Ron Bulman Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 "He was part of the continuing problem and so was his brother." Really? Some believe he was murdered for trying to change the continuing problem for the better from within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Just read what I wrote on the Desperate Measures in the Congo thread. That is called evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 18, 2018 Author Share Posted May 18, 2018 12 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: BTW, David, let us not quit trying to figure out who paid for the two hotels in Helsinki. To me that has not been answered yet. I mean if someone else did not pay for them why would Oswald stay there? I sent John the question as well.... weren’t credit cards introduced around then.... AmEx. Diners club.... idk Prepaid? A billing agreement....? Where did you get these hotels were so classy? Look them up now and they’re $250 a night places .... Not exactly 5 stars... and why leave Torni if it’s paid for? Do we have any evidence he was anywhere other than the hotels and consular office? Y’know like MX. With no other record of activities... was it even our Ozzie. I mean what’s he doing for a few days, alone in Helsinki? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paz Marverde Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Might it not simply be that, at that time, the travel was longer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 18, 2018 Author Share Posted May 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Paz Marverde said: Might it not simply be that, at that time, the travel was longer? Paz... we are not so concerned with the time taken as with the manner of payment for his time there... With so little money, a $50- $100 a night hotel would be out of the question.... the "student" should be looking for Youth Hostels or other inexpensive means of hanging around waiting for his VISA into Russia... Know it usually take much longer he MUST have known to use Golub (or was directed) otherwise he'd have to spend a week or more at these high price hotels... the closer one looks, the more it appears the path is being cleared for him... If there were relationships between the CIA and these Hotels, which would make sense, then some other means of payment was performed.... One has to wonder who is footing the bill and how the money is either given to Oswald or paid directly.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 We know how upscale the hotels were because Ian Griggs visited them in person. He took pictures of them for his book No Case to Answer. At that time people like Nelson Rockefeller and Sibelius stayed at the Torni. So I do not buy Oswald staying there unless someone else paid for it. But who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hume Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) Jim, was Ian or anyone else able to come up with a ballpark price for those hotel rooms? Edited May 18, 2018 by Tom Hume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Ian tried to get the records from 1959 but the hotel had changed ownership in the seventies and they could not be located. The external pics are in his book, I have seen the internal pics online. BTW, Russian premier Kosygin also stayed there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hume Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Thanks Jim, and there's this too: "Oswald and the Helsinki Hotel", by Ian Griggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hume Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) Sorry, I forgot to post this link to "Oswald and the Helsinki Hotel", by Ian Grigs in the post above: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=4270#relPageId=10&tab=page Only two pages long and quite interesting. Edited May 18, 2018 by Tom Hume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 18, 2018 Author Share Posted May 18, 2018 https://www.opednews.com/articles/2/THE-JFK-CASE--THE-TWELVE-by-Bill-Simpich-100830-157.html?p=2&f=THE-JFK-CASE--THE-TWELVE-by-Bill-Simpich-100830-157.html A REDCAP/LCIMPROVE memo dated 8/28/59 has Costille discussing how he set up the date for Golub with the trusted Finnish girl - there was a lot of alcohol and flirtation, but no actual sex. The central focus of this memo was that Soviet consul Gregory Golub would issue visas immediately and without Moscow approval. "As long as the Americans had made travel arrangements through a local travel bureau, as well as hotel reservations, (Golub) said he had no objections to giving them a visa in a matter of minutes." So he already had reservations at Torni and one would assume this is done thru Intourist... yet Intourist is a Russian travel agency.... so we'd have to assume it was chock full 'o spies.... but not making reservations for American defectors.... I have to wonder when the train reservations were made from Helsinki to Vyborg crossing and then to Moscow... http://retours.eu/en/39-intourist-USSR-posters/ http://www.intourist.com/about.aspx?id=9804958¤cy=USD RISE 1954-1973 The Intourist Charter adopted in 1955 provided for the development of both domestic and foreign tourism as well as the reception of foreigners passing through the USSR in transit. Intourist received authorization to become a member of various national and international organisations, commissions, etc. The development of international ties and the consolidation of the Eastern Bloc countries resulted in the emergence of other organisationsauthorised to arrange foreign tours for our compatriots, such as the Sputnik Youth Tourism Bureau, the Union of Societies of Friendship with Foreign Countries, and others. Nevertheless, Intourist continued to hold the leading position in both the size and variety of services. In 1956 about half a million foreign citizens from 84 countries — 5 times more than during the pre-war decade — visited the Soviet Union. And more than one million Soviet people went abroad in the same year. In 1964 the number of foreign tourists visiting the USSR exceeded 1 million people, and more than 900 thousand Soviet citizens travelled abroad. Intourist did its best to make it possible for ordinary citizens of our country to travel abroad and to increase their travel options. The activities of Intourist promoted the establishment of warmer human relations among nations. Intourist became a major partner of more than 700 tourist companies operating in one hundred countries around the world. About 100 VAO Intourist offices and agencies were operating on the territory of the USSR.During the period from 1966 to 1972, forty tourists facilities including hotels, motels and campsites were constructed in 30 of the country’s cities. In 1969 the Directorate was transformed into the Main Directorate of the Council of Ministers of the USSR. VAO Intourist entered this body having the rights of a Commercial Directorate. Sergey Nikitin was the head of the Main Directorate on foreign tourism, Victor Boychenko was his deputy and the chief of the Commercial Directorate. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/sexual-blackmail-russia-style-a-history-of-kompromat-1.2934451 When the Soviet Union set up the Intourist hotel and travel company under Stalin, the bellboys, drivers, cooks and maids all worked for the NKVD, the secret police agency later known as the KGB. Also on the payroll were the prostitutes deployed to entrap and blackmail visiting foreign politicians and businessmen. Russia’s Intourist hotels have since been sold off, including the travel company’s once dowdy flagship hostelry just down the road from the Kremlin. Lavishly refurbished and fitted with a spa and special security features, the hotel is now the Ritz-Carlton, a five-star temple of luxurious living that promotes itself as an “unforgettable retreat in the heart of the city”. But, according to uncorroborated and highly defamatory memos prepared by a former British intelligence operative for a Washington political and corporate research firm, the Ritz has remained a place where foreign guests, including Donald Trump, can fall victim to the Russian art of “kompromat”, the collection of compromising material as a source of leverage. https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/AERODYNAMIC VOL. 17 (OPERATIONS)_0063.pdf 4. Expansion of Fl Collection Mechanism. The following types of expansion seem desirable: A. Similar to the NTS, the AECASSOWARIES have sought for several years to create operational residenturas in various Free World areas to which Soviet Ukrainians normally travel, e.g., Istanbul, Athens, Rome, Naples, Paris, London, Helsinki, Stockholm, etc. So far, residenturas exist only in New York, Munich, Paris, Istanbul (one man who is having a rough time with it), Stockholm, London, Winnipeg and Edmonton. Lack of funds and case officer time to help push this AECASSOWARY effort have been the main obstacles. Young, intelligent and highly motivated men and women are available for these jobs. On our side we do not have peo ple available to handle the training and briefing Of resident agents nor have we selected anyone to be in contact with them in their area of operations. https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP75-00149R000700220013-0.pdf Gloria Steinem worked with CIA to organize groups of American youth to attend World Youth Festivals in Vienna and Helsinki in 1959 & 1962. https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP75-00149R000800100020-4.pdf National Student Association (NSA) gets funds from CIA to send kids to festivals - including those with Communist sponsorship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 David: That memo says that Americans set up the hotel reservations. And then Golub would process the visa. That hotel predates Stalin in its construction and there is no hint in either of Griggs' pieces that it was under Soviet control in the fifties. Griggs does say something interesting. Perhaps he stayed there in order to meet up with someone and they then transferred to the Klaus Kurki. Why, I do not know. I am beginning to think this is a riddle that will not be solved. Like many others in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 18, 2018 Author Share Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) Context... Anatoli Golitsyn was granted political asylum when he surrendered to CIA Station Chief in HELSINKI in late 1959... I can't seem to find the name of that chief.... found the memos sent but the name is always redacted.... Oswald shows up in a few weeks... sources state he was the first to use the quick turnaround visa process described in a recent memo chronologically... Setting a reservation is just a phone call... I'd think... (I like how WEBSTER and OSWALD are listed as "Tourists" on the defector's list... Edited May 18, 2018 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 18, 2018 Author Share Posted May 18, 2018 https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/REDCAP_0033.pdf Operational/ZRPENNY (ZRPENNY Activity to counter Cuban student participation in communist-sponsored world youth festival in Helsinki in 1962.) 8th World Youth Festival... Festival in 1959 was in Vienna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Some interesting goings-on in Helsinki in 1962. Code for Helsink is confusing. It appears to be both 19-1 and 14-1. On 5/16/2018 at 9:54 PM, Michael Clark said: https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/157-10008-10211.pdf List of attachments, some missing including 13. Memo... record... AMLASH 1 meeting, 29 October, 63. Dated 13 November 63. 14. Contact Plan CSAS meeting AMLASH in ****** undated 15. Cover for C/SAS meeting AMLASH 1 ******* undated 16. Scenario for C/SAS meeting with AMLASH -1 in ****** updated 17. Fall back position for AMLASH 1 undated 18. Memo Record plans for AMLASH 1 contact. Dated 19 November 1963 19, Contact report AMLASH 1. 22 Nov. 63 in ******* dated 25. Nov. 63 20 . Director. Dated 18 Dec. 63 21. JMWAVE dated 7 Dec. 1963 ------------- Page 5. "Here", presumably the location of the "World Youth Festival" = Helsinki = 14-1 (Also AMWHIP, AMLASH-1) P. 11. Location Code. 19-1 p. 14. 19-6, 14-6 loc. Codes ------------- ( does this doc dispute the identity of AMLASH, AMWHIP?) AMWHIP 1 and AMLASH 1 Interestingly, this document is dated to August, 1962. The Mary Farrell site indicates that AMLASH was recruited in 1963 AMWHIP-1- Carlos Tepedino Gonzalez, a Cuban exile living in the U.S. who was a "long-time friend" of Rolando Cubela (AMLASH). AMWHIP-1 arranged the 1961 meeting between a CIA case officer and Cubela, who was recruited to attempt to assassinate Fidel Castro. AMLASH. Rolando Cubela Secades, a Cuban doctor and official who was recruited in 1963 for an assassination attempt on Castro. Cubela stated that Castro had to be eliminated before any coup could succeed and had initially requested a high powered rifle from the CIA. The CIA balked at that and Cubela was being given a CIA poison pen on Nov 22 when news of JFK's death broke. Suspicion remains that Cubela may have been acting as a dangle to the CIA by Castro; that is fueled by his lenient treatment after being exposed and convicted of treason. Why is there a note in the margins of page 10, asking where LHO stayed on July 30, of 1962, while discussing a meeting betweem AMLASh- 1 and AMWHIP-1 in Helsinki? p. 11. Location Code. 19-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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