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10 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

Andrej if you read their statements then it makes logical sense for any of them to step down and get a better view of Elm just after it happened.

Furthermore she is blond.

But I completely disagree with your drawing.

Shelley and Lovelady are gone. There is no jacket being worn by Molina!

There is no one behind Frazier and Molina.

Williams made his way up to the 4th floor. I have looked at the images and see no human shape or form in front of Molina like there is in Wiegman (where Williams stood in front of Molina).

Bart:

the Darnell scene could not change too much during the time which elapsed from the end of Wiegman till when Darnell captured the doorway, some 20 seconds. What the people in the doorway did (except Prayer Man) was that they optimised their views of the Tripple Underpass. The ladies in the lower eastern part of the doorway turned their heads more towards their right side. Mrs. Reese walked up from the sixth to the third step to tackle the problem that she was short and needed an elevated vantage point. Carl Jones left entirely after Wiegman and moved in direction of the Grassy Knoll. Otis Williams is at a similar spot in Darnell as he was in Altgens and Wiegman, he only changed arms; he was shielding his eyes with his right arm in Altgens and he used his left arm in Darnell. Mr. Frazier was close to the glass window, deep in the shadow in Wiegman, and he moved forwards to the spot which was occupied by Billy Lovelady seconds earlier. Billy Lovelady is seen stepping down at end of Wiegman, however, he stopped and is on the fifth step in Darnell. Joe Molina stepped down one step and rotated his torso towards his right and this together with Darnell's camera view angle causes him to be viewed from the profile. Mrs. Saunders moved slightly more towards the west so she is seen close to the middle door window in Darnell, and cannot be seen in Wiegman or Altgens. In Wiegman, she fell into the "dead space", a space not seen by Wiegman's camera. In Altgens, her small figure is hidden behind Shelley's figure. Mr. Shelley wore a suit, and he stood in the centre of the top landing throughout the films. Mrs. Stanton stood between Billy Lovelady and  Bill Shelley in Altgens and stepped back into the shadow and behind Mr. Shelley's right shoulder just before Darnell  film was shot.

As far as the two men seen in Couch/Darnell who you consider to be Shelley and Lovelady, I also believed that they would be them. I was mistaken. The man in suit is taller than the other man wearing the shirt which cannot be. Bill Shelly was only 5'6'', he was shorter than Billy Lovelady. Billy Lovelady had a disticnt forward head posture (a hunch) which that man in Couch/Darnell does not have.

While I was at ROKC, there was a gentleman there, I guess his name was Lee Farley. He was the first to raise the possibility that the man close to the western wall on the fifth step was Billy Lovelady. His suggestion did not fare well at that time, however, after looking at the film frames and checking all the details later, including the body height, I think Mr. Farley was correct and deserves a credit for his discovery.

If you would wish to discard Williams, Molina, Shelley and Lovelady as the doorway occupants in Darnell, you would need to say who are the people which are now unlabelled.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Andrej Stancak

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Lee Farley was wrong at that time. I think I put a comprehensive case forward that they had left.

I don't need to name anyone, for what purpose? The shooting has been done 15 seconds later people have moved to either get a better view or make their way inside. What is the point trying to ID them?

The differences between Wiegman and Darnell are legion.

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Bart:

I can see that you already made up your mind about the people in the doorway. I have added to your picture some lines which delineate the figure of who I think is Mrs. Stanton, just in case you would in future like to consider this option too.

 

barts.jpg?w=768

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