Michael Clark Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 16 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said: It was my understanding that what Scott/Simpich are saying is that some lower level rogues horned in on an upper level sanctioned mission that somehow they knew about. What David is showing is that instead of the lower level guys duping the upper level guys, the lower level guys really did not know what was happening. And then the CIA got Echeverria to cover up their plotting. Michael: per the other point, Angleton could not admit that Oswald was not down there. Because then that would have blown the whole CYA cover up that the cables caused on the 22nd. Gotcha I am seeing DAP as blindsiding and duping Angleton. DAP is one of the rogues, along with Hunt and Morales. I don’t see DAP as being low level. I guess the bottom line for me is, and I don’t expect any agreement on this, is that Angleton was not a conspirator. He was stovepipe out of the plot, duped, and framed, all at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 9 hours ago, Michael Clark said: Gotcha I am seeing DAP as blindsiding and duping Angleton. DAP is one of the rogues, along with Hunt and Morales. I don’t see DAP as being low level. I guess the bottom line for me is, and I don’t expect any agreement on this, is that Angleton was not a conspirator. He was stovepipe out of the plot, duped, and framed, all at the same time. Michael, have you read Wilderness of Mirrors? Your summary just does not sound like something JJA would let happen To himself... remember he’s head od CIA CI.... a master planner and plotter... whether he was KGB like Philby is an issue more real to me than his being duped in MX. and then there’s that Russian officers book claiming he was in MX... and Nosenko, another false defector, provides BS on Oswald. It seems even today we do not understand that Russian CI is designed to muddy the waters, not steal secrets but plant lies which dictate policy getting us running in circles. Finally, also look very closely at the entire Alvarado incident... that was DAP, entirely. The dates, his story, his background.... when Cuba is taken off the table, see how DAP manipulates his asset... I’d need to see much more to be convinced JJA was fooled here somehow... As to Oz in MX... what proves he was there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, David Josephs said: Michael, have you read Wilderness of Mirrors? No sir Quote Your summary just does not sound like something JJA would let happen To himself... remember he’s head od CIA CI.... a master planner and plotter... whether he was KGB like Philby is an issue more real to me than his being duped in MX. Foreign lntel agents spying on you is to be expected. CIA agents plotting against you and the president is treason Quote and then there’s that Russian officers book claiming he was in MX... and Nosenko, another false defector, provides BS on Oswald. It seems even today we do not understand that Russian CI is designed to muddy the waters, not steal secrets but plant lies which dictate policy getting us running in circles. Finally, also look very closely at the entire Alvarado incident... that was DAP, entirely. The dates, his story, his background.... Very probable Quote when Cuba is taken off the table, see how DAP manipulates his asset... I’d need to see much more to be convinced JJA was fooled here somehow... Quote As to Oz in MX... what proves he was there? My point is that the fact that there is no evidence he was there does not mean he wasn’t there. Withheld evidence of LHO in MXC could be a Sword if Damocles, hanging over and controlling JJA. I’m not saying it’s true. I’m just saying it’s possible. And if JJA is innocent in the JFKA, it’s probable. Edited July 30, 2018 by Michael Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 5 hours ago, Michael Clark said: My point is that the fact that there is no evidence he was there does not mean he wasn’t there. Sounds like the Judy Baker mantra. There is strong evidence he was not there... That's not the same as there not being evidence of him in MX or on the journey to or fro. What do you think Hoover means here? and how does he play into the "rogue CIA" scenario? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 Can or should we expect to see mention of OSWALD in the LITEMPO summary reports? It appears they discuss a variety of occurrences worth noting before and after Oswald is supposedly there.... or the assumption that LITEMPO would include Oswald incorrect? https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu//NSAEBB/NSAEBB204/8.pdf LITEMPO summary report Sept 1963 https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu//NSAEBB/NSAEBB204/3.pdf LITEMPO summary report Oct 1963 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted August 10, 2018 Author Share Posted August 10, 2018 So I am still trying to find a contemporaneous "Summary or Progress" report from October 1963 related to the coverage of the SOVIET EMBASSY (LIMERICK) which identifies OSWALD I posted this before - at the same time the reports on the PHOTOGRAPHIC coverage of the Soviet Embassy/Consulate above are not mentioning the unidentified American, the PHONE TAPS of the lines OSWALD supposedly used (both the Attache and Embassy) only produced 2 LEADS IN SEPT... and neither one was Oswald visiting and/or calling the Soviets. It would seem that LIERODE which had some camera problems was covering a different location. 2566 prints (counted and reviewed - obviously) also do not warrant mention of Oswald or an American.... https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=4463#relPageId=2&tab=page And here is the report from NOV 14 for OCTOBER 1963: https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/104-10211-10140.pdf Over 3000 photos with specific mention of Oct 3,4,5... LIFIRE A joint program with the Mexican security forces. LIFIRE obtained passenger manifests of all commercial flights, passport photographs of travelers to Cuba, and could sometimes even follow a passenger to the hotel with their surveillance truck. LIEMPTY Umbrella surveillance project in Mexico City, formerly code-named LIPSTICK. Included a variety of sub-projects under it. LIENVOY CIA telephone tapping program in Mexico City, targeting Cuban and Soviet embassies and run in conjunction with the Mexican DFS. Netted phone calls allegedy of Oswald. See also LIFEAT. This is the LIENVOY Monthly Operational Report for SEPT 1963... https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10211-10113.pdf Of note is mention of no significant ??? contacts and "No problems during the month" Also of some interesting significance is the date, Oct 8, is the first day DAP is running the show on Mexico City's Cuban Desk... and the same day memo about OSWALD's intercepts goes to CIA HQ. We must ask ourselves... if there were intercepts known to the MX station for the Oct 8 Memo, why isn't it also on the contemporaneous summary reports? LIMERICK Soviet Embassy in Mexico City. LICALLA One of three photo surveillance sites under the LIEMPTY umbrella project. LILYRIC was an apartment which provided a view of the back of the Soviet Embassy compound in Mexico City. The other two photo sites were LIMITED and LILYRIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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