Plaza Man: Bob Groden vs the City of Dallas

[James DiEugenio]

If you have not seen this film Plaza Man, you really should.  Our writer, Frank Cassano, found it online and asked if I ever saw it.  I said no, why don't you review it?

Its an interesting and ultimately touching film.  Its not so much about the nuts and bolts of the JFK case.  Its really about the price some people pay for their refusal to knuckle under to the will of the Power Elite. Its a reprise in film form of what Frank refers to at the end of the review, the idea that Garrison talked about in his Playboy interview:  "What happens to the individual who dissents?"

And although its focus is on Groden vs Dallas (represented by the Sixth Floor and the late Gary Mack) ,as Frank notes,  its easy to expand that metaphorically into the national power elite vs the critical community. 

Overall, an unusual and distinguished film.  Everyone should watch it.

 

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-reviews/plaza-man-robert-groden-vs-the-city-of-dallas

Edited July 31, 2018 by James DiEugenio

[Rick McTague]

Stunning news at 27:45 or so into this - they offered the directorship of the 6th Floor Museum to Groden, for a lot of money and to shut him up about the truth.  He couldn't live with himself so he rejected the offer, whereas Gary Mack took it all.  It's a cabal that keeps the truth out: the City of Dallas, the MSM, the U.S. government and their private mouthpieces such as DVP.

Thanks for the link to this film.

As a sad side note, it shocked me that he and his wife decided he would be a remote husband and father in Dallas, while they lived in PA.  I'm not sure what kind of man leaves his post to dedicate himself to his job, but that's just a personal observation.  I'd imagine his family would want to have had him around.

Thanks

[Joe Bauer]

I do not have the time to watch the entire documentary this morning.

I did however watch it up until the time of Groden describing the offer to him of the directorship of the Sixth Floor Museum.

Like Rick McTague, I was stunned to learn of this.

And even more stunned when the yearly salary involved was disclosed to Groden.

Does the President of the United States make very much more per year?

$250,000 a year?      WOW!

 That figure is mind blowing considering how much ( or little? ) I would imagine this directorship would require in job effort.  

I assumed this salary might be in the $75,000 to $100,000 range. However, I can now believe and understand how and why someone would be willing to compromise their integrity in the JFK conspiracy community, as Gary Mack did, for an instant lift into such a seductively high 6 figure income.

Over just a ten year period that directorship would have compensated Groden with a total income of $2,500,000!

I think about how much that huge and tempting $250,000 yearly income could have been spent providing better than well for Bob Groden's wife and children in so many ways while he was apart from them.

It is heroically inspiring that Groden chose his integrity over that huge dollar amount offer.

I will see the rest of the Groden documentary later.

But just viewing the first 30 minutes is so powerful.

It does bring to mind similar JFK truth seeking sacrifices by Jim Garrison, Mark Lane, etc. 

 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Joe Bauer

[John Butler]

Thanks Joe for pointing this out,

I don't have a very high opinion of Robert Groden since meeting the man in 2015 in Dealey Plaza.  However, I am now changing my opinion to a more positive one.

[Joe Bauer]

Thank you John.

And thank you Jim Di for posting this link to this remarkable and moving Bob Groden documentary.

John, I don't know what you saw of Groden in 2015 to form your less than high opinion of him. Was it his personality? His message? Maybe his aggressive hawking of his books?

I will never meet the man myself.

If Groden's late-in-life personal demeanor is in any way gruff, grumpy, short and easily irritated, overly pushy in book selling or even aggressively overly opinionated, I too would be turned off by this.

However, after seeing this documentary of Groden I am more likely to grant him such negative personal interaction traits without significantly diminishing my appreciation for what he has contributed to and sacrificed for the JFK truth. Especially considering what surely must be decades long battle weariness and what he has sacrificed and given up in this endeavor.

I could never have done anything close to what Groden and others like him have contributed and sacrificed for this truth seeking cause.

[James DiEugenio]

Joe:

Correction.  The offer to Gary Mack was not nearly as high as the offer to Groden.  Groden was going to be the Director of the Museum.

Gary was offered the curator job.  I think his salary was actually about 110,000 per year or perhaps a bit more. 

Edited July 31, 2018 by James DiEugenio

[Joe Bauer]

Oh, I see. Thanks for pointing out this fact JD.

My suggestion of Mack's turnaround being mainly about such a huge salary is less valid I suppose.

 But still, an offer of $250,000 a year salary must have given Groden more than a few late night thought pauses.

Jim D. I watched the interview of you with Roger Stone on You Tube yesterday.

You were incredibly restrained in my opinion.

I could almost feel your many "oh brother" thoughts via your eyes down expression and finger tapping when Stone would bring up less than good research valid points in his JFK assassination analysis presentation. Stone's mentioning of Oswald's alleged New Orleans girlfriend Judyth Baker especially.

Your explaining JFK's true history, thoughts and stances on Viet Nam going back into the early 50's was so important and elucidative.

May I ask what you think of Stone's JFK assassination analysis overall?

Edited July 31, 2018 by Joe Bauer

[James DiEugenio]

One one hand Stone did bring some attention to the subject since he has a big name.

OTOH, I did not agree with much of what he said.  Certainly not on Judy Baker.  Or the father of Ted Cruz.

I also thought he had a prime opportunity to demolish Posner in their debate in Coral Gables.  But he did not.

[David Von Pein]

FYI....

Here's the "Plaza Man" trailer:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1d9MooGuoEcxP9-eIePvbwTiQ3KPyexki/view

[James DiEugenio]

Davey:

The link to the whole film is at the bottom of the review.

But I should add, Len Osanic told me that the director may come out with a longer version of the film later this year.  This one is about 60 minutes.

Its hard to get distribution for a film that short.  Especially on this subject.

[David Von Pein]

43 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

The link to the whole film is at the bottom of the review.

Oh, OK. I didn't see the link. Thanks, Jim.

Here's the direct link to the whole film:

https://www.npostart.nl/2doc/11-11-2015/VPWON_1250532

 

Edited July 31, 2018 by David Von Pein

[Gene Kelly]

Excellent article by Frank Cassano ... an excerpt:

In 1995, Bob Groden left his home, wife and family in Pennsylvania. Alone, he moved to Dallas from the small town of Boothwyn. His objective was to give the Warren Commission critics a voice against the Sixth Floor Museum’s unalterable promotion of the Warren Report. By that time, the Museum was well on its way to its current status of treating hundreds of thousands of people per year, at sixteen bucks a crack, to what Michael Morrissey once called the Biggest Lie of the second half of the twentieth century: namely, that Oswald killed Kennedy. When Groden arrived is when the battle was joined. This gunfight has taken place at the intersection of Houston and Elm Street. Gary Mack was firing a bazooka, tossing out grenades, scorching the earth, using psychological warfare, setting boobytraps and snares from his walled fortress with its drawbridge and moat at the museum.

On the other hand, Robert Groden was sitting out across the street on the legendary Grassy Knoll. He was exposed, out in the open, armed only with his books, magazines and DVDs. Talk about bringing a pea shooter to a gunfight. Bob Groden showed up armed with nothing but a deck chair, a folding card table and his research, which showed that just about everything that Mack and The Sixth Floor stood for was wrong. I doubt that’s where Bob thought this would all lead: a David (Groden) vs. Goliath/(Mack) mismatch. After all, as depicted in this film, he and Gary used to be friends. In fact, at one time, he considered Gary his best friend. They went on vacations together and he stayed at Gary’s home. But something happened. That something was two offers of employment; both by the Sixth Floor. One was to Groden; he was offered the directorship from a man named Robert Hayes and the salary was $235,000 per year to start. There was one qualification ... Bob had to stop saying anything about that conspiracy that killed Kennedy.  Bob said, well, I can’t do that, so he did not get the job. Gary Mack was offered the opportunity to replace Conover Hunt as curator. That job did not pay as much as the one offered to Groden. But it didn’t matter to Mack; he had no reservations about reversing field on just about everything he had previously said about the JFK case. So now, the former friends became enemies. As the film shows, this went as far as the Sixth Floor having the police arrest and ticket Groden many, many times. It was a Battle Royale.

[Gene Kelly]

In Groden's July 1996 AARB interview, he reveals some interesting facts about the Nix film:

When the films were delivered to them, what they received was the original Nix film - the color original Nix film. But the copy of the Muchmore film that they got was a black and white copy. It was a duplicate. It wasn’t the original.  And they called me about that-And I said, “No, no. The original film was color. It was not black and white.”  And they went back, and they searched and searched and searched, and they finally found it.  And what they found was that the film was in two pieces. Somebody had physically cut the film at the frame of the head shot.  What Mr. Weisman had done at that point, in order to save the film-to prevent it from m losing frames is, instead of doing a professional cement splice, which would have cost them at least two frames, he Mylar spliced it - took Mylar tape to it and spliced it. The alignment on that particular frame is not exacting. And because of the cut, there is a white bar - a space that exists in that frame.  But he was able to save the film without losing the frames on that. 

[Gene Kelly]

What a fascinating JFK curriculum vitae that Bob Groden has:

• In 1973, Groden showed the Zapruder film to a symposium of assassination researchers at Georgetown
• In February, 1975, Groden and Stephen Jaffee, an investigator for Garrison, testified before the Rockefeller Commission
• On March 6, 1975, he and Dick Gregory appeared on Good Night America and showed Groden's copy of the Zapruder film (prompting the HSCA)
• In 1975, Groden co-authored JFK: The Case for Conspiracy
• In the 1980s, Groden was a consultant for Oliver Stone's 1991 film JFK  appearing in cameo roles as a Parkland doctor and the courtroom projectionist at the Shaw trial
• In 1989 Groden co-authored High Treason
• During the OJ Simpson trial, Groden appeared as an expert witness and testified that a 1993 photograph of Simpson wearing Bruno Magli shoes at an NFL game was a forgery

[John Butler]

Thanks for your comments Joe,

Those comments really help in having a better opinion of Robert Groden.  My biggest problem with him and his followers that day in Dealey Plaza was their fervent belief in the authenticity of the Zapruder film.  I was moderately convinced that parts of the Zapruder film were fake.  When I mentioned this to the folks there they just walked away with no reply or discussion.  That didn't bother me as much as over time I begin to see more and more that the Zapruder film is just a fantasy.  And, that has lowered my opinion of Robert Groden.

Still, all in all, I use his Assassination Films DVD a great deal.  I prefer the DVD, even with all of the bad imagery present, more than modern cleaned up versions.  There are all kinds of hidden gems in those films that people have missed or ignored for whatever reason.