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Rich Pope

Alternative Assassins (names)

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6 minutes ago, Rich Pope said:

The very fact that the CIA and the Mafia worked together in those days is proof enough of the Mafia's assassination skills.  The way it worked is that assassinations done inside of the United States was taken care of by the Mob and anything outside of the nation was done by the CIA.  Mob lawyer Frank Ragano wrote a book , Mob Lawyer, in which he shared that at lunch on July 23, 1963 Hoffa told Ragano, "something has to be done...The time has come to kill John F. Kenney."  On the Monday following the assassination, Ragano was in Jimmy Hoffa's office in Washington, D.C.  As the meeting broke up, Hoffa pulled Ragano to one side.  "I told you they would do it," he said,.  "I'll never forget what Carlos and Santo did for me."  Santo was seventy-three years old and on his death bed.  He confessed to Ragano, "We shouldn't have killed JFK.  We should have killed Bobby."

None of that means that the argument that Nicoletti fired a rifle at Kennedy from the Dal-Tex Building any more plausible than it was 14 posts ago.

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1 hour ago, Michael Clark said:

None of that means that the argument that Nicoletti fired a rifle at Kennedy from the Dal-Tex Building any more plausible than it was 14 posts ago.

The people who can call you on the phone and tell you they did it are all dead.  So, either you use circumstantial evidence along with what others have confessed to, or go to bed tonight knowing you're never going to know.  Unless, of course you believe James Files.  He's still alive and said Nicoletti shot from the Dal-Tex Building.  If you don't believe him, you're out of luck.

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1 hour ago, Michael Clark said:

Rich, this is all you offer on Nicoletti. You don't even have this statement couched in one of your redacted sources. You are not claiming that you got this from your CIA experience or sources. You don't say that it came from your father or his neighbor. You are just providing speculation that has been offered before.  Nicoletti would have been way to highly connected to try to carry a rifle into the Dal-Tex, try to get out, withoud being seen and without risking bringing a world of hurt down on the Mafia. It is ludicrous to offer this without providing anything more to stem incredulity.

And your reply to David....

... is brimming with logical fallacies and non-sequitors. As a man who claims to have a number of college degrees you must know the weakness of your arguments and, also, that, on this forum, you are dealing with intelligent people who can see straight through your claims.

Nicoletti was a hit man for the mob.  That is indisputable.  Pick-up any reputable book on the subject and they all say the same thing.  Dal-Tex was a CIA front company.  This, too is indisputable.  For example, books like The Almost Classified Guide to CIA Front Companies, Proprietaries and Contractors contains 413 pages of documented front companies for the government. Michael, it seems what you want is some paper trail or some declassified memo to appear out of thin air for proof.  You know as well as I do that that's just not going to happen.  Even if every person involved with the death of JFK dies, there will remain redacted documents under the umbrella of "national security".  What you and all JFK researchers are hoping for isn't going to happen I'm afraid.  Some things will simply remain hidden forever.  So you will simply have to put the pieces to the puzzle together by yourself, using your own research and what other researchers have discovered over the years.  

In addition, if you like, I would be happy to post all three of my diplomas to satisfy your doubting insults.  Actually, I think it would be best if I just placed you on ignore so that I can enjoy the conversations of people who are genuine in their search and kind with their words.

Rich

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Rich Pope said:

Nicoletti was a hit man for the mob.  That is indisputable.  Pick-up any reputable book on the subject and they all say the same thing.  Dal-Tex was a CIA front company.  This, too is indisputable.  For example, books like The Almost Classified Guide to CIA Front Companies, Proprietaries and Contractors contains 413 pages of documented front companies for the government. Michael, it seems what you want is some paper trail or some declassified memo to appear out of thin air for proof.  You know as well as I do that that's just not going to happen.  Even if every person involved with the death of JFK dies, there will remain redacted documents under the umbrella of "national security".  What you and all JFK researchers are hoping for isn't going to happen I'm afraid.  Some things will simply remain hidden forever.  So you will simply have to put the pieces to the puzzle together by yourself, using your own research and what other researchers have discovered over the years.  

In addition, if you like, I would be happy to post all three of my diplomas to satisfy your doubting insults.  Actually, I think it would be best if I just placed you on ignore so that I can enjoy the conversations of people who are genuine in their search and kind with their words.

Rich

Rich, You say things as a matter of fact and present credentials that imply that you may actually KNOW some of the things you are saying are true, or at least have some integrity to protect by virtue of an extensive and expensive education and experience. I am pointing out that you have presented nothing that the community has not seen before in relation to Nicoletti being a shooter, so we have nothing more to go on than the fact that you believe James Files.

Regarding your degrees, they do nothing for your claims. If you have nothing more than what James Files has claimed then you have the same credibility as James Files, and all his degrees; with the exception of the fact that Files was a hitman and claims that HE shot JFK.

See what I am getting at?

I have a lowly State University 4 year Arts degree in English, which took me 5 years to earn, and I would not compromise that for the world by saying that that gives me credibility in this debate without providing anything new to substantiate my claims.

I am not insulting your education. I am saying that you are risking any credibility you gain, with you education, by saying that you know who killed JFK because you watched a YouTube video.

I would, at least, say "I THINK so-and-so did it". You would hardly suffer any criticism if you did that.

Edited by Michael Clark

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This is interesting to watch.  

 

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Posted (edited)

There are so many huge secrets that have been successfully kept secret from societies all over the Earth for centuries.

From as far back as thousands of years ago to the present for sure.

Secrets we will never know. That's the normal course of history.

The truth about who killed JFK ( and RFK and MLK even Lincoln ) may or may not be secrets that will forever be buried.

It's depressing to think we may never know this truth. But welcome to the world of humankind.

With the murder of Oswald,  we lost our one best chance at knowing the full story behind 11,22,1963.  Thanks to Jack Ruby and the negligence ( beyond description ) of the DPD just two days after JFK's own slaughter.

Also, one of the more frustrating aspects to the JFK assassination truth search IMO are the confessions of responsibility for JFK's murder. Some by people who were in high positions of intrigue and who were connected to some of the most nefarious JFK hating suspects.

Some are not so easy to dismiss.

Why do we so easily dismiss E. Howard Hunt's end of life confession that he was a "bench warmer" to the big event which involved Sturgis and his crowd. Hunt flat out says LBJ, Cord Meyer and a few others were responsible for the assassination.

Hunt was so close to the highest rungs of political power in this country for years. Both covertly and in more public positions.  You really have to come up with an imaginative reason to totally dismiss someone of such a career and connections like Hunt.  What's the most accepted explanation for dismissing Hunt in the JFK research community?

You've got Barr McClellan telling us who he believed had JFK killed. Same as Hunt's confession ( LBJ ) minus Cord Meyer.

McClellan isn't a complete loon and worked closely with LBJ's personal legal team.

Roger Stone says it was LBJ.

Billy Sol Estes said it was LBJ.

Madeline Brown says LBJ told her it was big oil and agency renegades and LBJ knew about the assassination ahead of time and even bragged/growled in her ear that "after tomorrow those SOB Kennedy's will never..."

Colonel Dan Marvin inferred our own secret government was possibly involved.

Fletcher Prouty suggested our own military pulled back normal protection procedures that day.

LBJ himself told Walter Cronkite he couldn't totally dismiss the possibility that "others may have been involved" in JFK's death.

Rose Cheramie predicted JFK's death in Dallas that weekend. Joseph Milteer described a similar JFK fate just weeks before 11,22,1963 with specific dynamics that happened just the way he described.

Then you have the Frank Raganos, Jimmy Hoffas, Carlos Marcello's who claimed to know who killed JFK. Even attention seeking nuts like James Files.

Lots of confessionals, and even a few uncanny predictions. 

But with all of these came and still come editorials and articles and claims by so-called respectable writers, researchers and others in high MSM or military or high government positions that counter each confession and try to flak it out with their own explanations.

You are left dizzy with the confusion and the constant question...who do I believe?

Most of us are not deep and thorough research credentialed. But, we care about the JFK truth ( and RFK and MLK truth) with a lifelong passion.

After years of light to decent level reading about the 11,22,1963 event including maybe more than 50% of everything that is discussed on this forum I am left with a resigned belief that we will not know the truth about JFK in any of our life times.

Maybe someday our technology will advance to being able to actually view the past in some extra dimensional way.  A true time machine. With an ability to focus on an exact time and geographical place?  Viewing everyone in Dealey Plaza that day at 12:30 PM including those in surrounding buildings and behind the picket fence.

Until then...we can only believe what our life experience common sense and gut instincts tell us.

After 50+ years of contemplation mine tell me LBJ was involved.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Joe Bauer

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25 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

There are so many huge secrets that have been successfully kept secret from societies

..................

After 50+ years of contemplation mine tell me LBJ was involved.

 

Joe, I think that LBJ and Connally had all loose-ends taken care of on 11-22-63. I don't think that they were entirely sure that they would make it through that day. I don't think Hunt was wrong that LBJ knew what was likely to happen. I likewise don't think that JFK was at ease. If LBJ even gave the nod, which I think he did, it does not mean that Hunt gave us the truth.

Michael

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Posted (edited)

Micheal, Hunt's confession/story is a hard one to figure either way in it's truth and intent.

Did he mix some truth with fiction? We know he was a creative and shameless xxxx and author.

Was Hunt the first to introduce Cord Meyer into the picture? If so, why do this?

Did he have a personal grudge against Meyer? Bringing Cord Meyer into the mix makes Hunt's story all the more intriguing.

LBJ and the money and power behind him ( Texas oil, the most wealthy men on Earth at that time ) had too much to lose if JFK was not removed.

And when you are a threat to the most wealthy men on Earth ( who are extremely active politically and with one or more in bed with organized crime as well as Murchison was )  you are in big vulnerable trouble.

History forever tells us the most wealthy people are usually super aggressive alpha types who will react seriously and decisively ( even to violent degrees if need be) when they feel their wealth is threatened.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Joe Bauer

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10 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

 

Did he mix some truth with fiction? We know he was a creative and shameless xxxx and author.

Was Hunt the first to introduce Cord Meyer into the picture? If so, why do this?

Did he have a personal grudge against Meyer? Bringing Cord Meyer into the mix makes Hunt's story all the more intriguing.

 

Hunt plays a limited hangout here. He gets to play the bringer of truth, telling the tale of how Democrats and liberals (JFK, LBJ, Meyer and ex--wife) destroyed themselves. Meyer and Morales (the hangout) are already dead. And, somehow, he is doing the dirty work for LBJ, which I am not buying.

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In my opinion, this is a fantastic video.  Please take the time to watch it.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Sometimes I wonder if Hunt's confession wasn't sourced from a set of "usual suspects" being discussed as conspirators on the internet that year.

Edited by David Andrews

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Hunt may have been pulling our collective legs, and still have been right about LBJ, who was known as the Pentagon’s Senator. But I don’t buy the Mac Wallace theory.

I find Prouty very credible. Lansdale, according to Prouty, was at Dealey Plaza, running a deceptive operation, something he was an expert in. I have no doubts that CIA was running Oswald, but not for the purpose of assassination. As difficult as it’s been to get access to CIA documents, it doesn’t come close to the secrecy surrounding the military records. The connections between local military intelligence and DPD are often mentioned but poorly documented. How much operational distance is there between CIA and the Pentagon? Whatever the answer, Lansdale bridged that gap. The closer I look at the Cold Warriors the more clear it is that there nothing they wouldn’t do in the name of anti-Communism. They viewed the Soviet Union as a mortal enemy. In Dallas, the extreme view prevailed. The ambush looks like a military operation, but I think it’s obvious that the shooters were outsourced and stateless. 

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People can ID whoever they want but until they can offer evidence of the rifle skills needed to hit the president in moving its all tactical flatulence.

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Posted (edited)

1.  I know for a fact that Hunt's so-called confession was not kosher.  I know that because I know the guy who first approached him to address the issue.  He worked with Hunt a long time.  He told me that he later dropped out of the project along with Costner.  This was due to certain demands Hunt made for contractual purposes that Costner did not think he could fulfill.  After he dropped out, he told me that what ended up in the so-called confession tape did not at all resemble what Hunt thad told him in all the many months he had worked with him.  Also, the article in Rolling Stone about the subject was bunk.

2. Ragano's story about the assassination as related in Mob Lawyer was exposed as false by Anthony Summers in Vanity Fair a long time ago.  It is certainly a manufactured tale done to sell books.  As we will see below that is a major problem with this case.

3.  Barr McClellan's whimsical book deserves no serious discussion as far as the actual circumstances of JFK's death are concerned.  Please, Oswald on the sixth floor?  Mac Wallace running into Oswald and having him run off flyers in 1962?  Oswald shooting TIppit and firing at Walker? Jay Harrison was a  good guy who had some very interesting files, but he was wrong about the fingerprint. 

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-reviews/mellen-joan-faustian-bargains

 Barr McClellan was a loudmouthed gasbag who turned out to be a blowhard distraction at the 40th. He was made to order for the other loud mouthed gasbag Alex Jones who promoted him.  I am more convinced now than ever that McClellan's diversion was designed in advance.

 

There are people who visit this subject for no other reason than to sell books, stir the pot, and create a publicity diversion.  IMO, there have been far too many of them. 

Edited by James DiEugenio

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4 hours ago, Evan Marshall said:

People can ID whoever they want but until they can offer evidence of the rifle skills needed to hit the president in moving its all tactical flatulence.

There were two times where the president's limo almost came to a complete stop.  The turn onto Elm is one.  The driver was embarrassed because he almost went up onto the curb.  And right before the fatal head shot, where the driver again almost came to a complete stop.  I'm not the best shot in the world but I could have hit Kennedy from the Dal-Tex building while he was trying to turn onto Elm and I could also hit him from the Grassy Knoll while his limo was almost non-moving at all.  Now NO ONE could have made ANY of the shots using the Carcano because the scope was misaligned.

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