Jump to content
The Education Forum
Rich Pope

Alternative Assassins (names)

Recommended Posts

On 7/14/2018 at 10:32 AM, Michael Clark said:

I just don't think it is helpful. We now use the word to embody all kinds of things we hate, despise or fear. 

NAZIS were German National Socialists. They were truly Socialists,  And they were truly German nationalists. When people throw around the term now it just seems silly and ignorant. 

Likewise, Fascism is a system where a single party rules, to the exclusion of all others, and that party's head becomes authoritarian by the very fact that all other parties are excluded from power. 

A great deal of power that is generated by the language that people choose to use fizzles-away when they make poor word choices. 

It is better to use an entire sentence make a point or describe an entity than attempt to use a single word as a shortcut and have your entire argument fizzle away like the sparkle in your seltzer.

Michael, i understand your confusion, but the Nazi's were not "truly socialists." To understand why they named themselves a "Socialist" party, you have to understand that at the  time. There was a worldwide depression,that was brought on by the International financial interests, and common people held pure Capitalism in scorn. "Socialism" was becoming  increasingly popular and the far right leaders of the  Nazi party decided to throw the word "socialist' into their name to attract workers away from communism and into their brand of populist nationalism. 

The people that mattered to the Nazi's, were the International bankers, the Rothschilds, Du Ponts, Rockefellers, and to a lesser extent families like the  Bush's and Union Bank and others, who could finance their economic recovery that was depleted badly as result of reparations and financial terms they were forced to accept after WWl. These people   did not see them at all in a Socialist vein, but as a country they could do business with and enjoy complete protection from the fascist state. The event that truly frightened them was the Bolshevik Revolution and the Russians, as they rightly saw them as the greatest obstacle to the Capitalist system. The term "Socialist" connotes a greater role of government, and I'm sure the Nazi's emphasized some greater role of government in for example, public works and education, but there was a greater trend toward that throughout the world at that time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve

I've been called a lot of things lately, and erudite - someone transformed from a roughened/uninformed state to a polished/knowledgeable one through a devotion to learning - is one of the nicest.  I still use this phrase (whistling past the graveyard) frequently, and most recipients look at me quizzically ...  might be showing my age now. The idiom has become a bit dated, and younger folks (like my kids) usually have no inkling of where I'm coming from.  When I read Evan's post, it struck me along the line of the following: thinking of assassins who killed the President is about as dark as it gets.  Your own government takes out a very popular leader, and then hides the truth for 50 years.  So, when we try to contemplate who would actually pull those triggers, its a bit scary and difficult to live with.  So, its the first meaning of the term (imho) where we are intimidated (i.e. spooked) and trying to keep our wits about us as we pass by the scary "graveyard" of possible/alleged assassins ... Corsicans, Cuban nationals like Manuel Orcarberrio, CIA-trained snipers, Mafia hitmen, nameless foreign nationals without a country (QJ/WIN), Malcolm Wallace, Roscoe White, Otto Skorzeny and fellow Nazis,  young Mexicans trained by Albert Osborne, et al.   

I therefore took Evan's caution along the lines of that we may be consoling ourselves (out of fear) by speculating upon all the possible candidates.  While I know many are more interested in who paid for the bullets, contemplating the actual killers is fundamentally unsettling.  I'm always impressed by folks who frequent the Forum and seem to know what they're talking about (e.g. Al Carrier, Lee Forman, Evan) when it comes to shooting and ambush tactics.  They have insider information and subject matter expertise, which I respect.  One thing is certain: someone pulled a few triggers (more than one person) in Dealey Plaza and it wasn't young Lee Harvey. The shots were expert, and designed just for JFK (and not Jacqueline, which is a feat unto itself).   They blew JFK's head off at high noon in a motorcade ... quite a statement.  I would suspect that the actual shooters were not allowed to stay on the planet too long, and will forever remain nameless.  

Gene

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the subject of crypts, I think a quick glance at the list on the MFF would settle the question..

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/cryptdb.php

My personal favorite has always been AMSANTA....clearly that was not a randomized crypt.  The crypts for other agencies are pretty expressive too.  You just can't beat ODENVY for the FBI

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Gene Kelly said:

Steve

I've been called a lot of things lately, and erudite - someone transformed from a roughened/uninformed state to a polished/knowledgeable one through a devotion to learning - is one of the nicest.  I still use this phrase (whistling past the graveyard) frequently, and most recipients look at me quizzically ...  might be showing my age now. The idiom has become a bit dated, and younger folks (like my kids) usually have no inkling of where I'm coming from.  When I read Evan's post, it struck me along the line of the following: thinking of assassins who killed the President is about as dark as it gets.  Your own government takes out a very popular leader, and then hides the truth for 50 years.  So, when we try to contemplate who would actually pull those triggers, its a bit scary and difficult to live with.  So, its the first meaning of the term (imho) where we are intimidated (i.e. spooked) and trying to keep our wits about us as we pass by the scary "graveyard" of possible/alleged assassins ... Corsicans, Cuban nationals like Manuel Orcarberrio, CIA-trained snipers, Mafia hitmen, nameless foreign nationals without a country (QJ/WIN), Malcolm Wallace, Roscoe White, Otto Skorzeny and fellow Nazis,  young Mexicans trained by Albert Osborne, et al.   

I therefore took Evan's caution along the lines of that we may be consoling ourselves (out of fear) by speculating upon all the possible candidates.  While I know many are more interested in who paid for the bullets, contemplating the actual killers is fundamentally unsettling.  I'm always impressed by folks who frequent the Forum and seem to know what they're talking about (e.g. Al Carrier, Lee Forman, Evan) when it comes to shooting and ambush tactics.  They have insider information and subject matter expertise, which I respect.  One thing is certain: someone pulled a few triggers (more than one person) in Dealey Plaza and it wasn't young Lee Harvey. The shots were expert, and designed just for JFK (and not Jacqueline, which is a feat unto itself).   They blew JFK's head off at high noon in a motorcade ... quite a statement.  I would suspect that the actual shooters were not allowed to stay on the planet too long, and will forever remain nameless.  

Gene

Gene,

Thanks for the post.  I'm convinced out of the 4 hired guns from outside of our own country, 3 of them were murdered that day.  One, Lucien Sarti, fled to Mexico where eventually he was found and killed in Nixon's war on drugs.

Malcom Wallace was insisted upon by LBJ.  And yes, Lee Oswald didn't have the skill set or the intelligence to pull-off what our government claims he did.

Rich

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps that it would be wise to recall that people who are driven by a cause may be the most dangerous people to deal with. I was told that the three shooters and for that matter the spotters all lived to a ripe old age, and that two of the shooters died in the last two years. I'm personally convinced that Angleton managed it but I'm not so sure that he was not Philby's knowing and cooperative source in US intelligence so perhaps we're back to where we started ,sort of

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A bud who had served in the OSS, Rex Applegate, told me more than once that the old China hands in OSS were the most dangerous and untrustworthy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Evan Marshall said:

A bud who had served in the OSS, Rex Applegate, told me more than once that the old China hands in OSS were the most dangerous and untrustworthy.

The “Old China Lobby”, as I have seen it referred to, would make an interesting topic; if some members could fill it out well. References and details seem rather sparse. Winston Lord’s (Skull and Bones) presence at the Nixon Meeting with Mao Tse Tung, to the exclusion of Secretary of State William Rogers, makes it interesting. 

In several areas of JFKA study particular name come up in reference to their ties to China. Dorothy Hunt and E. Howard Hunt met there. I believe I came across several others (some being born there), during my reading. I don’t recall the names. 

 

Edited by Michael Clark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tried very hard to get Rex to tape his recollections in OSS and give them to his son to be published after his death, but he refused. He once showed me a key and offered to let me borrow it and to go to  certain floor in the Empire State Bldg. and to a certain room and I could read all sorts of foreign intel files that were written in English. I declined not cause I did not believe him but because of a concern I might meet some one in that room who'd "assist" me in committing suicide by jumping from a high window there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry I haven't   been on-line lately.  I was in a huge car accident and I'm finally home.  I hope everyone has stayed out of the heat and have been enjoying their summer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/20/2018 at 4:20 PM, James DiEugenio said:

In my view the above two sources are not very reliable on this subject.  And in the two part article K and K ran on DInkin, by a guy who has really studied that episode, Dinkin did not name specific individuals, so I would like to know: Where did  Noel got those names?

The Steve Rivele tale has been discredited.  He got played.  Even Nigel Turner disregarded him later.  But the ever gullible Turner then got played with again by Barr McClellan, who wrote a book that was almost complete fiction.

I have a friend who is a researcher and I'm sure most of you know him: Walt Brown.  He had read Barr M.'s book and gave a public nod to the book.  But after it was published it was very different and Walt was sorry he told people it was the truth.  Which it wasn't anymore.

Kathy C

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

On 7/18/2018 at 2:44 PM, Michael Clark said:
  On 7/18/2018 at 12:36 PM, Evan Marshall said:

A bud who had served in the OSS, Rex Applegate, told me more than once that the old China hands in OSS were the most dangerous and untrustworthy.

 

On 7/18/2018 at 2:44 PM, Michael Clark said:

The “Old China Lobby”, as I have seen it referred to, would make an interesting topic; if some members could fill it out well. References and details seem rather sparse. Winston Lord’s (Skull and Bones) presence at the Nixon Meeting with Mao Tse Tung, to the exclusion of Secretary of State William Rogers, makes it interesting. 

In several areas of JFKA study particular name come up in reference to their ties to China. Dorothy Hunt and E. Howard Hunt met there. I believe I came across several others (some being born there), during my reading. I don’t recall the names. 

 

Speaking of old china hands from the OSS, unless I'm wrong, I understand Ed Lansdale was part of that group. With Ed's background, Prouty was of the opinion that Lansdale managed Dealey.

Edited by Roger DeLaria

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be interested in ONI in China if any information is out on that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎7‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 7:43 PM, Larry Hancock said:

On the subject of crypts, I think a quick glance at the list on the MFF would settle the question..

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/cryptdb.php

My personal favorite has always been AMSANTA....clearly that was not a randomized crypt.  The crypts for other agencies are pretty expressive too.  You just can't beat ODENVY for the FBI

 

 

No, the subject of cryptos is not settled.  Some like ZR/Rifle might be deliberate, but what do yo make of QJ/WIN?  For every crypto you claim is deliberate, I can find two that are random.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Rich Pope said:

No, the subject of cryptos is not settled.  Some like ZR/Rifle might be deliberate, but what do yo make of QJ/WIN?  For every crypto you claim is deliberate, I can find two that are random.

This is what you said.

On 7/14/2018 at 5:21 PM, Rich Pope said:

The first part of a CIA cryptogram is not random, ever.  The second part, is random.

Then you said...

On 7/15/2018 at 2:28 PM, Rich Pope said:

Prove it.

And I did...

 

On 7/15/2018 at 3:03 PM, Michael Clark said:

 

 

REDCAP

REDCOAT

REDSKIN

REDSOX

REDTOP

REDWOOD

SKEWER

SLEEPER

SLFREE

SMOTH

SM

LIMERICK

LIMITED

LINEB

LIPSTICK

LIQUIFIER

LICALLA

AMTHUG (Castro)

AMQUACK (Che Gevera)

AMOURETTE

QUMALT

QUHOPS

 

To name a few.

Rich probably won't see this as he has me on ignore..

And Larry did as well...

 

On 7/15/2018 at 8:43 PM, Larry Hancock said:

On the subject of crypts, I think a quick glance at the list on the MFF would settle the question..

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/cryptdb.php

My personal favorite has always been AMSANTA....clearly that was not a randomized crypt.  The crypts for other agencies are pretty expressive too.  You just can't beat ODENVY for the FBI

 

 

You are wrong. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×