Ever Wonder

[Evan Marshall]

If maybe there was more than one team operating independently in Dealy Plaza? Might explain some of the conflicting observations by witnesses.

I'm aware of an assassination plan in Africa where the Special Air Service realized they were across the street from some South African Special Ops folks that were there to assassinate the same leader and so both groups left without taking any action.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Evan Marshall

[W. Niederhut]

    French historian Laurent Guyenot described such a theory in his recently published book, From Yahweh to Zion.  Perhaps borrowing from Michael Collins Piper's Final Judgment, Guyenot speculated that some sort of CIA-organized false flag op had been planned, in which Oswald was posing as a pro-Castro Marxist who attempted to assassinate JFK-- as a pretext to overthrow Castro.  Concurrently, a Mossad op was implemented to actually kill JFK (because of his adamant opposition to Israel's nuclear weapons program at Dimona.)

   Somewhat convoluted, and I may be misrepresenting some details about Guyenot's theory.  The gist of his theory is that there were two different ops, and that one of them had been organized by Menachem Begin and the Mossad.

[Kathleen Collins]

I believe it was Tosh Plumlee who said he was part of a team to stop the assassination by grabbing the guns from the shooters.  They apparently knew where the shooters were.  But they didn't make it to Dealey Plaza until Kennedy's car was on Houston St., nearing the TSBD.  They were flown into Redbird Airport and flown out.

Just a curiosity -- Folk singer Phil Ochs was standing near the Dal-Tex building afterwards.  You can see it in the Cooper film or a frame of it. 

Kathy C

[Paul Brancato]

5 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

    French historian Laurent Guyenot described such a theory in his recently published book, From Yahweh to Zion.  Perhaps borrowing from Michael Collins Piper's Final Judgment, Guyenot speculated that some sort of CIA-organized false flag op had been planned, in which Oswald was posing as a pro-Castro Marxist who attempted to assassinate JFK-- as a pretext to overthrow Castro.  Concurrently, a Mossad op was implemented to actually kill JFK (because of his adamant opposition to Israel's nuclear weapons program at Dimona.)

   Somewhat convoluted, and I may be misrepresenting some details about Guyenot's theory.  The gist of his theory is that there were two different ops, and that one of them had been organized by Menachem Begin and the Mossad.

I bumped a thread for you on Bill Decker and John Tower. The idea of an assassination attempt designed to implicate Castro but also designed to be unsuccessful, hijacked by real assassins who were successful, appeals to me, and might explain a lot. That it was Mossad on its own does not. But there is a lot to ponder here. And I would add to this thread that Otto Skorzeny, a possible identity of QJWIN, did in fact do dirty work for Mossad.

[Paz Marverde]

7 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

a Mossad op was implemented to actually kill JFK (because of his adamant opposition to Israel's nuclear weapons program at Dimona.)

Yes, there was a Mossad involvement 

[Steve Thomas]

16 hours ago, Evan Marshall said:

If maybe there was more than one team operating independently in Dealy Plaza? Might explain some of the conflicting observations by witnesses.

 

Evan,

 

And it's not just the witnesses.

I've often wondered where the "French gunman on the knoll" stories of William Reymond and Steve Rivelle came from. If you did have a triangle of fire scenario, It's my private opinion, that I can in no way prove, that there was one team on the knoll, and one team in the TSBD/Dal Tex location coming out of the anti-Castro Cuban exiles milieu. If there was a third team on the south knoll, I'm not sure what their background was.

If these teams were not acting independently, but, were in fact, put together by the same planners, then the plan to sew confusion by drawing them from different backgrounds was brilliant.

 

Steve Thomas

[James DiEugenio]

Paul:

What the heck is the evidene that Skorzeny was QJ WIN?

I mean did he even know Harvey? 

 

[W. Niederhut]

7 hours ago, Paz Marverde said:

Yes, there was a Mossad involvement 

I have read, here and there, about possible Mossad links to the JFK assassination, but I don't pretend to understand the alleged evidence.

David Ben-Gurion was, allegedly, furious about JFK's adamant opposition to Israel's nuclear weapons project at Dimona.

Jack Ruby was, allegedly, in contact with L.A. mobster Micky Cohen (and Menachem Begin?)

Another possible angle I have read about has to do with Permindex and Clay Shaw.

And James Angleton, allegedly, worked closely with the Mossad during his storied career at the CIA.

[Joe Bauer]

JFK's slaughter was so extremely beneficial and necessary to so many JFK threatened power groups and individuals, his removal was inevitable.

JFK haters and enemies knew that enough Americans had become so enamored with him ( and Jackie ) during his time in office that there was no way he would lose the election of 1964.

That reality check obviously spurred on the most desperate JFK removal counter plan imaginable.

Joseph Milteer's recorded conversation to a Miami police informant where he describes the exact JFK shooting scenario and a patsy being caught soon after 13 days before it happened just as he predicted rings too coincidental imo.

Who was Joseph Milteer? He was an organizer for the racist National States Rights Party and the Constitution Party. The latter organization's membership included retired Marine General Pedro del Valle, about whom Drew Pearson wrote in 1961 that del Valle came close to "urging armed insurrection." If Milteer's predictions were indeed based on foreknowledge, then the path to Kennedy's real killers would lead to right-wing segregationists and military extremists, categories which included some very powerful people.

 

[Paul Brancato]

1 hour ago, Joe Bauer said:

JFK's slaughter was so extremely beneficial and necessary to so many JFK threatened power groups and individuals, his removal was inevitable.

JFK haters and enemies knew that enough Americans had become so enamored with him ( and Jackie ) during his time in office that there was no way he would lose the election of 1964.

That reality check obviously spurred on the most desperate JFK removal counter plan imaginable.

Joseph Milteer's recorded conversation to a Miami police informant where he describes the exact JFK shooting scenario and a patsy being caught soon after 13 days before it happened just as he predicted rings too coincidental imo.

Who was Joseph Milteer? He was an organizer for the racist National States Rights Party and the Constitution Party. The latter organization's membership included retired Marine General Pedro del Valle, about whom Drew Pearson wrote in 1961 that del Valle came close to "urging armed insurrection." If Milteer's predictions were indeed based on foreknowledge, then the path to Kennedy's real killers would lead to right-wing segregationists and military extremists, categories which included some very powerful people.

 

General Pedro Del Valle was also a member of the American Security Council. Have you looked at that bunch of rabid scoundrels?

[Paul Brancato]

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

I have read, here and there, about possible Mossad links to the JFK assassination, but I don't pretend to understand the alleged evidence.

David Ben-Gurion was, allegedly, furious about JFK's adamant opposition to Israel's nuclear weapons project at Dimona.

Jack Ruby was, allegedly, in contact with L.A. mobster Micky Cohen (and Menachem Begin?)

Another possible angle I have read about has to do with Permindex and Clay Shaw.

And James Angleton, allegedly, worked closely with the Mossad during his storied career at the CIA.

Permindex and Clay Shaw - linked to Canadian financier Mortimer Bloomfield, major supporter of Israel.

Angleton ran the Mossad Desk, whatever that was, in the CIA, vacationed in Israel and by some accounts helped Israel get nukes by looking the other way when fissionable materials disappeared from US stockpiles. I’m sure he wanted Israel to be a nuclear power and helped make it happen.

[Joe Bauer]

8 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

General Pedro Del Valle was also a member of the American Security Council. Have you looked at that bunch of rabid scoundrels?

Paul I haven't. But I will.

[Evan Marshall]

JM Wave. Israel would only be a distant memory had they moved against the US in such a fashion.

[Paul Brancato]

6 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Paul:

What the heck is the evidene that Skorzeny was QJ WIN?

I mean did he even know Harvey? 

 

Jim - first, I would suggest you read the Skorzeny Papers. But what I dug up before that book came out was that Arnold Silver, CIC veteran and later Luxembourg COS, who ran Skorzeny’s interrogation (way too harsh a word for how he handled Skorzeny) and concluded he wasn’t a Nazi (!!!) and recommended that Otto be allowed to leave US custody and go to Madrid, Skorzeny’s stated desire, also recruited QJWIN for Harvey. 

Ive asked anyone on this Forum to present anything on Jose Marie Andre Mankel that doesn’t come from the CIA. No one has come up with anything. Ive asked that everyone look at the YouTube video of Skorzeny’s interview with a Canadian journalist when he states he worked for Intelligence agencies for years, including the ‘enemies of Castro’. Skorzeny was hired by Mossad in 1961 to destroy Egypt’s nuclear program, which he did.  I posted an interview with an anti -Castro Cuban from 1962 where he mentions arms deals with Skorzeny arranged by someone named Gonzalez. In Garrisons Papers, posted by Steve Thomas, Cosmo shipping is mentioned along with a principal of the company Manuel Gonzales. Wondering about that too but can’t find anything. However, I think Cosmo shipping ran arms deals. 

 

[James DiEugenio]

But Paul:

Where else would the info on QJ Win's identity come from except the CIA?  I mean who else would know for sure?

Unless its QJ WIN himself.

Its true that the CIA paid Skorzeny to support Katanga, but I have never heard of any info saying he was involved in the Lumumba plots.  And we have a lot of info on those plots today due to the ARRB.  John Newman's second volume had a lot of good info about the Lumumba plots, and there are other good sources around.  No one I know has ever said that Skorzeny was in on them, let alone he was QJ Win.

As per this book, I have to question the thesis of an author who buys what are supposed to be secret papers on E Bay, and then writes a book based on them and then does not include the actual documents as an appendix in order to cross check his work.  

Edited July 28, 2018 by James DiEugenio