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Rich Pope

Alternative Assassins (names)

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5 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Hunt may have been pulling our collective legs, and still have been right about LBJ, who was known as the Pentagon’s Senator. But I don’t buy the Mac Wallace theory.

I find Prouty very credible. Lansdale, according to Prouty, was at Dealey Plaza, running a deceptive operation, something he was an expert in. I have no doubts that CIA was running Oswald, but not for the purpose of assassination. As difficult as it’s been to get access to CIA documents, it doesn’t come close to the secrecy surrounding the military records. The connections between local military intelligence and DPD are often mentioned but poorly documented. How much operational distance is there between CIA and the Pentagon? Whatever the answer, Lansdale bridged that gap. The closer I look at the Cold Warriors the more clear it is that there nothing they wouldn’t do in the name of anti-Communism. They viewed the Soviet Union as a mortal enemy. In Dallas, the extreme view prevailed. The ambush looks like a military operation, but I think it’s obvious that the shooters were outsourced and stateless. 

If people are looking for "Mob involvement," Charles Harrelson comes to mind.  I believe this is one of the few positive IDs made of a non-bystander near Dealey Plaza.  This does not, however, lead me to assume CVH was a shooter.

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On 6/23/2018 at 3:02 PM, Rich Pope said:

What "David" are you speaking about?  What names have been discounted?  Also, I did find your cards on ebay and bought them.

Rich

I was speaking of Christian David. I know he named shooters which you named as well. I haven’t dug down much but Jim D says most of the names couldn’t have been there and Rivele had to retract the story. But Sarti has not been debunked as far as I know. I have no other names to add, and don’t know much about Nicoletti. Hope you enjoy the cards.

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32 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

I was speaking of Christian David. I know he named shooters which you named as well. I haven’t dug down much but Jim D says most of the names couldn’t have been there and Rivele had to retract the story. But Sarti has not been debunked as far as I know. I have no other names to add, and don’t know much about Nicoletti. Hope you enjoy the cards.

Does Jim D say why those shooters couldn't have been there?  Because I think Jim D is very wrong. 

Souetre, a terrorist in the French Secret Army Organization, is believed by some researchers to have been recruited by the CIA to serve as an assassin. According to CIA documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act by researcher Mary Ferrell, French intelligence reported that Souetre was in Fort Worth on the morning of November 22, 1963, and in Dallas that afternoon.

And in response to a 1976 Freedom of Information Act request, the CIA released documents 632-796 confirming for the first time that a professional assassin was apprehended in Dallas on November 23, 1963 and that man was Jean Souetre, a.k.a. Michel Roux, a.k.a. Michel Mertz.   

The other shooters I mentioned are confirmed in Anthony Summers' book The Kennedy Conspiracy (Pages 523/525)

1. Lucien Sarti (The Grassy Knoll)
2. Francois Chiappe (Dal-Tex building or Texas School Book Dpeository)
3. Jean - Paul Angeletti (Dal-Tex building or Texas School Book Depository)

4.  Jean Souetre ( Location as a shooter - ???)

Rich
 

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Paul,

What if QJ/WIN is  Michel Mertz (Jean Souetre) as some claim?

Rich

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I am not wrong at all Rich.

You did not do your homework on this.  This material is on the Web and you could have easily have looked it up.  It got Nigel Turner in trouble, which is why he switched hit men.  Both RIvele and David ended up walking the story back.

 

The Times of London checked out the story.  They found that two of the alleged hit men had alibis, one was in prison and the other was in the navy.  Sarti was conveniently dead, but he had reputedly had very bad eyesight in his last years.  (10/ 30/88)  It always puzzles me when people declare ignorance because with the web and Google or Yahoo, its not difficult at all to find this material.

After this expose, both RIvele and David walked back their stories.

This does not eliminate Jean Souetre because David did not name him.

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9 minutes ago, Rich Pope said:

Does Jim D say why those shooters couldn't have been there?  Because I think Jim D is very wrong. 

Souetre, a terrorist in the French Secret Army Organization, is believed by some researchers to have been recruited by the CIA to serve as an assassin. According to CIA documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act by researcher Mary Ferrell, French intelligence reported that Souetre was in Fort Worth on the morning of November 22, 1963, and in Dallas that afternoon.

And in response to a 1976 Freedom of Information Act request, the CIA released documents 632-796 confirming for the first time that a professional assassin was apprehended in Dallas on November 23, 1963 and that man was Jean Souetre, a.k.a. Michel Roux, a.k.a. Michel Mertz.   

The other shooters I mentioned are confirmed in Anthony Summers' book The Kennedy Conspiracy (Pages 523/525)

1. Lucien Sarti (The Grassy Knoll)
2. Francois Chiappe (Dal-Tex building or Texas School Book Dpeository)
3. Jean - Paul Angeletti (Dal-Tex building or Texas School Book Depository)

4.  Jean Souetre ( Location as a shooter - ???)

Rich
 

Jim D wrote a post on page 1 of this thread saying that One of them had an alibi and one was dead. I haven’t looked at his source but I’m pretty sure I read that years ago. For me it doesn’t negate the possibility of Corsican or French assassins. ‘Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water’ is one of my favorite expressions. Just because Barr McLellan is an idiot, or Roger Stone, or Madeleine Brown are untruthful doesn’t mean LBJ wasn’t in on it. I’m not btw saying they are not being truthful, I just don’t automatically shoot the messenger.

The confusion in the Souetre story is the various names and aliases. I’ve read that material to death. Again, just because it’s a rabbit hole with no sure bottom doesn’t mean Souetre wasn’t in Dallas. Honestly I don’t know. But I have the intuition that the confusion is deliberate, and that in itself keeps me interested. Souetre says he never came to the US in 1963. At least one source in French Intelligence says he did, not on Nov.22, but earlier in the year when he visited both New Orleans and Dallas and met with both Guy Banister and General Edwin Walker. But trying to find incontrovertible proof of that is impossible. This dispute on the facts led me to look as deeply as I could (I’m still looking) into the OAS. DeGaulle was convinced they were behind many attempts on his life, and I believe him. He also said that Permindex was funding OAS. This rabbit hole takes you deep into the weeds of the Cold War and the intelligence battles between CIA and KGB. if you want to explore this and have not done so yet, look at the life of Phillipe De Vosjoli Thyraud. 

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4 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

I am not wrong at all Rich.

You did not do your homework on this.  This material is on the Web and you could have easily have looked it up.  It got Nigel Turner in trouble, which is why he switched hit men.  Both RIvele and David ended up walking the story back.

 

The Times of London checked out the story.  They found that two of the alleged hit men had alibis, one was in prison and the other was in the navy.  Sarti was conveniently dead, but he had reputedly had very bad eyesight in his last years.  (10/ 30/88)  It always puzzles me when people declare ignorance because with the web and Google or Yahoo, its not difficult at all to find this material.

After this expose, both RIvele and David walked back their stories.

This does not eliminate Jean Souetre because David did not name him.

Agree, except I’m not so sure Sarti is eliminated. 

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Posted (edited)

Paul, if David was up  a tree  and tugging Rivele's chain on the other two, and  Sarti had bad eyesight in his later years, then how credible is Sarti as an assassin?

Here is an all too sympathetic look at this fiasco.

http://corsicanmafia.tripod.com/mafia.htm

And recall, Rivele went ahead and added, out of Swiss cheese, that Trafficante and Marcello were involved. I for one have had enough with this naming the killers stuff.  I mean how many debacles does the critical community need to sustain, getting egg all over us each time?

Isn't Rivele, Files, Wallace, and Roscoe White enough?

I agree with Prouty and Garrison on this: the question is not really who did the shooting.  Its who was responsible for the set up and then the immediate cover up, which was snapped on instantly. That is how you can solve this case.  I for one will not be snookered by people like David, the late Joe West, Billy Sol Estes, and White's son--they all turned out to be, to put it kindly, half-baked.  And we should have known better.  

The problem with all this baloney is that maybe when we really do have the key, who will listen to us after all these Buster Keaton pratfalls?  I mean three months  prior to the JFK Center announcing Roscoe White as the hit man, they had called a press conference and announced Nicoletti as the assassin.  Maybe Rich does not know that.  Getting pretty crowded on that Grassy Knoll isn't it?  How did those guys not run into each other while escaping?

Edited by James DiEugenio

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James,

Do you agree or disagree that Mac Wallace's fingerprints were found on a box in the TSBD?

Rich

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5 minutes ago, Rich Pope said:

James,

Do you agree or disagree that Mac Wallace's fingerprints were found on a box in the TSBD?

Rich

Even if it were true, it does not even mean that Wallace was ever in that building. 

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31 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

I am not wrong at all Rich.

You did not do your homework on this.  This material is on the Web and you could have easily have looked it up.  It got Nigel Turner in trouble, which is why he switched hit men.  Both RIvele and David ended up walking the story back.

 

The Times of London checked out the story.  They found that two of the alleged hit men had alibis, one was in prison and the other was in the navy.  Sarti was conveniently dead, but he had reputedly had very bad eyesight in his last years.  (10/ 30/88)  It always puzzles me when people declare ignorance because with the web and Google or Yahoo, its not difficult at all to find this material.

After this expose, both RIvele and David walked back their stories.

This does not eliminate Jean Souetre because David did not name him.

So, out of the 4 people I mentioned, you claim two of them couldn't have been in Dallas.  Why is that again?

Rich

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Posted (edited)

Rich,

Sometimes I wonder about you.

You did not even look at this link did you?

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-reviews/mellen-joan-faustian-bargains

According to one of the very best American experts on fingerprint analysis, no it is not Wallace's fingerprints.  And the fact this story lasted that long does not do the community any kind of honor.  Neither does your insisting it is true when it was discredited a long time ago and you were not aware of it.

 

BTW, in your first post you got the other two names, besides Sarti, wrong.  Those are not the two guys RIvele named.  If you read my link above, those are the two names he presented to Nigel Turner.

As I said Rich, you need to do some background reading on this case.  I recommended going to Kennedysandking for some of that.

 

Edited by James DiEugenio

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6 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Rich,

Sometimes I wonder about you.

You did not even look at this link did you?

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-reviews/mellen-joan-faustian-bargains

According to one of the very best American experts on fingerprint analysis, no it is not Wallace's fingerprints.  And the fact this story lasted that long does not do the community any kind of honor.  Neither does your insisting it is true when it was discredited a long time ago and you were not aware of it.

 

BTW, in your first post you got the other two names, besides Sarti, wrong.  Those are not the two guys RIvele named.  If you read my link above, those are the two names he presented to Nigel Turner.

As I said Rich, you need to do some background reading on this case.  I recommended going to Kennedysandking for some of that.

 

Could you provide me with the link to the Time of London article you referred to?

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9 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

There are so many ways you can find this.  And there was more than one British source for it.

But you don't even bother to look.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=mqNdAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Bl0NAAAAIBAJ&pg=1234%2C4995432

This is the last piece of research I do for you.

Jim - these Frenchman are not the same names as Rich is naming. 

To be clear, I agree with you that the names of the shooters are not as important as who engineered the plot. I also agree that limiting the coup plotters to Mafia is BS. 

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