Sarah Stanton spoke to Oswald, holding a Coke, near stairway shortly before witnessing motorcade, according to Stanton relative....

[Ray Mitcham]

There is a reason why Doyle is unable to post his ramblings on here. He gratuitously insults anybody who disagrees with his daft ideas. He is unable to argue his points in a rational manner and, for a man who considers himself the world's greatest JFK expert,  changes his mind constantly depending on how and when his "theories" are shown to be crazy. For example in reply to one of his acolytes, who said " To me, Prayerman is possibly a female with her arms in a purse strap holding position", Doyle replied "I have a good eye for such things. If you look really closely Prayerman has a side part to his hair and a receding hairline making it very unlikely it was a woman."

Now he insists that Prayerman is  a woman, Sarah Stanton. 😀 

But with his "good eyes for such things"(LOL),   in  a few months time, he will probably say he can identify  Prayerman  as Jackie Kennedy.

I totally agree  that the image is too fuzzy to make a credible ID,  as you state, but then, you post the views of a person who not only can ID the blob, but can see the "buttons" on her dress. 

If he wants to post his ramblings on another site, that's his prerogative, but we don't want his crazy ideas contaminating this forum.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Ray Mitcham

[John Butler]

Ray,

 "I totally agree  that the image is too fuzzy to make a credible ID,".  Good comment.  If one goes back to the first comment I made on Prayer Man some time back I said that the image is too vague to really make a positive id.  But, it was very suggestive of Oswald.  Weigman, Darnell, and John Martin give about the same kind of image to view.  All are to vague to state this is Oswald.  About all you can say is that the images in Weigman, Darnell, and John Martin resemble each other and they are suggestive of Oswald.  And, that would be speculation.  However, that would be speculation based on experience and the facts of the images involved.

All in all, If I had to put my money down I would say Oswald or an Oswald double.

Edited August 1, 2018 by John Butler

[James R Gordon]

I am going to pause this thread for a period of time.

I have a reason, but at present I do not want to make it public.

James.

[Gerry Simone]

On 6/11/2018 at 4:47 PM, Andrej Stancak said:

Jim:

you may wish to check my analysis of the locations and body heights of Mrs. Stanton and Mrs. Sanders: http://thejfktruthmatters.wordpress.com (January 31).

 

Excellent work Andrej.

[John Butler]

On 8/1/2018 at 1:18 PM, John Butler said:

Ray,

 "I totally agree  that the image is too fuzzy to make a credible ID,".  Good comment.  If one goes back to the first comment I made on Prayer Man some time back I said that the image is too vague to really make a positive id.  But, it was very suggestive of Oswald.  Weigman, Darnell, and John Martin give about the same kind of image to view.  All are to vague to state this is Oswald.  About all you can say is that the images in Weigman, Darnell, and John Martin resemble each other and they are suggestive of Oswald.  And, that would be speculation.  However, that would be speculation based on experience and the facts of the images involved.

All in all, If I had to put my money down I would say Oswald or an Oswald double.

Ray's comment at that time was dead on.  Mine needs improvement.

I am certain that Prayer Man is a man and Oswald.  The Martin film, Couch/Darnell film, and Chris Davidson's gif showing PM with an expensive camera and camera flash, PM's red shirt in Martin (see Andrej Stancak), along with their general appearance, links PM to Oswald.  PM had a camera on Elm Street under the trees filming the p. limo as it went by at the time of the shooting.  Before Officer Baker ran into the building, PM moved to the steps of the TSBD and continued filming the motorcade.  He went into the recessed part of the landing taking cover and concealment due to the shooting.

 

   

[Gerry Simone]

I don't recall if I commented on this thread earlier but I attended a Lancer conference in 2015 which invited Buell Frazier and his son to speak (supposedly, a book was in the works).  Frazier only mentioned that Oswald came around to the front from the east side of the building (presumably from the rear entrance) after the shooting. 

 

[Gerry Simone]

19 minutes ago, John Butler said:

Ray's comment at that time was dead on.  Mine needs improvement.

I am certain that Prayer Man is a man and Oswald.  The Martin film, Couch/Darnell film, and Chris Davidson's gif showing PM with an expensive camera and camera flash, PM's red shirt in Martin (see Andrej Stancak), along with their general appearance, links PM to Oswald.  PM had a camera on Elm Street under the trees filming the p. limo as it went by at the time of the shooting.  Before Officer Baker ran into the building, PM moved to the steps of the TSBD and continued filming the motorcade.  He went into the recessed part of the landing taking cover and concealment due to the shooting.

 

   

I tend to think it resembles a man if not Oswald too.  Maybe the blurry quality of the image increases the person's girth. Is he holding a Coke (lol).  In any event, and further to my comment about what Frazier said at that Lancer Conference, I do believe that witnesses were intimidated or coerced to align with the prevailing scenario, if not ignored.  And if you were an African American, perhaps more troubling to be a witness in Oswald's favour (maybe those two who walked by the 1st floor lunchroom saw Oswald but only admitted to a vague recollection of seeing an employee having their lunch). There's the possibility that PM stepped out momentarily and went back inside, undetected by others.  However, after hearing shots, you'd think you'd stick around (unless that meant trouble for yourself or a plan was in place).

Edited December 16, 2021 by Gerry Simone

[John Butler]

5 hours ago, Gerry Simone said:

Maybe the blurry quality of the image increases the person's girth. Is he holding a Coke (lol).

Gerry,

I did think at one time PM was holding a coke.  But, the John Martin film changed that.  A PM figure on Elm Street is taking photos.  His camera flashes.   Then Chris Davidson showed that there was a camera flash with PM.

 

This connects the two.  No coke.  It is a camera.

This bit of evidence establishes one of the Oswald's innocence.  PM is Harvey Oswald the man shot at the Dallas Police Station.  There were two there.  Lee is a good candidate for Doorway Man in Altgens 6 altered into Billy Lovelady.  After the assassination he vanishes from history.  Almost all traces of Lee Oswald are removed from the media record.

I think Lee Oswald thought he might become the patsy if Harvey could establish an alibi.  So, that is why he is in the doorway of the TSBD at the time of the assassination on Elm.

This montage comparison is the best two photos I can find to compare Harvey and Lee.  Folks will swear these are the same person.  And, that's how they got away with the things that they did since they were children.

To me these are two different people:

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by John Butler

[Chris Davidson]

2 hours ago, John Butler said:

Gerry,

I did think at one time PM was holding a coke.  But, the John Martin film changed that.  A PM figure on Elm Street is taking photos.  His camera flashes.   Then Chris Davidson showed that there was a camera flash with PM.

 

 

 

What are you talking about.

Are you under the impression that the lightened circle, within the shadow area, around PM, is a camera flash?

Do you not understand that it was created by selecting that area and using lightening techniques in Photoshop.

Or, do you actually think the white object near the face is a camera flash?

Neither are a flash. See gif below.

Now, I did say at some point I thought the object near the face might be a camera or a mug or a ??? who knows.

 

 

 

[Gerry Simone]

12 hours ago, John Butler said:

Gerry,

I did think at one time PM was holding a coke.  But, the John Martin film changed that.  A PM figure on Elm Street is taking photos.  His camera flashes.   Then Chris Davidson showed that there was a camera flash with PM.

 

This connects the two.  No coke.  It is a camera.

This bit of evidence establishes one of the Oswald's innocence.  PM is Harvey Oswald the man shot at the Dallas Police Station.  There were two there.  Lee is a good candidate for Doorway Man in Altgens 6 altered into Billy Lovelady.  After the assassination he vanishes from history.  Almost all traces of Lee Oswald are removed from the media record.

I think Lee Oswald thought he might become the patsy if Harvey could establish an alibi.  So, that is why he is in the doorway of the TSBD at the time of the assassination on Elm.

This montage comparison is the best two photos I can find to compare Harvey and Lee.  Folks will swear these are the same person.  And, that's how they got away with the things that they did since they were children.

To me these are two different people:

 

 

Thanks for your reply.

I was joking about the Coke but I don't think that's a camera but more like a coffee mug or cup.

I don't rule out a Harvey and Lee (one real, one impostor), however, I believe that's Billy Lovelady by the edge of the doorway (you can faintly see the lines of the plaid shirt - if it's Lee wearing his speckled, reddish brown shirt that he wore that morning, it would appear more as a solid, dark colour from where Altgens is shooting).  There are other pics of Lovelady walking moments later with Shelley out front and the shirt matches what we see by the doorway.

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Gerry Simone

[Gerry Simone]

10 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

What are you talking about.

Are you under the impression that the lightened circle, within the shadow area, around PM, is a camera flash?

Do you not understand that it was created by selecting that area and using lightening techniques in Photoshop.

Or, do you actually think the white object near the face is a camera flash?

Neither are a flash. See gif below.

Now, I did say at some point I thought the object near the face might be a camera or a mug or a ??? who knows.

 

 

 

Agreed. Thanks for your GIF.  It looks like that person is raising a coffee cup or mug to their mouth to take a sip.

[John Butler]

10 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

What are you talking about.

Are you under the impression that the lightened circle, within the shadow area, around PM, is a camera flash?

Do you not understand that it was created by selecting that area and using lightening techniques in Photoshop.

Or, do you actually think the white object near the face is a camera flash?

Neither are a flash. See gif below.

Now, I did say at some point I thought the object near the face might be a camera or a mug or a ??? who knows.

 

 

 

Chris,

Yes.  But, now under different circumstances.

I have been saying this for months or longer.  This is the first time you've noticed this?   If so, you should have spoken up earlier.  It is my clear and firm belief PM has a camera and it flashes not only on Elm Street but also in the doorway of the TSBD.

Now, because of your mysterious and ambiguous posts lacking full information or a least a modest explanation I have to go back to acknowledging a maybe yes/maybe no position could be there.  Your lighten circles do suggest a camera flash.  No mug or coke bottle.  Unless you altered the frame then then you can only lighten what is there.   

If it is not a camera flash I don't know what it is.  It certainly shines to much for a cup or bottle.  These are images from you gif without your adjustments.

No big deal.  If you say so, then I won't repeat what I have said again.  This is still enough to say there was a camera and a flash.  The object is too bright for a mug or bottle. 

The basic storyline is still the same.  This is sufficient evidence to say one of the Oswalds is innocent and not connected to the assassination except by filming the event.  He went back to Irving to get a camera, not curtain rods.

I have to laugh here.  At least now people are suggesting PM has a coke or mug in his hands.  That's an improvement over the years from praying PM praying.  I think there is more than enough to say more.  Maybe years later someone might notice there is some value to what is being said here. 

Edited December 17, 2021 by John Butler

[John Butler]

1 hour ago, Gerry Simone said:

 

Thanks for your reply.

I was joking about the Coke but I don't think that's a camera but more like a coffee mug or cup.

I don't rule out a Harvey and Lee (one real, one impostor), however, I believe that's Billy Lovelady by the edge of the doorway (you can faintly see the lines of the plaid shirt - if it's Lee wearing his speckled, reddish brown shirt that he wore that morning, it would appear more as a solid, dark colour from where Altgens is shooting).  There are other pics of Lovelady walking moments later with Shelley out front and the shirt matches what we see by the doorway.

 

Oswald was wearing neither.  He wore a reddish, or a reddish brown, solid color shirt.  Look at the WC exhibits.  Read up on Andrej Stancak's work.  Oswald went back to his rented room and changed into that shirt everyone is familiar with.  The one he has on at the Texas Theater.  Later, Lovelady said he was wearing a short sleeve shirt.  Red Stripes if I am recalling correctly.  Sure, there are plenty of photos showing that he had a different shirt on other than a short sleeve shirt.  This is the shirt he said he had on.

 

To put that brown striped shirt on Oswald in the Doorway is wrong.  To suggest that the shirt Lovelady was wearing is actually the shirt in the photo is also wrong.

Of course, Lovelady might not be telling the truth.  If so, what does that say about the rest of what he said?  Here is a shot of Lovelady in his matching Altgens 6 Doorway Man shirt from the John Martin film:

The John Martin film was a color film.  If you notice this frame then you will see it is an altered black and white photo with some colored and some not.  This is not the same shirt we see on Doorway Man.  Seeing these broad blocks and black stripes on Doorway Man's shirt is wishful thinking.  This is just another example of the countless examples of film editing in Dealey Plaza.

There are other features in Altgens that show that Doorway Man is not Lovelady.  One is the abnormal shoulder and arm of Doorway Man.  

There was not enough time to do this alteration correctly.  It was sent to the AP in New York within an hour or so when someone noticed that Doorway Man was somebody that was not supposed to be there.  It had to be altered more so than what it had been.

 

     

Edited December 17, 2021 by John Butler

[Chris Davidson]

53 minutes ago, John Butler said:

I have been saying this for months or longer.  This is the first time you've noticed this?   If so, you should have spoken up earlier.  Now, because of your mysterious and ambiguous posts lacking full information or a least a modest explanation I have to go back to acknowledging a maybe yes/maybe no position could be there.  

 

 

Why don't you locate my original posting with the gif above, where I'm pretty sure I described that I attached the Photoshop adjustments in the gif, if it wasn't obvious enough to begin with.

What do you think the "OK, Cancel, Load,Save, Preview" buttons represented?

Maybe if you would show everyone the entire gif I posted, which included the curves dialogue box attached to those buttons, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

 

 

[John Butler]

3 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

Why don't you locate my original posting with the gif above, where I'm pretty sure I described that I attached the Photoshop adjustments in the gif, if it wasn't obvious enough to begin with.

What do you think the "OK, Cancel, Load,Save, Preview" buttons represented?

Maybe if you would show everyone the entire gif I posted, which included the curves dialogue box attached to those buttons, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

 

 

Chris,

We are not really having a conversation.  As far as I am concerned, this is the end of it.