Jump to content
The Education Forum
Paz Marverde

Who changed the motorcade route?

Recommended Posts

On 6/8/2018 at 4:17 PM, Rick McTague said:

Proving Rich's observation.

Of course, he meant the exact same make and model of rifle and exact same make and model of the scope.

Rich, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Rick 

Rick,

No, you're correct.  I meant the same make and model.

Rich

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/10/2018 at 10:42 PM, David Von Pein said:

 

The fact that the rifle paperwork doesn't fit properly is less clear and about as relevant as the fact that the rifle  in evidence and alleged ammunition couldn't replicate the wounds in Kennedy's body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYW08djFNmg&t=6m10s

No LN would be willing to argue for an exit in Kennedy's FACE, right?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still believe Oswald went to work in the TSBD on October 16, 1963 because he was told to go there and apply.  As part of his ongoing use as a CIA asset in an operation that might take place at that location.  He could be useful as a patsy.  Hiring him required someone inside the TSBD organization to be another CIA asset, not necessarily Truly but someone who told him to and to cooperate with other "patriots".  Persons organizing such a plot would only have done so if they were confident they could draw a motorcade past the TSBD into the kill zone of their snipers and thus blame the patsy.  Naturally they would obfuscate about the motorcade route to the public/papers/local police, as well as any inquiries.  After all, they could just wait out any of the last.  Until the Warren Omission was official.  Per the Ghost, JJA (last part). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone read Jerome Corsi's book on the JFK assassination?

Rich

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Rich Pope said:

Has anyone read Jerome Corsi's book on the JFK assassination?

Rich

Why?  Did you find something new in it that everyone else who has read it missed?  Something on the motorcade route?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David Lifton says:

"As the 3 cycle officers who led the motorcade emerged from the Triple Underpass, a photographer--McIntyre (not sure of spelling)--was standing somewhere on a grassy island just to the west of the TU--and he snapped an important photograph. It shows the 3 cyclists leading the way, with the chaos erupting behind them--i.e., with JFK's car, Curry's vehicle and others, now racing away from Dealey Plaza, and just emerging from under the TU.  If you blow up that photograph, one can get a pretty clear image of those 3 cycle cops, and the general impression that I got (and still "get")  is that they are smiling broadly.  Perhaps its just the sunny weather?  Sure, that's possible, and yes, its possible that they are completely unaware of what's just happened; but I think (as the saying goes) a picture is worth a thousand words, and that further study is warranted. "

There should be 5 motorcycle cops there not 3.  The 3 Advance motorbikes are in front of the 5 Lead motorbikes.    The three motorbikes are the ones we see in Zapruder.  The 5 motorbikes come next are not seen in Zapruder and precede the lead car with Jesse Curry and then presidential limousine.  Most photos and films show 3.  Bell shows 5 in a few frames and also shows 3 as representative of the 5 lead motorbikes.

3 Advance motorbikes in McIntyre shows you that someone has altered that photo.  The question is where are the 5 Lead Motorcycles in McIntyre?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, John Butler said:

3 Advance motorbikes in McIntyre [sic] shows you that someone has altered that photo. 

Instead of jumping to the unwarranted conclusion that there must have been photo fakery, why not consider the obvious answer?

With that obvious answer being:

There are some additional motorcycles in front of the 3 cycles we see in the McIntire picture, and those additional cycles are simply out of the camera range of Mel McIntire's camera.

Plus....ask yourself:

Why would anyone want to alter the number of motorcycles seen in this photograph? ....

November-22-1963-JFKs-Car-Is-Seen-West-O

Edited by David Von Pein

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, John Butler said:

The three motorbikes are the ones we see in Zapruder.  The 5 motorbikes come next are not seen in Zapruder and precede the lead car with Jesse Curry and then presidential limousine.  Most photos and films show 3.  Bell shows 5 in a few frames and also shows 3 as representative of the 5 lead motorbikes.

FWIW...

I count eight (8) motorcycles riding in front of Chief Curry's Lead Car in this motorcade photo....

Dallas+Motorcade+On+Main+Street--11-22-6

Edited by David Von Pein

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 6/10/2018 at 4:13 PM, David Lifton said:

If you blow up that [Mel McIntire] photograph, one can get a pretty clear image of those 3 cycle cops, and the general impression that I got (and still "get") is that they are smiling broadly.

Huh? I don't know how you can conclude that the three motorcycle officers have smiles on their faces in the McIntire photo. In reality, none of them are smiling at all.

I sure don't see any of the motorcycle policemen "smiling broadly" here....

Mel-McIntire-11-22-63-Photo-JFK's-Car-Is-Seen-West-Of-The-Triple-Underpass-Just-After-Assassination

Edited by David Von Pein

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

FWIW...

I count eight (8) motorcycles riding in front of Chief Curry's Lead Car in this motorcade photo....

Dallas+Motorcade+On+Main+Street--11-22-6

David,

 

I was really struck by this picture. Why in the world would you pack that many people in that confined a space? Do you think the planners of the motorcade anticipated that kind of crowd, or did it take them by surprise? It looks like that crowd of people must be 20 deep in there.

 

Steve Thomas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Instead of jumping to the unwarranted conclusion that there must have been photo fakery, why not consider the obvious answer?

With that obvious answer being:

There are some additional motorcycles in front of the 3 cycles we see in the McIntire picture, and those additional cycles are simply out of the camera range of Mel McIntire's camera.

Plus....ask yourself:

Why would anyone want to alter the number of motorcycles seen in this photograph? ....

November-22-1963-JFKs-Car-Is-Seen-West-O

This is an exceptionally clear print, and I have re-examned it carefully.  I want to withdraw my previous remarks that the cyclists were smiling.

I no longer believe that to be the case.

DSL

6/15/2018 - 1:35 AM PDT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Instead of jumping to the unwarranted conclusion that there must have been photo fakery, why not consider the obvious answer?

With that obvious answer being:

There are some additional motorcycles in front of the 3 cycles we see in the McIntire picture, and those additional cycles are simply out of the camera range of Mel McIntire's camera.

Plus....ask yourself:

Why would anyone want to alter the number of motorcycles seen in this photograph? ....

November-22-1963-JFKs-Car-Is-Seen-West-O

This picture was also used to highlight a couple of things"

1) It gives you a better idea of where James Tague was standing on Commerce St. and his position in relation to the TSBD

2) Where are the railroad workers on the bridge? They left their position pretty quickly.

3) There is no train obscuring J.C. White's vision of the motorcade.

4) The picture was used to refute Tom Tilson's claim to have seen a man sliding down the embankment west of the underpass and get into a dark car parked there. (What are those bollards in the middle of the field anyway?)

 

Steve Thomas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Instead of jumping to the unwarranted conclusion that there must have been photo fakery, why not consider the obvious answer?

With that obvious answer being:

There are some additional motorcycles in front of the 3 cycles we see in the McIntire picture, and those additional cycles are simply out of the camera range of Mel McIntire's camera.

Plus....ask yourself:

Why would anyone want to alter the number of motorcycles seen in this photograph? ....

November-22-1963-JFKs-Car-Is-Seen-West-O

 

Thanks David Von Pein for making my point!  There should be 5 motobikes here.  They rode in formation.  Two are missing.  We can't assume anything other than what we see in this photo.

Or, you can assume whatever you want. 

 

FWIW...

I count eight (8) motorcycles riding in front of Chief Curry's Lead Car in this motorcade photo....

Dallas+Motorcade+On+Main+Street--11-22-6

 

There are 8 motorbikes.  3 advance motorbikes followed by 5 lead motorbikes.  When you do get to see the 5 lead motorbikes in various media they always ride together and not as a group of 3.

I don't know why the McIntyre photo is altered.  There doesn't seem to be a good reason for it except to match other films and photos.  Can't have a big discrepancy hanging out there for all to see. 

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by David Von Pein  

Edited by John Butler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry,

I have to correct something I wrote.  I did find where the 5 Lead Motorcycles did separate into two groups in the Marie Muchmore film.  The other assassination films are uninformative.  When the Lead motorbikes turned onto Houston Street from Main Street they separate into two groups.  First, there were 3 motorbikes making the turn.  They were closely followed by the other two.

This offers weak evidence that this was there procedure for making the turns that they needed to make.  First, there would be a group of 3 bikes and then there would be two bikes.

If this is case then McIntyre does not show a group of two following the group of 3. 

David Von Pein is saying that the missing two turned first towards the Stemmons Freeway. 

There may be away to solve this small argument.  Identify who the 3 motorbike cops are:

Advance Motorcycle Policemen:

  1. Sgt. S. G. Bellah

  2. Glen C. McBride

  3. J. S. Garrick

Lead Motorcycle Policemen:

  1. Leon E. Grey

  2. E. D. “Buddy” Brewer

  3. Harold B. Freeman

  4. W. G. Lumpkin

  5. Sgt. Stavis Ellis

The two outside men in both formations (screen right) are:

  1. Glen C. McBride

  2. Sgt. Stavis Ellis

The outside man in McIntyre looks like Glen C. McBride.  Is there anyone still around who can identify these men?  Maybe Mary Moorman?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Why?  Did you find something new in it that everyone else who has read it missed?  Something on the motorcade route?

Ron,

Well, there are some things in there that I didn't previously know.  For example, Sam Giancana says there were 4 shots...two from behind Kennedy and 2 from in front (Grassy Knoll).  This contradicts Johnny Roselli who says the kill shot came from the storm drain.  I haven't finished the book but Corsi does an outstanding job debunking the magic bullet theory.  

I think the motorcade route issue is settled.  At least it is as far as I'm concerned.

Rich

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×