Ron Bulman Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Help, please. Looked for a thread, trying to consolidate/refine what I think I've read. One of the top two anti Castro organization's in the US (DRE is the other) financed by the CIA, with the thought they could direct them? Led by, at one point, Antonio Veciana, who saw David Phillips/Maurice Bishop with Oswald in Dallas prior to the assassination. http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKalpha.htm Also possibly involved in Alpha 66 was Sergio Aracha Smith. Involved in New Orleans in the summer of 63 with Bannister/Ferrie/Shaw-Bertrnad? In Dallas the safe/meeting house on Harlandale had Alpha 66 visitors/sponsors at which Oswald may have been seen, as well as Smith? Was not by that time Dallas resident Smith subpoenaed by Jim Garrison but his extradition blocked by Texas Governor at the time John Connally? The same Governor Connally seriously wounded in the same car JFK was killed in. I think this last part is in Destiny Betrayed. So were Smith and Veciana maybe otherwise familiar with Oswald than Veciana's sighting o him with Phillips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said: So were Smith and Veciana maybe otherwise familiar with Oswald than Veciana's sighting o him with Phillips? Ron, I personally think Veciana was aware of Oswald through a different source. See the Thread in the Education Forum entitled, "Oswald in Miami" here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/24646-oswald-in-miami/?tab=comments#comment-370097 Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 (edited) I was glad to see Steve's Alpha 66 Run by the U. S. Army thread take off, participate and learn from it. I was looking at a bigger picture when I started this one and not aware of Army CI in it. I've never read a in depth synopsis on them alone. I had googled A-66 but I'm kind of hit and miss on internet "research" and didn't hit much. So I went back to a couple of books I remembered reading about it in. Destiny Betrayed had 7 references to it in the index, which is deceptive of it in relation to one aspect I'm interested in. Someone Would Have Talked had 56 so I started with it. I took brief, incomplete abbreviated notes. Since I did I thought I'd share them for general reference of others. From Someone Would Have Talked by Larry Hancock. pg. 19. Eddie Bayo was an organizer and led raids. pg. 48. Richard Nagell observed, contacted or worked with two Alpha 66 members in Mexico City. pg. 51. Veciana contacted by Army Intelligence 10/62, assigned code # on 1/30/63. pg. 55. 4/62 a LA office was opened, Nagell observed goings on there. pg. 63. Manpower for Operation Tilt, the Bayo-Pawley raid was provided by Alpha 66. pg. 71. Start up money came from Julio Lobo and Carlos Prio (former Cuban Prime Minister (?)). pg. 72. 3/63, JFK cracked down on Cuban Exile groups attacking Cuba and Russian ships) from the U.S.. pg. 79. The DRE and Alpha 66 were more active in Dallas in the fall of 1963. pg. 80. A FBI source said Oswald was not seen (by him?) at the Harlendale house. pg. 88. Veciana said Russian attacks were encouraged and supported by Maurice Bishop. pg. 92. Raids on Russian targets were known in advance by JM Wave and no effort to stop them was to block them. pg. 93. An aside. Bill Harvey was in Miami in April 63 for a week along with Roselli. Task Force W had been replaced but was funded for the whole year and paid for his trip. pg. 96. In June, "Sierra' obtained considerable funding and distributed it to all the major groups, including Alpha 66. pg. 170. In 1963 Alpha 66 moved operations to Puerto Rico. A-66 leader Manuel Rodriguez Orcharberro move to Dallas in September in "Oakdale", (Oak Cliff-Harlendae?) pg. 171. Orchaberro was violently opposed to JFK but denied so after the assassination. pg. 177. Hernandez (?) was always associated with Alpha 66. pg. 284. Bannister associate Don Campbell revealed Shaw was involved in a gun running operation to A-66 in Miami. pg. 354. DRE and A-66 were far better at operations than JM WAVE. pg. 359. 'Fernandez" spot reports on A-66 to JM WAVE. pg. 378. Sergio Archacha Smith appointed by Antonio Veciana as the New Orleans delegate of the "Frente" in 61. 61, associated with Bannister. Ferrie / Smith close associates. pg. 412-415. DRE/A-66 dual memberships. Veciana approached CIA about assassinating Castro. pg. 417. TILT/Bayo-Pawley staffed by A-66 with Military coordination by rip Robertson who reported to Morales. pg. 421. Veciana has made it very clear most of the groups strategy and plans were directed by a very secretive American. DB, Later or tomorrow. Edited July 4, 2018 by Ron Bulman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 I'm working in this area now and a general observation would be that during 1963 Alpha 66 became more politically active in exile organizing and fund raising but several of its more combat and mission active members moved to join Commandos L. Commandos L gained considerable media attention for its missions and continued a focus on Russian targets: http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/belligerence/norman-key.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaleen Kilroy Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 (edited) The Army’s documented faith in Veciana in the months prior to the assassination bolsters his claim of seeing Oswald in the company of Phillips for me. This was not some low-level asset. And the list of his Alpha 66 compatriots looks like a who’s who of Cuban and US operatives who wanted JFK dead and could pull it off. Perhaps Veciana still knows more than what he’s saying? Like WHY was he meeting Phillips in Dallas? And isn’t strange how RFK’s first suspicions fell upon the Cubans and CIA in the minutes following the assassination before Oswald had even been picked up? And LHO with connections to both. Edited July 4, 2018 by Mike Kilroy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 I've sort of come to the conclusion that Cuba was a clusterf*** all the way around. Veciana and Alpha 66 just wanted to kill Castro, and didn't really care what came afterwards. The CIA just wanted to run covert ops for the purpose of running covert ops and had no plan for what came afterwards. The military just wanted to do what it was born and bred for - to conquer things - and had no real interest in what came afterwards. To whit: Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board meeting of May 15, 1961. This is after the Bay of Pigs. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1976#relPageId=9&tab=page Page 9 Meeting of June 7, 1961: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1976#relPageId=10&tab=page Page 10 In other words, the CIA was conducting covert actions for the sake of covert action. Meeting of September 12 – 13, 1963 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1960 Page 16: What happens after Castro? "The CIA prefers that no leader in exile be considered". Page 21: http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/2018/180-10104-10394.pdf V is Veciana Although interested in the Cuban political scene, the military was primarily interested in doing what the military does; i.e. military conquest. They were using Alpha 66 as a reconnaissance in depth, testing for Cuban weaknesses and vulnerabilities, and more importantly, possible Soviet ground troop response. (emphasis in prior sentence is mine). Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaleen Kilroy Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Again someone this involved and this trusted by high-level US Army personnel in essentially a state of war with an adversary should not and cannot be dismissed with his sighting of JFK’s alleged assassin with a top intel officer. It should in fact be big news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 8 hours ago, Mike Kilroy said: Again someone this involved and this trusted by high-level US Army personnel in essentially a state of war with an adversary should not and cannot be dismissed with his sighting of JFK’s alleged assassin with a top intel officer. It should in fact be big news. It has been big news to some for years. Too big for the Main Stream Media to touch with a 10' pole. Phillips meeting with Oswald and Veciana in public but still not "together", discussing a common subject with both of them at the same time has been a head scratcher to me since I first read of it. Why? Phillips wanted Veciana to see Oswald for future reference? If they were meeting him about different subjects why not at different times or a different location? Larry's convinced me using Alpha 66 or Veciana in the assassination itself doesn't make much sense in some respects. They were very publicly anti Castro. He was quite vocal in his fundraising in particular. They called a press conference in Washington to promote their violation of JFK's instructions not to attack Cuban or Russian assets from U.S. soil. If connected to the assassination they would not draw attention to a pro Castro assassin. However, this would not preclude use of members in setting up a patsy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 (edited) I think its a very important take away to differentiate individuals from groups in regard to their "effectiveness" and the possibility that certain individuals would be stand outs for violent action, with respectable track records for carrying off missions. Generally speaking JM/WAVE itself had a pretty poor record of attacks inside Cuba even though it had very experienced CIA paramilitary officers like Jenkins and Robertson organizing missions. In comparison Alpha 66 leaders like Cuesta, Commands L teams including Bernardo de Torres and even independents like Roy Hargraves carried out successful missions against Cuban installations and ships. Certain CIA associated Cuban exiles were also imminently successful in independent, covert operations - Felix Rodriquez being a stand out. You find people like that moving from group to group, not only from the Cuban brigade onward but through the 60's and on into anti-Communist missions from the Congo, to Vietnam and on to Nicaragua. Its also worth mentioning that when the mysterious internal JM/WAVE investigation (ordered by Sforza) was ordered to look into Cuban exiles who might have been involved in the assassination, it not only addressed CIA associated exiles but all sorts of independents as well (before you asked, we know the inquiry was done, we even know a few of the questions asked, we have that anecdotally from someone at JM/WAVE but that's all we have - whatever information was collected either didn't actually make it into a report or was quickly suppressed). It occurred to me I should add something to this post and that relates to the fact that the CIA, at least JM/WAVE, may have on occasion provided unspecified levels of support to unsanctioned groups like Alpha 66 and Commandos L in a "factually" deniable fashion - deniable to the point the groups themselves would be unable to provide evidence to claim CIA support, even if for some reason they wished to do so. I cover this on page 357 of SWHT 2010 in reference to a CIA memo discussing support for both Alpha 66 and Commandos L. The discussion pertains to using a particular asset who is reporting in advance on missions by those groups and the fact that he would not be useful for that particular function. Edited July 4, 2018 by Larry Hancock Additional information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Boylan Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) This is more ACSI interest in Alpha 66. http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/NARA-Nov-2017/194-10012-10037.pdf A little more on above. http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/NARA-Nov-2017/194-10012-10040.pdf Some background info. http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/NARA-Nov9-2017/104-10103-10158.pdf "I do not recall whether Mr. Shackley was on Station that day, but I recall that Mr. Anthony Sforza, AMOT case officer, told me later that he had received specific instructions from Shackley about how the AMOT service was to go about aiding in the investigation." JMWAVE'S investigation. http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/2018/104-10423-10226.pdf Edited July 5, 2018 by David Boylan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Thanks for posting that source David; much better than my general memory of it. In reading that we should remember that Shackley himself later testified that his station, JM/WAVE had conducted no JFK assassination inquiries since that work had been assigned to the Warren Commission and the FBI. Yeah, right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 Just a few notes from Destiny Betrayed on A-66 / Veciana, some I've already posted elsewhere. pg. 68. "March 1963, A-66 called a press conference in Washington. They announced an attack on a Russian freighter in a Cuban harbor... Veciana told HSCA investigator Gaeton Fonzi (Read The Last Investigation) the attack and press conference had been deliberately planned by his handler, Maurice Bishop. The purpose was to publicly embarrass Kennedy and force him to move against Castro". pg. A Soviet contact of double/triple agent spy from Military Intelligence informs him Alpha 66 is talking about an assassination plot to kill Kennedy. pgs. 111-112. Dan Campbell...used by Banister to infiltrate leftist student groups: "Banister was a bagman for the CIA and was running guns to Alpha 66 in Miami". pg. 332. "the man who supervised all of Veciana's thirteen years of anti-Castro activity...called Maurice Bishop... according to Veciana, Alpha 66 was essentially Bishop's creation. "Especially since Phillips had been at Gu Bannister's office to organize the New Orleans telethon." Time for fireworks. Happy 4th of July to all. Keep on pluggin for democracyfor all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 "(Uncle) Jack ordered the CIA's Alpha 66 commandos confined to Miami and had the Coast Guard impound the groups vessels and arrest their crews. My dad sent the FBI to Cuban exile headquarters around Florida, seizing dynamite and bombs. Jack and my father worked with the British and Bahamian Governments to shutter Alpha 66's bases in Anguilla, forty miles off the Cuban coast. Veciana told me that Phillips, who hated Jack since the Bay of Pig's, was in a murderous fury toward him after JFK shut down Alpha 66." pgs. 242-243. Chapter 7, JFK In Pursuit of Peace, American Values, Lessons I Learned from My Family, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. https://www.amazon.com/American-Values-Lessons-Learned-Family/dp/0060848340 Note: you have to scroll down to see this book, Or Order It, when you click the link. Advertisements of others first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Forgive my dumb question, I'm a neophyte. Did David Atlee Phillips work for James Angleton? Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Steve, the answer would be "no" in terms of official chain of command - on the organization chart and in terms of who filled out his personnel reviews. However Phillips often wore a couple of hats and due to the success of the Guatemala operation was seen as sort of a psyops guru, providing consulting on projects outside his normal tasking including projects out of HQ. To make it more complex, in Mexico City he performed a Counter Intelligence role, organized psyops against various targets and by the fall of 63 had a new job working for the new Cuba project head at HQ all the while doing certain tasks relating to the new AM/WORLD project and even working high profile exfiltrations from Cuba with Morales at JM/WAVE (Castro's sister being one, worked by Sforza, Morales and Phillips). He was very much in a job transition at that point in time. By the fall of 63 he had his fingers in a great many pies and so did James Angleton who was waging a turf war at HQ claiming he should be in charge of CIA both in Mexico City and Saigon. There is some reason, Bill Simpich pursues this line of thought and I address it in NEXUS, to think that Angleton and Phillips might have been working certain special projects that fall, perhaps without the full knowledge of the COS. Its interesting that both Phillips and Angleton's person in MC both got relatively poor reviews from the COS that year, possibly because of unhappiness over Phillips divided loyalties. See, now wasn't that simple...not...grin, Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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