee Harvey Oswald had a 13 inch head based on one of his Marine photos?

[Andrej Stancak]

20 minutes ago, John Butler said:

Good points Andrej.

But, what do you do with the folks that say Lee Harvey Oswald had a 13 inch head based on one of his Marine photos?

John: 

this issue has been discussed at length by Sandy and David Josephs and few other members on the famous "Oswald leaving ..." thread which is now buried among other old threads. It has to do with reading dimensions of a 3D object from a 2D picture which often leads to misinterpretations. 

[Andrej Stancak]

24 minutes ago, John Butler said:

Good points

John: 

I posted the head size data because some researchers want us to believe that a person sized 6' could have a head measuring only 7'' in height. These people do not even bother to measure their own heads. Perhaps, they are not able to do it because their own heads are also only 7'' and store microcephalic brains? In any case, the evidence for those people is "I say it and therefore it is a valid evidence". If you would ask for a source for their head size claims, you would receive none. 

[John Butler]

Andrej,

Also from Wikipedia is the notion that the average length of the human head is 9.4 inches.  Your use of 10 inches is extremely reasonable. 

I don't have a good answer for Oswalds with 13 inch heads.  I went back and reviewed the Marine photo.  The Marine photo has a height measurement chart behind Oswald's head.  It is pretty straight forward and blows up my theory that Harvey Oswald had a normal head and Lee Oswald had the 13 inch head.  The Oswald in the picture can be identified as Harvey Oswald with a 13 inch head.  My sense of image discrimination says it is not Harvey but all of the signs to identify Harvey Oswald is there.

As far as microcephalic brains, there do appear to be a few here and there.  I don't have a source for that, just intuition.