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Fred Litwin

Need single bullet theory diagram

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21 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

From your link: "That "bunching up" of the jacket could very well be the answer as to why the chalk mark is located below the level of Specter's pointer. If we bunch up the jacket a little bit (like JFK's coat was bunched, per the Croft photo), it's a perfect alignment.".

If Specter wanted to recreate it, he should have had the JFK stand-in bunch up his jacket and line that pointer up with the mark on the back instead of arbitrarily moving the pointer up to where it conveniently lines up with where he wanted it to point to Connally.  

I guess I don't see 2" of "bunching" jacket in this picture whereas you do.  It looks to me that his coat is sitting on him just like Connally's, like a custom-made Brooks Brother's suit coat should sit.  So your answer to my question is a "bunching up" of his jacket, thanks for replying.

Rick

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PAT SPEER SAID:

See, this is what fascinates/bothers me, David. You KNOW I have chapter after chapter debunking all those programs and all those re-enactments you described in a previous post [THIS POST].


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

So what?

You actually think that I am going to think you have "debunked" anything connected with the Single-Bullet Theory? You must be kidding, Pat. You've debunked NOTHING. Least of all the viability of the SBT.

You and I both have a lot of written material on our respective websites. And we're both in the same boat (so to speak).

I.E.,

I will never convince you that ANYTHING relating to the SBT is true. And, conversely, and knowing what I know about the SBT, you are never going to be able to convince me that the SBT is false or that the Warren Commission was a pack of liars with respect to the SBT.

That's the way it is. And that's the way it likely always will be.


PAT SPEER SAID:

You continue to pretend that a picture taken from the front, and showing a trajectory rod passing over the shoulder, lines up with a chalk mark inches below the shoulder line. Bizarre.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Pat,

Here is the thing that makes your anti-CE903 rant unworthy of consideration (and you know this is true, but you seem to forget it every time I bring it up)....

CE903 represents the AVERAGE ANGLE between Z210 and Z225.

So THAT'S why the chalk mark doesn't quite "line up" perfectly.

Yes, I do have an article entitled "The SBT Perfection Of CE903". But I've added an addendum near the bottom of that article to talk about that "average trajectory angle" thing. But, in general terms of proving the workability and doability of the SBT, I do still think that CE903 does equal "SBT Perfection".

Let's see a CTer produce an anti-SBT re-enactment of the bullet wounds sustained by JFK and Governor Connally that comes within ten miles of CE903. No CTer ever has. And they never will (even if they try). And that's mainly because the SBT is so obviously true. And it's a heck of a lot more difficult to try and re-create a fantasy than it is to try and re-create something that actually happened.

And that's why the Warren Commission was able to get so close to perfection when re-creating the Single-Bullet Theory in that Dallas garage on May 24, 1964. Because they were re-creating something that the sum total of the evidence indicates actually happened on Elm Street on November 22, 1963.

David Von Pein
June 22, 2015
 

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/11/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-843.html

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Posted (edited)

Yeah, it was so perfect that neither Dale Myers nor a TV production could duplicate it.

This SB "perfection" never happened. And Specter knew it.  Which is why he could not explain it to Fonzi.

 It exists in DVP's mind. Just as those Weapons of Mass Destruction existed in Cheney's and Wolfowitz' imaginations.

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-impossible-one-day-journey-of-ce-399

Edited by James DiEugenio

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

This SB "perfection" never happened. And Specter knew it. Which is why he could not explain it to Fonzi. It exists in DVP's mind.

The SBT bullet path is pretty much "explained" right there within CE903. It's right there in the picture. All you have to do is look at it and comprehend what it's telling you.

And even though a little "margin of error" must be granted Arlen Specter and the Warren Commission with respect to what we see in CE903 (because the 17.72-degree downward angle is, indeed, just the AVERAGE angle between Zapruder frames 210 and 225, plus there's the fact that the car being used in CE903 is not the SS-100-X limo), there are two things seen in CE903 that don't require any "margin of error" --- the "tie knot" exit wound location in JFK's throat and the entry hole in John Connally's back (with Specter's metal rod being inserted directly into the bullet hole in Connally's jacket---a jacket which the stand-in is wearing in CE903).

So, via the CE903 visual demonstration, if a bullet proceeding downward at an angle of 17.72 degrees (aligning perfectly with a "Z210-Z225" angle from the "Oswald window") were to exit JFK's throat at the tie knot, it would then proceed on that same angle directly into the back of Governor Connally in exactly the place where we know a bullet DID enter Connally's upper right back.

That's a pretty impressive demonstration if you ask me. I wonder what the odds are of the WC being able to re-create such a nearly perfect SBT demonstration and yet NOT have such a demonstration represent the truth of what actually happened---even though the angle from the known sniper's window was right where it should be if the shot occurred at around Z217.5 AND the re-created bullet path travelled exactly where a bullet really did strike President Kennedy and John Connally on 11/22/63?

I wouldn't want to take those odds to Vegas if I was an anti-SBT conspiracy believer.

And yet I'm supposed to believe the CTers who tell me that two (or probably THREE) different bullets lined themselves up beautifully so that Arlen Specter could later present this impressive "one bullet" exhibit to the world. Talk about incredibly good luck for Mr. Specter & Company! ....


Commission-Exhibit-903.jpg-----JFK-Autopsy-Photos.jpg

Edited by David Von Pein

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6 hours ago, Lawrence Schnapf said:

stay tuned for big news later this fall that will debunk the SBT beyond a reasonable doubt....

Lawrence, the SBT is ALREADY debunked beyond reasonable doubt.

Lone Nutters and "CT" Pet Theorists are the only ones adhering to it.

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3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Good Larry.

But even Von Pein will now be convinced?

 

Yeah, stay tuned for big news this Fall -- it's gonna be proven beyond reasonable doubt that the sun sets in the West!

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3 hours ago, Rick McTague said:

From your link: "That "bunching up" of the jacket could very well be the answer as to why the chalk mark is located below the level of Specter's pointer. If we bunch up the jacket a little bit (like JFK's coat was bunched, per the Croft photo), it's a perfect alignment.".

Several years ago I pointed out to David Von Pein that the Croft 3 photo, taken on Elm St., shows a normal amount of shirt collar visible on JFK's neck.

The only way that could occur was if the jacket collar sat in it's normal position just above the base of the neck.

I pointed out to DVP that multiples inches of  jacket fabric couldn't bunch up above the back wound without pushing up on the jacket collar.

He readily agreed that JFK's jacket wasn't significantly elevated.

DVP insisted on ignoring this evidence going forward.

He has a lot of company, as most Name Critics ignore the physical evidence as well.

3 hours ago, Rick McTague said:

If Specter wanted to recreate it, he should have had the JFK stand-in bunch up his jacket and line that pointer up with the mark on the back instead of arbitrarily moving the pointer up to where it conveniently lines up with where he wanted it to point to Connally.  

Physically impossible.

You can't get your shirt to move more than a fraction of an inch -- a hard fact ignored by Nutters and Ambitious Researchers alike.

 

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8 hours ago, Lawrence Schnapf said:

stay tuned for big news later this fall that will debunk the SBT beyond a reasonable doubt....

How is treating a redundancy like a revelation helpful?

Seriously, I don't get it.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

How is treating a redundancy like a revelation helpful?

Seriously, I don't get it.

Because JFK conspiracy theorists need to regularly reinforce (in their own minds) their anti-SBT beliefs, as they continue to pretend (year after year) that the Single-Bullet Theory is "impossible", a "fantasy", and the "wet dream" of Pennsylvania's Arlen Specter.

Deep down, though, all veteran CTers (including Cliff Varnell and virtually all other Education Forum members) have got to know, of course, that the SBT is the only possible scenario that fits the sum total of evidence in the JFK case (how could they possibly not know that fact after studying the evidence for umpteen years?), but they've been aboard the "SBT Is Impossible" train for so long now, they can't ever disembark from it.

FYI ---- The Ultimate In SBT Denial can be found here....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/01/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-887.html

Edited by David Von Pein

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Because JFK conspiracy theorists need to regularly reinforce (in their own minds) their anti-SBT beliefs, as they continue to pretend (year after year) that the Single-Bullet Theory is "impossible", a "fantasy", and the "wet dream" of Pennsylvania's Arlen Specter.

Deep down, though, all veteran CTers (including Cliff Varnell and virtually all other EF members) have got to know, of course, that the SBT is the only possible scenario that fits the sum total of evidence in the JFK case (how could they possibly not know that fact after studying the evidence for umpteen years?), but they've been aboard the "SBT Is Impossible" train for so long now, they can't ever disembark from it.

The Ultimate In SBT Denial can be found here....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/01/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-887.html

As colonel Potter used to say..... "Horse Hockey".

It is quite the opposite of course, David. It is you who are wedded to a false story; and are so deep in the muck that you would be hard-pressed to free yourself. 

Most of us don't really know for sure what happened. We are trying to figure it out. There is no story to be wedded to. We are looking for that story.

 

Edited by Michael Clark

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

Most of us don't really know for sure what happened. We are trying to figure it out. There is no story to be wedded to. We are looking for that story.

If you can't figure out that the Single-Bullet Theory is the truth, I feel sorry for your poor investigative skills.

As Vincent Bugliosi said in his book, the SBT is "so obvious that a child could author it".

(How very true, Vince.)

-------------------

"From the first moment that I heard that [Arlen] Specter had come up with the single-bullet theory, it made very little sense to me since the theory was so obvious that a child could author it. .... Since [the members of the Warren Commission staff] all knew that the bullet, fired from Kennedy's right rear, had passed through soft tissue in Kennedy's body on a straight line, and that Connally was seated to the president's left front, the bullet, after emerging from Kennedy's body, would have had to go on and hit Connally for the simple reason it had nowhere else to go. How could it be that among many bright lawyers earnestly focusing their minds on this issue, only Specter saw it? .... When I asked [Norman Redlich on September 6, 2005] if, indeed, Arlen Specter was the sole author of the single-bullet theory, his exact words were, "No, we all came to this conclusion simultaneously." When I asked him whom he meant by "we," he said, "Arlen, myself, Howard Willens, David Belin, and Mel Eisenberg." .... I don't know about you folks, but I'm inclined to take what Redlich told me to the bank. My sense is that Redlich, who by almost all accounts worked harder on the case than anyone else, was a team player only interested in doing his job well. .... If I have done a disservice to Specter in what I have written above, I apologize to him. But I did give him an opportunity to respond to this issue [via a letter sent to Specter on June 24, 2005], and he declined." -- Vincent Bugliosi; Pages 302-304 of Endnotes in "Reclaiming History"
 

Edited by David Von Pein

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Davey, those 3 pictures you have there on display have all been exposed several times before.  This is a repeated pattern by you and people like McAdams. NO matter ho many times you get blown up, you then recycle the discredited rubbish like new and valid.  Not so.    People as skilled as Mili Cranor have blown up the use of that middle photo.That chiropractor who does massage therapy and used that ridiculous middle picture was raked over the coals by her.  And she believes that in the rear autopsy photo, if you allow the foreshortening, and also the way the body is being lifted up, the entry wound is most likely at a point between T2 and T3. Which dispels the SBF. I won't even comment on that ludicrous pointer picture which you insist on displaying from only one direction. Ignoring the fact that under questioning by Fonzi, Specter fell apart.  Meaning he knew it was a Rube Goldberg contraption himself. But you want to forget that.

Let me ask you this:  Do you know where JFK bought his shirts at?  And do you know what he paid for them?

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Because JFK conspiracy theorists need to regularly reinforce (in their own minds) their anti-SBT beliefs, as they continue to pretend (year after year) that the Single-Bullet Theory is "impossible", a "fantasy", and the "wet dream" of Pennsylvania's Arlen Specter.

You've admitted JFK's clothing wasn't elevated, David.

There is nothing left to discuss on that subject.

 

Edited by Cliff Varnell

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The evidence supporting the SBT had been contorted to support the proposition. it does not hold up under scrutiny/close examination. when I am free to disclose the  news, i will share with this group. 

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