Jason Ward Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 27 minutes ago, Mark Knight said: What "others have concluded" is that we know NEXT TO NOTHING about Oswald's time and associations between clearing British customs in Southampton until his arrival in Helsinki. So what part of "what others have concluded" does this conflict with? Hi Mark, Thanks for your note. We've been told in this thread to admire and accept the usual mantra of established CT dogma: that Albert Shweitzer College is obscure, certainly a fraudulent creation, and with no possible mechanism for LHO to find on his own. Hence, it is CIA, we're told. Mervyn Hagger has resisted groupthink. Instead of citing and accepting the conclusions of others, Mervyn shows us evidence he found on his own, evidence that IMO shows The Establishment is wrong about Albert Schweitzer College. Furthermore, his original research using primary sources shows that established assassination "researchers" are either sloppy or deliberately citing only evidence which supports their desired narrative. Mervyn shows that Albert Schweitzer College was widely publicised and easily on the radar of anyone who reads newspapers - contrary to the 50+ year unquestioned dogma that ASC was an unknown oddity unlikely to attract average 19 year old American applicants. Regards Jason Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Hagger Posted May 13, 2018 Author Share Posted May 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, Jason Ward said: Hi Mark, Thanks for your note. We've been told in this thread to admire and accept the usual mantra of established CT dogma: that Albert Shweitzer College is obscure, certainly a fraudulent creation, and with no possible mechanism for LHO to find on his own. Hence, it is CIA, we're told. Mervyn Hagger has resisted groupthink. Instead of citing and accepting the conclusions of others, Mervyn shows us evidence he found on his own, evidence that IMO shows The Establishment is wrong about Albert Schweitzer College. Furthermore, his original research using primary sources shows that established assassination "researchers" are either sloppy or deliberately citing only evidence which supports their desired narrative. Mervyn shows that Albert Schweitzer College was widely publicised and easily on the radar of anyone who reads newspapers - contrary to the 50+ year unquestioned dogma that ASC was an unknown oddity unlikely to attract average 19 year old American applicants. Regards Jason Ward Jason, I have found more but I have reached my attachment limit and it is not removing them after I delete old images. I have one that is dated December 2, 1963 - three days earlier with a slightly different (but supportive) text. Why this is important is because LHO's Mom turns to Jim Wright for help in finding out what has become of her son! Any ideas of a site that I can upload clips to and then just link them here? Mervyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Ward Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Mervyn Hagger said: Jason, I have found more but I have reached my attachment limit and it is not removing them after I delete old images. I have one that is dated December 2, 1963 - three days earlier with a slightly different (but supportive) text. Why this is important is because LHO's Mom turns to Jim Wright for help in finding out what has become of her son! Any ideas of a site that I can upload clips to and then just link them here? Mervyn I use imgbb.com, which hosts your images and provides an embedded link so that they appear here. You can also email it to me and I'll post it, attributed to you. Again, amazing work. Top notch. Thanks and keep it coming. Jason Edited May 13, 2018 by Jason Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Knight Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 General Edwin Walker attempted to resign from the Army on August 24, 1959. President Eisenhower refused to accept his resignation, and offered him command of the 24th Infantry, then stationed in Augsburg, Germany. Walker accepted the offer. Can anyone tell me the date Walker arrived in Germany? Is there even a TINY possibility that he crossed paths with Oswald in September of 1959? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Hagger Posted May 13, 2018 Author Share Posted May 13, 2018 (edited) LHO'S Mom turned to Jim Wright to help find her son! According to a report I am now trying to download, Oswald was in Moscow at the Metropolie Hotel passing himself off as a shipping expert .... This is a massive feature that even shows LHO as a schoolboy in Fort Worth, Texas. Mervyn Edited May 13, 2018 by Mervyn Hagger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Hagger Posted May 13, 2018 Author Share Posted May 13, 2018 44 minutes ago, Jason Ward said: You can also email it to me and I'll post it, attributed to you. I have sent you the Jim Wright cutting and I am now working on a major feature story about LHO. I will be sending that to you as well, and I removed the link you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Tracy Parnell Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) On 5/13/2018 at 11:27 AM, Mervyn Hagger said: Well, there it is. Now you know who he contacted in order to go to college. Not trying to be a "party pooper," but these facts have been known for years and years. See WC CD 120: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10524 Interesting thread though. Edited May 14, 2018 by W. Tracy Parnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 23 hours ago, Mervyn Hagger said: I have already answered most of this. But what I said about 'hits' is not what you are now saying that I said. Go back and read my words. Clearly conjectures' version of what happened after LHO left UK Immigration is not going to like where my research is going. I don't believe in the flying saucer version, and I don't believe in a parallel universe. I am trying to use forensic means working off a structural hypothesis or two or three. When one gets shot down I move on. I am looking for the gun that the murderer threw away, or the body that the mass murderer buried. I need clues about where to look for the evidence and when I find it, I go from there to the next step. This is in reality a cold crime case, and that is how I am treating it. MH - p[lease don't take this as any type of attack on the ideas... you just seem so willing to just drop info that doesn't suit you... I'm just as interested in the research and what turns up as anyone... but please don't just accept the surface story on its own merits... that's just not how Angleton worked.... Bjorn is important... he takes the time to recall a semester at ASC (you know anyone else writing about being there?) yet none of the student rolls has him listed... hmmm, who do we know that creates bogus documents as back stories to their covert ops .... "FRIENDS of ASC" is not a Quaker group MH... I posted quite a lot of info as well as links to more info... Quakers are NOT Unitarian by definition but by choice if even. Although raised a Quaker, Ezra Cornell, founder of Cornell University in Ithaca, New York, attended the Unitarian church and was one of the founders of Ithaca's First Unitarian Church. Eramus Darwin Shattuck, a signatory to the Oregon State Constitution, founded the first Unitarian Church in Oregon in 1865 If you look up Unitarian, the word "Quaker" does not appear.... but I know Dulles used the Quakers around the world to help provide cover... was wondering about his grip on the Unitarians.... ==== Re. Schacht is listed as a member as well as a "Friend of the Committee" Iowa appears to be a place where a Judy Cutler lives after attending ASC.... and it also says that the College moves from CHURWALDEN to CORCELLES-sur-CHAVERNAY... yet there does not to be any record of a school there... so I'm still looking... There would be very little reason for our Oswald to be going to ASC - a liberal arts and music school catering to all students from all countries including Socialist and Communist.... I find it impossible that the FRIENDS of ASC and the other support... Do you have any info in the new location in 1965/66? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Hagger Posted May 14, 2018 Author Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, David Josephs said: MH - p[lease don't take this as any type of attack on the ideas... you just seem so willing to just drop info that doesn't suit you... I'm just as interested in the research and what turns up as anyone... but please don't just accept the surface story on its own merits... that's just not how Angleton worked.... Bjorn is important... he takes the time to recall a semester at ASC (you know anyone else writing about being there?) yet none of the student rolls has him listed... hmmm, who do we know that creates bogus documents as back stories to their covert ops .... "FRIENDS of ASC" is not a Quaker group MH... I posted quite a lot of info as well as links to more info... Quakers are NOT Unitarian by definition but by choice if even. Although raised a Quaker, Ezra Cornell, founder of Cornell University in Ithaca, New York, attended the Unitarian church and was one of the founders of Ithaca's First Unitarian Church. Eramus Darwin Shattuck, a signatory to the Oregon State Constitution, founded the first Unitarian Church in Oregon in 1865 If you look up Unitarian, the word "Quaker" does not appear.... but I know Dulles used the Quakers around the world to help provide cover... was wondering about his grip on the Unitarians.... ==== Re. Schacht is listed as a member as well as a "Friend of the Committee" Iowa appears to be a place where a Judy Cutler lives after attending ASC.... and it also says that the College moves from CHURWALDEN to CORCELLES-sur-CHAVERNAY... yet there does not to be any record of a school there... so I'm still looking... There would be very little reason for our Oswald to be going to ASC - a liberal arts and music school catering to all students from all countries including Socialist and Communist.... I find it impossible that the FRIENDS of ASC and the other support... Do you have any info in the new location in 1965/66? David I am not even going to bother responding because you are obviously NOT reading the thread you spun off and created about Albert Schweitzer College. You are correcting me for things I never stated. But to save myself a lot of bother and to save you the bother of reading your own thread, this is what I posted there ... Having discovered that a huge number of news and feature articles were written about Lee Harvey Oswald's actions following his exit from UK Immigration at Southampton, England, it is certainly beginning to look as though one of two things happened: 1) Lee Harvey Oswald was confronted by someone who had tremendous threat value to himself. In other words, "you will do as I say, or else." Or else what? Maybe harm to his family members in Texas. 2) Lee Harvey Oswald vanished and someone else took his place. In addition to his mother being shocked that he was not at school in Switzerland, his brother tried to contact LHO in Moscow via the U.S. Embassy. His Mom tried to bring in Jim Wright to figure out what was going on. By all accounts LHO was not a political person, and he quite clearly stated that he was not a communist. He did share ideas from Marx, but so did the church that he was associating with in the USA, and that church maintained a college he had made plans to attend in Switzerland. That church was an amalgamation of two denominations - the Universalists and the Unitarians. Neither would have found favor in Dallas, Texas during 1959, because that was the home of the first real mega-church conducted as an outreach of the Southern Baptists. Their ideological doctrine linked communism with Satanism (Billy Graham wrote that and used it as part of his title for a secular magazine article. Graham was also a member of the Dallas church.) That was the Dallas church of Pastor Criswell and he was an advocate of Pre-Millennial-ism. That doctrine taken from the Bible, warned of a revived Roman Empire. Its political head would be called 'The Beast', and its spiritual head 'The False Prophet'. This entity, possibly known as the United States of Europe, would one day attack the USA and destroy it. Then it would turn on a united USSR-China communist coalition and commence the final war culminating in the 'Battle (at) Armageddon'. This coming WWIII would necessitate the return of Jesus Christ to Jerusalem as King of kings and Lord of lords, and all war would then cease for one thousand years. This doctrine of Pre-Millennial-ism has many variations on the same theme, and Herbert W. Armstrong (who certainly did not like the Southern Baptists), was a great advocate of this ideology which was broadcast for half an hour each day over stations such as KRLD-AM (50kW), in Dallas. That is the climate to which Edwin Walker returned, and John Birch Society members would not find their political views out of step with Pre-Millennial beliefs. However, Lee Harvey Oswald was not a party to any of this. He was on the most liberal and all-inclusive side of religion, and the Universalist-Unitarians were also promoters of a pacifist approach to conflict. Unfortunately those views don't seem to fit the description of the USSR, or the USA, and they certainly had no place in Dallas, Texas of 1959. But pacifism is not a word that we now associate with Lee Harvey Oswald. ................................................................................................................ as an addendum David, I probably know more about the theological differences between various groups (such as the Society of Friends), than you do. Please don't correct me for things I never stated. As for your interests - they are your interests. My interest in the entire JFK matter is a side issue attached to a greater investigation. I am not and never have been involved with any JFK group. I can claim by 'accident' of geography to having lived next door' (so to speak) to the grave of LHO, and I can also claim to have driven so many times that I have lost count over the spot where JFK got shot. As I passed by I noticed all the tourists on the grassy knoll taking pictures and then returned to the real world. I am NOT a JFK addict. I don't like the man, or his brother and I have no interest in their glorification. I just want to know more about the involvement of people and events that collide with my research project. Please read the threads that you start! Mervyn Edited May 14, 2018 by Mervyn Hagger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Please don't correct me for things I never stated. As for your interests - they are your interests. My interest in the entire JFK matter is a side issue attached to a greater investigation. I am not and never have been involved with any JFK group. I can claim by 'accident' of geography to having lived next door' (so to speak) to the grave of LHO, and I can also claim to have driven so many times that I have lost count over the spot where JFK got shot. As I passed by I noticed all the tourists on the grassy knoll taking pictures and then returned to the real world. I am NOT a JFK addict. I don't like the man, or his brother and I have no interest in their glorification. I just want to know more about the involvement of people and events that collide with my research project. Please read the threads that you start! ================================================== I post like this to fully explain the thinking and sources... you're looking at one piece of the puzzle and pretending it's not attached to any other part of the same puzzle... doesn't really work that way. Sir, I have and I do. As you've said, your interest in the JFK aspect of this discussion is limited - which is the very reason you seem to be happy coming to conclusions that don't take the rest of the case into consideration. As for "driving over the spot" - I doubt very highly that you know where those spots actually were... that "X" on the road is yet another fairytale like this trip to ASC you seem so fixated upon... as I've been writing now for a few years... The Evidence IS the Conspiracy MH - Point please to the things of yours I've corrected.... for it is most difficult to CORRECT something when the author is only speculating on whether they are facts in the first place. If you are talking Quakers and Unitarians... time to move on... this has nothing to do with the religious aspect of any of this... he never went to ASC for he was never supposed to go - he was part of a military/CIA defector program... Is that concept truly too much to digest? That a COVER STORY was created so it did not look like a Marine was sent to Russia as a spy... You think WEBSTER was a trade show exhibitor for RAND? And then there's DUTKANICZ... https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=112143&search=dutkanicz#relPageId=2&tab=page who was so much like Oswald a comparison sheet was done: You've arrived at these two options: 1) Lee Harvey Oswald was confronted by someone who had tremendous threat value to himself. In other words, "you will do as I say, or else." Or else what? Maybe harm to his family members in Texas. 2) Lee Harvey Oswald vanished and someone else took his place And I'm saying we're nowhere near that point in the discussion.... plus, you offer less than nothing in support of your theory... Just as plausible an explanation is "Oswald was pretending to be going to ASC - he was part of a defector program" Mervyn... there were quite a few others at that time.... Why is that angle on this trip so hard for you to accept in lieu of being FORCED into defecting? I truly believe you are forgetting with what we are dealing and making this more about religion than is called for... the entire point of the defector program and this trip was to get Oswald into Russia... period. To gain some insight into what goes on there... I have a few questions What do you suppose the chances of Oswald NOT getting accepted to ASC were? In Southern CA in March 1959 - where did Oswald get the application with the RI Reverend's name on it? The acceptance letter from ASC states the forms he sent were the wrong ones, to redo them with the forms now sent and send a copy to the Rev... except if you look closely, the single application we do have was signed 3/4/59.... how does the paperwork all get redone and resent... and when does Oswald learn he is accepted? For if we continue looking for such an acceptance... we are hard pressed to find one yet if your theory is correct... Oswald being accepted is definitely a prerequisite for clandestine travel as a spy... no? Why is the "Application to ASC" so different and only a small piece of the application sent to RI? or is this simply all we have in evidence related to these forms? From John Armstrong's notebooks we have a response from Ernest Cassara who was the interim director at ASC in the 63-64 school year.... ... the International Association for Religious Freedom... appears more the mover/shaker here.... and I understood there to be some concerns with that org... the IARF... "The International Association for Religious Freedom (IARF) is a charitable organization that works for religious freedom around the world. It was founded in Boston in 1900 and is the oldest international interfaith group." 1 hour ago, Mervyn Hagger said: David I am not even going to bother responding because you are obviously NOT reading the thread you spun off and created about Albert Schweitzer College. You are correcting me for things I never stated. But to save myself a lot of bother and to save you the bother of reading your own thread, this is what I posted there ... Having discovered that a huge number of news and feature articles were written about Lee Harvey Oswald's actions following his exit from UK Immigration at Southampton, England, it is certainly beginning to look as though one of two things happened: 1) Lee Harvey Oswald was confronted by someone who had tremendous threat value to himself. In other words, "you will do as I say, or else." Or else what? Maybe harm to his family members in Texas. 2) Lee Harvey Oswald vanished and someone else took his place. In addition to his mother being shocked that he was not at school in Switzerland, his brother tried to contact LHO in Moscow via the U.S. Embassy. His Mom tried to bring in Jim Wright to figure out what was going on. By all accounts LHO was not a political person, and he quite clearly stated that he was not a communist. He did share ideas from Marx, but so did the church that he was associating with in the USA, and that church maintained a college he had made plans to attend in Switzerland. That church was an amalgamation of two denominations - the Universalists and the Unitarians. Neither would have found favor in Dallas, Texas during 1959, because that was the home of the first real mega-church conducted as an outreach of the Southern Baptists. Their ideological doctrine linked communism with Satanism (Billy Graham wrote that and used it as part of his title for a secular magazine article. Graham was also a member of the Dallas church.) That was the Dallas church of Pastor Criswell and he was an advocate of Pre-Millennial-ism. That doctrine taken from the Bible, warned of a revived Roman Empire. Its political head would be called 'The Beast', and its spiritual head 'The False Prophet'. This entity, possibly known as the United States of Europe, would one day attack the USA and destroy it. Then it would turn on a united USSR-China communist coalition and commence the final war culminating in the 'Battle (at) Armageddon'. This coming WWIII would necessitate the return of Jesus Christ to Jerusalem as King of kings and Lord of lords, and all war would then cease for one thousand years. This doctrine of Pre-Millennial-ism has many variations on the same theme, and Herbert W. Armstrong (who certainly did not like the Southern Baptists), was a great advocate of this ideology which was broadcast for half an hour each day over stations such as KRLD-AM (50kW), in Dallas. That is the climate to which Edwin Walker returned, and John Birch Society members would not find their political views out of step with Pre-Millennial beliefs. However, Lee Harvey Oswald was not a party to any of this. He was on the most liberal and all-inclusive side of religion, and the Universalist-Unitarians were also promoters of a pacifist approach to conflict. Unfortunately those views don't seem to fit the description of the USSR, or the USA, and they certainly had no place in Dallas, Texas of 1959. But pacifism is not a word that we now associate with Lee Harvey Oswald. ................................................................................................................ as an addendum David, I probably know more about the theological differences between various groups (such as the Society of Friends), than you do. Please don't correct me for things I never stated. As for your interests - they are your interests. My interest in the entire JFK matter is a side issue attached to a greater investigation. I am not and never have been involved with any JFK group. I can claim by 'accident' of geography to having lived next door' (so to speak) to the grave of LHO, and I can also claim to have driven so many times that I have lost count over the spot where JFK got shot. As I passed by I noticed all the tourists on the grassy knoll taking pictures and then returned to the real world. I am NOT a JFK addict. I don't like the man, or his brother and I have no interest in their glorification. I just want to know more about the involvement of people and events that collide with my research project. Please read the threads that you start! Mervyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Hagger Posted May 14, 2018 Author Share Posted May 14, 2018 2 hours ago, David Josephs said: Please don't correct me for things I never stated. As for your interests - they are your interests. My interest in the entire JFK matter is a side issue attached to a greater investigation. I am not and never have been involved with any JFK group. I can claim by 'accident' of geography to having lived next door' (so to speak) to the grave of LHO, and I can also claim to have driven so many times that I have lost count over the spot where JFK got shot. As I passed by I noticed all the tourists on the grassy knoll taking pictures and then returned to the real world. I am NOT a JFK addict. I don't like the man, or his brother and I have no interest in their glorification. I just want to know more about the involvement of people and events that collide with my research project. Please read the threads that you start! ================================================== I post like this to fully explain the thinking and sources... you're looking at one piece of the puzzle and pretending it's not attached to any other part of the same puzzle... doesn't really work that way. Sir, I have and I do. As you've said, your interest in the JFK aspect of this discussion is limited - which is the very reason you seem to be happy coming to conclusions that don't take the rest of the case into consideration. As for "driving over the spot" - I doubt very highly that you know where those spots actually were... that "X" on the road is yet another fairytale like this trip to ASC you seem so fixated upon... as I've been writing now for a few years... The Evidence IS the Conspiracy MH - Point please to the things of yours I've corrected.... for it is most difficult to CORRECT something when the author is only speculating on whether they are facts in the first place. If you are talking Quakers and Unitarians... time to move on... this has nothing to do with the religious aspect of any of this... he never went to ASC for he was never supposed to go - he was part of a military/CIA defector program... Is that concept truly too much to digest? That a COVER STORY was created so it did not look like a Marine was sent to Russia as a spy... You think WEBSTER was a trade show exhibitor for RAND? And then there's DUTKANICZ... https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=112143&search=dutkanicz#relPageId=2&tab=page who was so much like Oswald a comparison sheet was done: You've arrived at these two options: 1) Lee Harvey Oswald was confronted by someone who had tremendous threat value to himself. In other words, "you will do as I say, or else." Or else what? Maybe harm to his family members in Texas. 2) Lee Harvey Oswald vanished and someone else took his place And I'm saying we're nowhere near that point in the discussion.... plus, you offer less than nothing in support of your theory... Just as plausible an explanation is "Oswald was pretending to be going to ASC - he was part of a defector program" Mervyn... there were quite a few others at that time.... Why is that angle on this trip so hard for you to accept in lieu of being FORCED into defecting? I truly believe you are forgetting with what we are dealing and making this more about religion than is called for... the entire point of the defector program and this trip was to get Oswald into Russia... period. To gain some insight into what goes on there... I have a few questions What do you suppose the chances of Oswald NOT getting accepted to ASC were? In Southern CA in March 1959 - where did Oswald get the application with the RI Reverend's name on it? The acceptance letter from ASC states the forms he sent were the wrong ones, to redo them with the forms now sent and send a copy to the Rev... except if you look closely, the single application we do have was signed 3/4/59.... how does the paperwork all get redone and resent... and when does Oswald learn he is accepted? For if we continue looking for such an acceptance... we are hard pressed to find one yet if your theory is correct... Oswald being accepted is definitely a prerequisite for clandestine travel as a spy... no? Why is the "Application to ASC" so different and only a small piece of the application sent to RI? or is this simply all we have in evidence related to these forms? From John Armstrong's notebooks we have a response from Ernest Cassara who was the interim director at ASC in the 63-64 school year.... ... the International Association for Religious Freedom... appears more the mover/shaker here.... and I understood there to be some concerns with that org... the IARF... "The International Association for Religious Freedom (IARF) is a charitable organization that works for religious freedom around the world. It was founded in Boston in 1900 and is the oldest international interfaith group." David, a lot of stuff and your own conclusions. I have no conclusions unless I have strict proof, and strict proof is not conjecture. I referred to me driving over the spot where JFK was hit, because I was driving a car and somewhere on that stretch of road, he was hit. Therefore your inference is totally out of place. Same goes for the grave of LHO, but I have said it before and I will say it again, I was not into the JFK assassination cult then, and I am not into it now. My interest is exactly how I have stated it and I am not going to repeat it having spelled it out so many times before. Thank you for your exhibits. They are interesting. But can you go into a courtroom now and prove your own hypothesis? Of course not, that is why you have not done so. For 50 years a lot of hot air and copies of documents have wafted around. But that is all. The official record still stands. One last thing. Before anyone starts thinking about politics in some concerted manner, they always turn to a form of organized religion. It is the prevailing religion of 1963 in Dallas that puts "the fear of God" into people to act the way they do, it is not political sloganeering. You are shutting out from consideration a key to unlocking mysteries, although you do refer to the Unitarian-Universalist religion, while failing to understand it. I am not into any organized religion or political organization. I am a passing observer on the scene who is unravelling a mystery that collides with the assassination of JFK. But until you can offer me strict proof that LHO left UK Immigration at Southampton and LHO handed in his US Passport for stamping at Heathrow, and then you can produce the ticket to show where he went (if indeed it was him), then all of your speculation ends before it starts in 1959 in England. Mervyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Truly not necessary to re-quote the entire post.... I appreciate your focus.... hopefully as you continue to look you will find that as hard as you try, no part of this exists on an island. Calling it a "Cult" is also not anything that will ingratiate you here... do you normally walk into other's houses and begin by insulting their intelligence? 11 minutes ago, Mervyn Hagger said: But until you can offer me strict proof that LHO left UK Immigration at Southampton and LHO handed in his US Passport for stamping at Heathrow, and then you can produce the ticket to show where he went (if indeed it was him), then all of your speculation ends before it starts in 1959 in England Sir, I've already provided you with evidence stating LEE OSWALD left the Marines in March 1959.... with his records sent to Washington DC by Gorsky... so telling me that OSWALD was in the marines in Sept 1959, got a passport and went to New Orleans is in direct conflict with established evidence... Your hard line about 50 years of hot air is understood, from someone with so little interest in the case... and yet again you sh#t all over your hosts... That an "official line" has not been changed it vintage GARY MACK... how often does a corrupt history get rewritten? And "one last thing" for me as well... your mixing of religion and political marketing is a rookie mistake and well understood... the "Selling" of ideas and ways to think has been fostered upon the US people for longer than you want to know... religion notwithstanding... Religion added to the POV and the thought process, but discounting what the US Gov't did to "the People" over the past 80 years leaves me thinking you're not aware of the actual history of the US but only the homogenated version sold to kids in school and to adults in a manner we like to call ... Marketing. This is a JFK forum Mervyn... you might consider that when commenting here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Davies Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 Well said Mr. Josephs!☺ (Or dare I say, amen!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Ward Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said: Interesting thread though. I think Mervyn Hagger has shown us that Albert Schweitzer College was mentioned in many newspapers throughout the 50s, which kind of deflates the narrative that says Oswald would never have found this school on his own; what do you think? 12 hours ago, David Josephs said: Bjorn is important... he takes the time to recall a semester at ASC (you know anyone else writing about being there?) yet none of the student rolls has him listed... hmmm, who do we know that creates bogus documents as back stories to their covert ops David, I appreciate your posted evidence very much! But this point is really weak - someone lies about being attending college and this means he is CIA? Are all liars CIA? Or just the ones who lie about college? 12 hours ago, David Josephs said: There would be very little reason for our Oswald to be going to ASC DISAGREE Oswald is required by law to stay in the US as a condition of his Marines discharge. He is on active reserve, which restricts foreign travel. However, there's one convenient way to travel overseas in this scenario. Active Reservists are permitted overseas travel for educational purposes. Oswald wants to travel and he needs a quickie/easy college program to sign up for -¡voila!- world renowned Albert Schweizer College is offering all young Americans precisely the kind of cover that Vietnam draft dodgers would use shortly after Oswald. Using "college" as a way to get around military regulations is quite common - Oswald was neither the first nor last. Jason Edited May 15, 2018 by Jason Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Hagger Posted May 15, 2018 Author Share Posted May 15, 2018 8 hours ago, David Josephs said: Truly not necessary to re-quote the entire post.... I appreciate your focus.... hopefully as you continue to look you will find that as hard as you try, no part of this exists on an island. Calling it a "Cult" is also not anything that will ingratiate you here... do you normally walk into other's houses and begin by insulting their intelligence? Sir, I've already provided you with evidence stating LEE OSWALD left the Marines in March 1959.... with his records sent to Washington DC by Gorsky... so telling me that OSWALD was in the marines in Sept 1959, got a passport and went to New Orleans is in direct conflict with established evidence... Your hard line about 50 years of hot air is understood, from someone with so little interest in the case... and yet again you sh#t all over your hosts... That an "official line" has not been changed it vintage GARY MACK... how often does a corrupt history get rewritten? And "one last thing" for me as well... your mixing of religion and political marketing is a rookie mistake and well understood... the "Selling" of ideas and ways to think has been fostered upon the US people for longer than you want to know... religion notwithstanding... Religion added to the POV and the thought process, but discounting what the US Gov't did to "the People" over the past 80 years leaves me thinking you're not aware of the actual history of the US but only the homogenated version sold to kids in school and to adults in a manner we like to call ... Marketing. This is a JFK forum Mervyn... you might consider that when commenting here. Let's get a few things into the open and made very, very clear: 1. I consider any obsession that involves other people and which dominates their thinking or interpretation of issues, to be cult-like behavior. The JFK assassination is like a magnate for addressing followers - just like the 'Elvis' and other 'tribute' group cults. These cults are selective in which bits become their agreed upon narrative, but when disagreements among groups of followers occurs, the cult splits. It still has its overall focus, but each group is formed around a new teacher who leads the group. (I love the movie 'Life of Brian' for its scene involving the followers of the sandal and the gourd.) 2. If I wanted to know about Elvis, I might indeed join a group to see what its members have discovered. But that is all. 3. My goal is to enlighten and educate, it is not to follow anyone for anything. I am not a member of any political or religious organization and this allows me to see things as an observer of the passing scene. Therefore I appreciate information gleaned from Earl Warren, William O. Douglas and especially Hugo L. Black regarding interpretive constitutional law. But I also listen for about an hour each weekday to Rush Limbaugh (while I doing something else), since I can turn to just about any other source and hear or read some view attacking Donald Trump. If I want to know about the Baptists, I will go to their historical records, but I will also delve into the historical records of those who were Baptists and no longer are. In other words I accept solid and provable evidence wherever it may be found. (I do the same thing regarding Jewish history, Catholic history, etc., etc.) Similarly, I appreciate the illustrations you have provided. They are very helpful, and I will employ them further. 4. I made a statement that I accepted that the evidence proves that LHO departed from UK Immigration in 1959, and then he vanished. I also acknowledge the triangular stamp in his U.S. Passport which indicates that the U.S. Passport was in proximity to the rubber stamp used at Heathrow Airport. It does not follow that LHO was at Heathrow Airport. In this regard I am in lock-step with Jason Ward who tries to keep all timeline recitals within the boundaries of what can be proved in terms of strict evidence that could be introduced into a court of law. He has brought to our attention the fact that LHO used the 'escape' valve of education to legitimately leave the U.S. Marines. You do not seem to like this fact in evidence because you ignore it. So, Jason keeps on repeating it. You do the same thing to me. I state something and you might quote it, but your response is often to something I did not say, which carries the implication that I did say it. That is very much a sign of cultish behavior. 5.You claim that I am making a 'rookie mistake' because I see the big picture which is composed of religion (first) and (then) politics. Then you state that I am"....not aware of the actual history of the US but only the homogenated version sold to kids in school and to adults in a manner we like to call ... Marketing." I laugh. Clearly you do not know who I am or what I have been doing before I arrived here. 6. I am still chuckling over your ignorance stated in (5) above, so when you finally tell me: "This is a JFK forum Mervyn... you might consider that when commenting here", I read that as your own admonition for me to leave my brain outside and follow the hallowed teachers. I am to be quiet and absorb the accepted and delivered narrative, because, to you, "rookies" should be seen and not heard from. I am here David, for as long as it takes me to learn what has been uncovered (or not) in the past 50 years. I am discovering that smart guys like Jason Ward are doing the same thing. What Jason is doing here I don't know because I have never met Jason, but I certainly respect what he is doing while he is here. In fact David, you should pay attention to Jason because he is also looking for strict proof and when he points out that you are overlooking information in order to support your narrative, you should really pay attention, because if you don't you are in danger of drowning in cultist fiction, and there is plenty of that on this Forum for everyone to absorb (or not). Mervyn Hagger, Investigator of Cultural Origins https://mervynhagger.academia.edu/ http://foundthreads.com http://pebbletheatre.com/project.html http://yesterguide.org/20.html https://www.mixcloud.com/mervyn-hagger/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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