Reading RFK's Jr. latest. No doubt he points his finger towards the CIA

[Larry Hancock]

Indeed, I would have problems with the photo as I do with other elements of the book it appeared in, some very good information in it but in other places a real stretch.  One thing that is clear about Sanjenis and the boat mission that he led to provide a diversion for the BOP fiasco is that it was a total failure - and that happened because of his personal timidity.  There are lots of rumors about that mission, but one thing is sure and that's the fact that he refused to commit his force and that he was not going to be trusted within Agency operations after that.  Reportedly he and certain of his exile supporters went on to create a drug connected, violent civilian version of OP40, ostensibly to raise money to fight Castro but in reality just to make money.

And I surely do agree with Jim in regard to Ray and the hatred which many CIA officers had for him - by 1963 Hecksher actually ordered Artime's AM/WORLD group to fire on Ray's people if they encountered them on operations into Cuba. The virulent anti communist CIA types considered a socialist like Ray little different from a pure bred Moscow type commie. Along those lines I've felt for a long time that the visit to Odio was no fluke and he had to do with her connection to Ray. 

[Ron Bulman]

RFKII piqued my interest regarding Sanenish by quoting Arthur Schlesinger "hence it (CIA) prefers people like (Joaquin) Sanjenish (head of the sinister and secretive death squad, Operation 40) to proud and independent people like Miro (Cardona, head of the CRC)".  I thought I'd read before Morales was head of/in charge of training O-40 but it looks like that was of "official" CIA personnel if so.  It also looks like, at one point at least Sanjenish was the top Cuban within it.  With the blessing of hardliners like Hunt, and I'd guess Morales.  With all the names of players, both Cuban and American that turn up regarding Operation 40, and, speculation I've read about elements of it being flipped from a Castro assassination to that of JFK it makes him an interesting subject.  I wonder where he was and what he was doing by 11/22/63?  Especially if he was favored by Morales, he could have been "useful", regarding logistics  if nothing else.  Trouble is ZR Rifle was purportedly the assassination of Castro aspect.  Operation 40 was the killing machine after Castro was dead of his supporters, Communists and liberal/democratic leaders.  Although their job was to Eliminate such persons and membership in O-40 does not preclude usefulness in JFK's execution.

Regarding the names.  Joaquin Sanjenish, Luis Sanjenish, Jose Sangenish, Joachim Panderao San Jenis, Sam Jenis, now Captain Sanjaenish.  That doesn't sound like just a Cuban Revolutionary but a CIA operative.     

Edited June 26, 2018 by Ron Bulman

[James DiEugenio]

Something else has always interested me about Operation Forty.

In a memo written by Dan Hardway for the HSCA, he said that the post operation report on Operation Forty was written by Halpern upon the direct orders of Helms.

He said that to his knowledge, no one outside the Agency had ever seen it except for Andrew St George.  Which means that the HSCA never got it.

If you know anything about St. George, you will see that he wrote a very interesting article about Watergate which quoted Sturgis quite liberally  saying that the scandal was really about Nixon vs the CIA. And the Cubans were pawns in the game.

Is St. George still alive?  Would love to talk to him about that report.

[Ron Bulman]

3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

I an pretty sure that part of the story is accurate about Sanjenis vs Varona.

But I am pretty sure Larry would have problems with that picture from Barry and the Boys.  As I would.

If you re read Mr. Simkin's whole thread it get's almost comical about the picture if not for the subject it all supposedly relates to, the assassination.  Tosh Plumlee says that's him covering his face.  Scott Kaiser say's it's Frank (Sturgis?).  Plumlee says it's not a CIA gathering and the only one he can remember is Seal.

Maybe a bone thrown out by the Mockingbird's to muddy the waters?

[James DiEugenio]

I would concur with that one.

The thing is, agreeing with Larry, Hopsicker did dig up some interesting information about Seal.

But he also fell for some stuff which I think was really out there and was not verifiable by any means except Seal's word, and it was hearsay at that.

 

[Ron Bulman]

22 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Something else has always interested me about Operation Forty.

In a memo written by Dan Hardway for the HSCA, he said that the post operation report on Operation Forty was written by Halpern upon the direct orders of Helms.

He said that to his knowledge, no one outside the Agency had ever seen it except for Andrew St George.  Which means that the HSCA never got it.

If you know anything about St. George, you will see that he wrote a very interesting article about Watergate which quoted Sturgis quite liberally  saying that the scandal was really about Nixon vs the CIA. And the Cubans were pawns in the game.

Is St. George still alive?  Would love to talk to him about that report.

If Halpern wrote the report it ended up being what Helms wanted to hear in the first place.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Ron Bulman

[Ron Bulman]

On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 8:39 PM, Larry Hancock said:

Indeed, I would have problems with the photo as I do with other elements of the book it appeared in, some very good information in it but in other places a real stretch.  One thing that is clear about Sanjenis and the boat mission that he led to provide a diversion for the BOP fiasco is that it was a total failure - and that happened because of his personal timidity.  There are lots of rumors about that mission, but one thing is sure and that's the fact that he refused to commit his force and that he was not going to be trusted within Agency operations after that.  Reportedly he and certain of his exile supporters went on to create a drug connected, violent civilian version of OP40, ostensibly to raise money to fight Castro but in reality just to make money.

And I surely do agree with Jim in regard to Ray and the hatred which many CIA officers had for him - by 1963 Hecksher actually ordered Artime's AM/WORLD group to fire on Ray's people if they encountered them on operations into Cuba. The virulent anti communist CIA types considered a socialist like Ray little different from a pure bred Moscow type commie. Along those lines I've felt for a long time that the visit to Odio was no fluke and he had to do with her connection to Ray. 

Thank you for this post Larry.  It pretty well lays to rest my question about Sanjenis being of any possible use in the JFK assassination.  I'd re read all the references to him in SWHT.  After reading your post, having seen nothing in it about the boat mission you mention, I thumbed through Nexus looking for any reference to it and found none.  An excellent, informative, well documented book I recommend and should re read, which as I'm sure you know has no name/subject index.  It is apparent from your post that his failure to perform his mission during the Bay of Pigs would have rendered him useless for further operations in the eyes of Morales, Phillips and others.  

[Larry Hancock]

I'm glad it helped Ron - sorry about the NEXUS index; NEXUS was originally written more as a large reseach monograph than as a book and in the process of publishing it the index was something that just didn't get done. What did happen is that most of the research that had gone into NEXUS got carried into a much larger book, Shadow Warfare, which traces the longer term careers of most of the NEXUS characters that I found to be of the most serious interest on through some two decades beyond the JFK assassination - and it does have a serious index.

If I were to do NEXUS again, I would focus in on a certain set of names and those would be individuals who were either trained or worked during 61-63 with Jenkins and Quintero, the sources for the assassination stories which were heard and related by Gene Wheaton. Those names would include the exiles that were trusted enough internally by people like Morales to move on beyond the Bay of Pigs fiasco and become much longer term CIA assets - and even employees. Those are the names  you find in Shadow Warfare and the go on to Vietnam and on through Latin America for years. These were folks who proved themselves in anti-Castro operations (even the ones that failed), people competent enough and "trusted" enough to be called on in 1963.  Sanjenis would never have made that cut.

 

[Cliff Varnell]

2 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

I'm glad it helped Ron - sorry about the NEXUS index; NEXUS was originally written more as a large reseach monograph than as a book and in the process of publishing it the index was something that just didn't get done. What did happen is that most of the research that had gone into NEXUS got carried into a much larger book, Shadow Warfare, which traces the longer term careers of most of the NEXUS characters that I found to be of the most serious interest on through some two decades beyond the JFK assassination - and it does have a serious index.

If I were to do NEXUS again, I would focus in on a certain set of names and those would be individuals who were either trained or worked during 61-63 with Jenkins and Quintero, the sources for the assassination stories which were heard and related by Gene Wheaton. Those names would include the exiles that were trusted enough internally by people like Morales to move on beyond the Bay of Pigs fiasco and become much longer term CIA assets - and even employees. Those are the names  you find in Shadow Warfare and the go on to Vietnam and on through Latin America for years. These were folks who proved themselves in anti-Castro operations (even the ones that failed), people competent enough and "trusted" enough to be called on in 1963.  Sanjenis would never have made that cut.

 

Carl Jenkins trained the Thai Border Police to ambush slow moving, well armed opium caravans, and he trained the Kuomintang's well armed opium caravans to evade ambush.

Who better to plan the ambush of a slow moving, well armed auto caravan?

[Ron Bulman]

Here's a good review of RFK II's book that also addresses it's lack of attention by the MSM as well as Paz original thread topic.

https://countercurrents.org/2018/06/12/american-values-lessons-i-learned-from-my-family-by-robert-f-kennedy-jr-a-review/ 

[Paz Marverde]

4 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Paz original thread topic.

Ditto. Thankful someone still remembers it ...

Edited June 28, 2018 by Paz Marverde

[Ron Bulman]

pg. 242-3.  "Jack and my father worked with the British and Bahamian governments to shutter Alpha 66's bases in Anguilla, forty miles off the Cuban coast.  Veciana told me that Phillips, who hated Jack since the Bay of Pigs, was in a murderous fury toward him after JFK shut down Alpha 66."