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Keyvan Shahrdar

"took it out of the body bag." - Richard Lipsey, JFK Honor Guard

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Posted (edited)

Just came by this video on YouTube.  Apparently, the president's body was in a body bag.  I always thought that was bunk, now I have to rethink this.

"In an interview with political scientist Stacia Haynie, Richard Lipsey shares his personal experiences as a 24-year-old Army First Lieutenant serving as the aid to the Commanding General in charge of diplomatic protocol and security. Following the 1963 assassination of US President "

 

Edited by Keyvan Shahrdar

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I am surprised at the negatives comments and dislikes on this recently-posted video (thanks for letting us know!). Lipsey was definitely there; 100 percent documented and the HSCA interviewed him. I corresponded with him 20 years ago and David Lifton famously spoke to him.

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Does this guy still not get that he described evidence for conspiracy and cover-up? Nobody broke it to him that a bullet shouldn't have entered the EOP and exited the throat?

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15 hours ago, Micah Mileto said:

Does this guy still not get that he described evidence for conspiracy and cover-up? Nobody broke it to him that a bullet shouldn't have entered the EOP and exited the throat?

Not only that, Micah, but there were no body bags in use at Parkland for JFK.  The nurses and other personnel all describe wrapping JFK up in sheets, with mattress covers to protect the lining of the expensive bronze casket.  I wish the interviewer would have also asked about the vehicle that the coffin was unloaded from, and about the coffin itself.

Thanks

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Posted (edited)

Just watched the Ted Talk video interview of Richard Lipsey.

Up to seeing this video I knew nothing of Lipsey.

So I don't have much to say about him and his background.

However, I too wondered about Lipsey's statement regarding taking JFK out of a body bag at Bethesda.

At what point between JFK being declared dead at Parkland and arriving at Bethesda was his body ever placed in a body bag and who did this?

 Was this done at Parkland? On Air Force 1?

Navy medical tech at Bethesda Paul O'Conner verified the body bag account in his recounting of JFK's body being delivered to his station at Bethesda around 8:00 PM on 11,22,1963 in his testimony at the 1986 "Trial Of Lee Harvey Oswald."

Paul O'Conner also testified as to the scene in the JFK autopsy room as he saw this and being within feet and even inches of JFK's body during this.

Richard Lipsey's description in the Ted Talk interview of the autopsy scene is ridiculously different from Paul O'Conner who was there and situated even closer to JFK's body than Lipsey.

Lipsey depicts the autopsy scene as almost casual, with very few on-site witnesses in the room and nothing like Oliver Stone's chaotic depiction in his film "JFK."

Lipsey also does not even mention the presence of JFK's personal physician Admiral Burkley at the autopsy. Burkley was there. And his presence could not have been missed.

Lipsey says FBI or Secret Service persons occasionally stuck their heads in the door from time to time.

I am providing a link to Navy medial tech Paul O'Conner's sworn testimony at the 1986 "Trial Of Lee Harvey Oswald."

In this, Paul O'Conner stated the autopsy amphitheater type room was "jam packed" during JFK's autopsy and the scene was "hysterical."

Compare Lipsey's depiction of the autopsy scene with O'Conner's.

They are so ridiculously opposite, one of them has to be lying.

mqdefault_6s.webp?du=3000&sqp=COLsp9sF&rs=AOn4CLCFinYeDxpWNF1vAt6apytqB0D4mQ
 
Part 19 of 23. http://On-Trial-LHO.blogspot.com.
Edited by Joe Bauer

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Posted (edited)

Just watched again the TED TALK interview of Richard Lipsey.

In the later part of the interview Lipsey responds to the show host's question asking Lipsey what he thought about " there are a lot of conspiracy theories, what's your opinion?" 

Lipsey says, after a minute or two of explaining how the bullet fragments recovered from the President's brain matched the shell casings found on the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building and the doctors agreed that JFK was hit by two bullets from behind that "there is no question Lee Harvey Oswald is the lone assassin."

There you have it.  A nice and simple summation of the JFK assassination and with Oswald as the assassin, based primarily on what Lipsey feels are two main evidence reasons.

Was Lipsey known as a serious JFK assassination researcher?

His recounting of his personal contact with JFK in life and after his death as a Lieutenant in the Army was sentimentally touching, but superficial in my mind.

I just read Lipsey's sworn testimony to the HSCA on 1/18/1978.

I was shocked at the information he shared to that committee compared to what he shared in this TED TALK interview.

I ask everyone here who has checked in on this thread to read Lipsey's HSCA testimony.

And then comment on both interviews and what I see as incredibly stark discrepancies from one to the other.

HSCA INTERVIEW WITH RICHARD LIPSEY, 1-18-78 - History Matters

[NOTE: This transcript was created by Debra Conway of JFK Lancer Productions and Publications.] Q: We are interviewing Richard A. Lipsey. The day is Jan 18, ...

 

Edited by Joe Bauer

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9 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Lipsey says, after a minute or two of the explaining how the bullet fragments recovered from the President's brain matched the shell casings found on the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building and the doctors agreed that JFK was hit by two bullets from behind that "there is no question Lee Harvey Oswald is the lone assassin."

 

And you can perform this ballistic analysis by observing an autopsy?

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Rick, exactly.

 

You must read Lipsey's sworn HSCA testimony.

Listen to Lipsy's Ted Talk interview first. Then read the HSCA testimony second.

Its really a quite shocking contradiction in stated observations between the two interviews.

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Posted (edited)

David Lifton's theory as to why different witnesses to the autopsy saw different things is that groups of people were brought in at different times. And those present at one time were ushered out so that x-rays could be taken... or so that was the excuse given to them.

This could also explain why some witnesses saw a gaping hole on the back-right of the head, yet others saw an enormous hole on the top-right. The latter group apparently were admitted after the scalp had been peeled back (I can't recall the medical term for that at the moment) and the bone fragments removed.

One witness saw no brain. Either he was mistaken or he entered the room after the brain was removed. (Actually the brain just sort of fell out without cutting, according to at least one witness.)

I also believe that the body was brought in twice... first by men in suits (CIA?), and then by the honor guard. Obviously the body had to secretly be removed so that it could be brought in a second time. The first time, the body was brought in inside a shipping casket and was in a body bag. The second time, it was inside the ornamental casket that it was placed in at Parkland.

The reason I believe these things is because there is corroboration for both ways the body was said to be brought in. I don't agree with everything Lifton wrote in Best Evidence, but  I believe that he is right about these things.

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen

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10 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

The reason I believe these things is because there is corroboration for both ways that the body was bright in. I don't agree with everything Lifton wrote in Best Evidence, but  I believe that he is right about these things.

 

Sandy,

Nicely put.  The witnesses and evidence for the multiple caskets, multiple casket entries by multiple teams are totally believable.  I don't know if you've seen this video or not, of a member of the honor guard Hugh Clark speaking at a JFK conference with Jim Marrs, Peter Dale Scott and others is one example.  BTW, his book "Betrayal is a fascinating read.

Thanks

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Posted (edited)

I've read Lipsey's HSCA testimony and most of it consistent with testimony from others. For example, he spoke of the doctors hypothesizing a bullet path where it enters the EOP and exits the throat. Humes et. al. testified for the HSCA and elsewhere that the bullet penetrated the scalp at the EOP site, and then tunneled along the skull between the skull and the skin. At that point of the HSCA testimony one of the docs cautioned that what they were talking about shouldn't be on the record, and the tape recorder was shut off. But what they said is consistent with what Lipsey said. They apparently thought that the bullet penetrated the scalp near the EOP,  skidded down along the skull, traveled through the neck, and exited the throat.

If I remember correctly, Lipsey testified that the doctors were adamant about that being the path the bullet followed. I've wondered if Humes reported that in his first autopsy report... the one he burned.

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen

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" Lipsey says, after a minute or two of explaining how the bullet fragments recovered from the President's brain matched the shell casings found on the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building and the doctors agreed that JFK was hit by two bullets from behind that "there is no question Lee Harvey Oswald is the lone assassin." "

Exactly how are "bullet fragments" matched to "shell casings"?

Unless the " fragments" are large enough, and undamaged enough, to determine the caliber of the bullet, there is no way to "match" a particular bullet to a particular casing. Casings are crimped at the base of the bullet, but there is no "signature" mark that a casing leaves on a bullet, to the exclusion of other casings of the same caliber.

So I call BS right there.

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3 hours ago, Mark Knight said:

" Lipsey says, after a minute or two of explaining how the bullet fragments recovered from the President's brain matched the shell casings found on the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building and the doctors agreed that JFK was hit by two bullets from behind that "there is no question Lee Harvey Oswald is the lone assassin."


It seems to me that Lipsey has an axe to grind with conspiracy theorists and will say anything (following the official story) to show they are wrong. Even if it is dishonest.

 

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11 hours ago, Mark Knight said:

" Lipsey says, after a minute or two of explaining how the bullet fragments recovered from the President's brain matched the shell casings found on the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building and the doctors agreed that JFK was hit by two bullets from behind that "there is no question Lee Harvey Oswald is the lone assassin." "

Really Lipsey? I'm pretty sure you used to say that you remembered the doctors agreeing that JFK was hit by THREE bullets!

 

Lipsey.jpg

 

[...]The only thing, and it's certainly not going to hold up under any court of law-type thing. But, I can remember when the Warren Commission was formed. Everybody's writing books about it. All the comments on how many times he was shot and the angles. I remember Walter Cronkite doing this big CBS thing on who shot him -- how many directions it came from. I can remember vividly in my mind on literally hundreds of occasions, saying these people are crazy. I watched the autopsy and I know for a fact he was shot three times. And the doctors were firmly convinced they all came out of the same gun because of the type of wounds or the entrances, whatever. I wish I could be more specific. I remember going back to the autopsy. I can remember specifically the next week, the next month. Over the period of the next year or so. Which was when I really remember what went on in the room. These people were crazy.
I can remember in my own mind, they're trying to read something into it that didn't happen. One book came out that he was shot from three different angles, another report came out he was only shot once, another that he was shot seven times. All kinds of…Everybody had their own versions of what happened, how many sounds they heard, and the angles of the fire they came from. I definitely remember the doctors commenting they were convinced that the shots came from the same direction and from the same type of weapon -- and it was three shots.


Q: Did they also feel --did the doctors state that three separate bullets had struck?


LIPSEY: This is one other thing, that to the best of my memory, today, and remembering what I thought about when all these reports came out absolutely, unequivocally yes, they were convinced that he had been shot three times.


Q: It's unclear to me from the sketch that you did where there are three bullets.


LIPSEY: One on the right side of his head, one on the upper point of his neck and one on the lower part of his neck.


Q: Well, on your sketch, you labeled two points as points of entrance.


LIPSEY: One point was just blown away. This point was just blown away. I just can't remember whether there was a point of entrance and then the blown away part or whether it -- he must have been sitting like this and it hit like this and went in just blew that away or if it ripped the whole section away.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/8/2018 at 2:31 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

I've read Lipsey's HSCA testimony and most of it consistent with testimony from others. For example, he spoke of the doctors hypothesizing a bullet path where it enters the EOP and exits the throat. Humes et. al. testified for the HSCA and elsewhere that the bullet penetrated the scalp at the EOP site, and then tunneled along the skull between the skull and the skin. At that point of the HSCA testimony one of the docs cautioned that what they were talking about shouldn't be on the record, and the tape recorder was shut off. But what they said is consistent with what Lipsey said. They apparently thought that the bullet penetrated the scalp near the EOP,  skidded down along the skull, traveled through the neck, and exited the throat.

If I remember correctly, Lipsey testified that the doctors were adamant about that being the path the bullet followed. I've wondered if Humes reported that in his first autopsy report... the one he burned.

 

A few things in Lipsey's HSCA testimony and TED TALK statements that gave me pause. Some minor. Some not.

In the TED TALK interview he exaggerated the distance he was seated from the autopsy table. He told the host he was no more than 2 feet extra distance away from the body than the distance between himself and the TT interviewer and that looked to be about 3 feet. That's 5 to 6 feet away from the autopsy table?

In Lipsey's HSCA testimnoy he told them he was 12 to 15 feet away. That's a lot of extra room and would definitely affect his recollections of what he saw and heard versus just 6 feet away.

He also mentioned his fear when landing in the Army helicopter behind Bethesda that one slight mistake and the helicopters rotator blades could cut off the heads of many in the crowd of 4,000 there. 4,000?

He also said to the HSCA that he didn't know how many people came in to the autopsy room when he first sat down.

He also was seated on the left side of JFK's body which blocked any view of the much more right side head damage to JFK's body.

He mentions Sam Bird having one of his men go and get them hamburgers which they then ate during the autopsy while seated there.

 Really?  No one came to tell them that this baseball game munch down might be a little inappropriate in that situation?

How many times did Lipsey mention "3 shots" in the HSCA interview? In the Ted Talk interview he never mentions 3 shots.

His HSCA testimony tone seemed weirdly flippant to me. Inter-spiced with a few added unimportant personal feeling comments that I guess he thought was funny.

 

There's more. Will add soon.

 

Edited by Joe Bauer

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