David Josephs Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 FWIW my attempt at showing connections based on the great work in these pages... Col Kail seems an interesting crossroads.... right back to Vosjoli The way this looks, 488th as a brainchild of Crisman is very interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 2 hours ago, David Josephs said: FWIW my attempt at showing connections based on the great work in these pages... Col Kail seems an interesting crossroads.... right back to Vosjoli The way this looks, 488th as a brainchild of Crisman is very interesting David - really appreciate your work, find it difficult to read your road map. Where is the possible connection between Crisman and the 488th? Kail is everywhere for sure. I’m trying to find accurate physical descriptions of people like Kail, Colonel Bishop, Crisman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 (edited) Crisman seems connected to Whitmeyer and ACIS.... but point still taken... 488th may only be a Crisman thing.... then again, when have you ever heard of the army intelligence "letting" someone do something like that without orders and backstops? edit: still may not be real just saying it probably served some purpose within Army Intel / CI Edited March 16, 2019 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Boylan Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Decent read on MI and army Intell. I don't see the 488th discussed. https://fas.org/irp/agency/army/evolution.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 1 hour ago, David Boylan said: Decent read on MI and army Intell. I don't see the 488th discussed. https://fas.org/irp/agency/army/evolution.pdf David, Thanks for this. I agree it's a pretty good read. From page 104 of the document: page 121 of the pdf file: https://fas.org/irp/agency/army/evolution.pdf “Cryptologic support paralleled that just described. In Europe, the 7th Army was supported by the 507th ASA Group, which in turn had the 318th and 319th ASA Battalions each supporting a corps. In Korea, the 508th ASA Group supported 8th Army.” Dennis Offstein worked with Oswald at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall On December 6, 1963 Thomas Crigler was interviewed by the FBI. He said that he met Ofstein “accidentally” on the street. See FBI interview of Crigler December 6, 1963: CD 205 p. 478 https://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672#relPageId=481&tab=page Thomas H. Crigler, Jr., 1705 McAdams, advised he is currently a Staff Sergeant, U.S. Army Security Agency, Field Representative, assigned to U.S. Army Recruiting Station, Dallas. He advised that he and Dennis Ofstein were assigned to the same U.S. Army branch in Europe and that he knew Ofstein from about June, 1960 to December, 1960 purely as another person attached to the same unit with him. He said that he had never become socially or well acquainted with Ofstein at that time. He said the caption of their group was the 507th USASA Group, Heilbron, West Germany.” However, he said later in his FBI interview that about a week after meeting Ofstein in the street in August, Ofstein and his family came to Crigler's house, and that twice more he and his wife visited Ofstein at his (Ofstein's) house. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 1 hour ago, David Boylan said: Decent read on MI and army Intell. I don't see the 488th discussed. https://fas.org/irp/agency/army/evolution.pdf From page 106: “The MI career branch was charged with nominating MI officers for division and higher G2 positions, worldwide. An extensive education program within the Continental Army Command's service schools on military intelligence was ordered, leading to assignment of MI officers to these schools as instructors and branch representatives.” And here is where the 4150th Training School in Dallas comes in. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 3 hours ago, David Josephs said: Crisman seems connected to Whitmeyer and ACIS.... but point still taken... 488th may only be a Crisman thing.... then again, when have you ever heard of the army intelligence "letting" someone do something like that without orders and backstops? edit: still may not be real just saying it probably served some purpose within Army Intel / CI Ahh - you mean Crichton, not Crisman. if it was just a legend in Crichton’s mind. Why would Brandstetter be ok’d by Colonel Rose at ACSI to join the 488th in 1959? I think what we have here are earlier sources that have been disappeared. Wouldn’t be the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Yes, Crichton... Crisman is the UFO guy... Maury Island.... thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I can’t download a screenshot of an article, but it’s from the October 15, 1964 edition of the newspaper The Eagle, Bryan, TX. It was written during Colonel Cichton’s Run for Texas Governor in 1964 as a Goldwater Republican against John Connolly. (Crichton) “is now Colonel and commanding officer 488th Military Intelligence Department, US Army Reserve”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 34 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said: I can’t download a screenshot of an article, but it’s from the October 15, 1964 edition of the newspaper The Eagle, Bryan, TX. It was written during Colonel Cichton’s Run for Texas Governor in 1964 as a Goldwater Republican against John Connolly. (Crichton) “is now Colonel and commanding officer 488th Military Intelligence Department, US Army Reserve”. Paul, Where did you see this? Do you have a url? Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephanie Goldberg Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) Post deleted - better content further in thread Edited March 20, 2019 by Stephanie Goldberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephanie Goldberg Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) Post deleted - better content further in thread Edited March 20, 2019 by Stephanie Goldberg trying to insert link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Longview News-Journal from Longview, Texas April 9, 1964 page 5 https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/186118616/ Crichton Blasts 'Police Power Bill During Visit Gets Award attributed widely to the oil and gas publications. Gov. George C. Wallace's heavy vote in the Wisconsin primary Tuesday showed that the people in the North as well as FORT WORTH ... Crichton of Dallas, unopposed candidate for governor, declared Shreveport. He is a committee chairman in the Dallas County Civil defense set up and holds - - publican leaders and others. Crichton said, ' He has been active in Republican circles in Dallas many years, and he occupies downtown offices as an Independent oil executive, and engineer. Crichton was educated at Byrd High School, Shreveport, and was awarded various petroleum and engineering degrees from Wichita Institute of Technology and SMU. His career as a geologist and engineer was interrupted by World War II, in which he served as a field artillery intelligence officer and special agent of the OSS. Now with the rank of colonel, he is commanding officer of the 488th Military Intelligence Detachment, U. S. Army Reserve. Lubbock Avalanche-Journal from Lubbock, Texas · December 5, 1967 Page 16https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/6092576/ What little is in that abstract reads: DALLAS (API — Col. Jack A.:, Crichton. commanding officer of) the 488th Military Intelligence Detachment, was awarded the Legion of Merit Monday night on' his retirement from the Army- Reserve after 30 years of service. The medal was presented in a ceremony by Col. Robert D. Of-; fer, commander of the VIII U.S. , Army Corps at Austin. An oil man and petroleum consultant, Crichton organized his Reserve unit in 1956 and has been its only commander. The award cited him for "exceptionally outstanding service" as commander and for the preparation of a series of military intelligence studies. (the name of the awarding colonel is garbled in the OCR rendering). Crichton also wrote a book entitled, The Republican-Democrat political campaigns in Texas in 1964 Author: Jack Crichton Publisher: [Texas] : J. Crichton, 2003. Edition/Format: Print book : English Database: WorldCat https://www.worldcat.org/search?q=au%3ACrichton%2C+Jack.&qt=hot_author Someday, I would like to read this book. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. A. Copeland Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 On 3/17/2019 at 2:37 PM, Steve Thomas said: Longview News-Journal from Longview, Texas April 9, 1964 page 5 https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/186118616/ Crichton Blasts 'Police Power Bill During Visit Gets Award attributed widely to the oil and gas publications. Gov. George C. Wallace's heavy vote in the Wisconsin primary Tuesday showed that the people in the North as well as FORT WORTH ... Crichton of Dallas, unopposed candidate for governor, declared Shreveport. He is a committee chairman in the Dallas County Civil defense set up and holds - - publican leaders and others. Crichton said, ' He has been active in Republican circles in Dallas many years, and he occupies downtown offices as an Independent oil executive, and engineer. Crichton was educated at Byrd High School, Shreveport, and was awarded various petroleum and engineering degrees from Wichita Institute of Technology and SMU. His career as a geologist and engineer was interrupted by World War II, in which he served as a field artillery intelligence officer and special agent of the OSS. Now with the rank of colonel, he is commanding officer of the 488th Military Intelligence Detachment, U. S. Army Reserve. Lubbock Avalanche-Journal from Lubbock, Texas · December 5, 1967 Page 16https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/6092576/ What little is in that abstract reads: DALLAS (API — Col. Jack A.:, Crichton. commanding officer of) the 488th Military Intelligence Detachment, was awarded the Legion of Merit Monday night on' his retirement from the Army- Reserve after 30 years of service. The medal was presented in a ceremony by Col. Robert D. Of-; fer, commander of the VIII U.S. , Army Corps at Austin. An oil man and petroleum consultant, Crichton organized his Reserve unit in 1956 and has been its only commander. The award cited him for "exceptionally outstanding service" as commander and for the preparation of a series of military intelligence studies. (the name of the awarding colonel is garbled in the OCR rendering). Crichton also wrote a book entitled, The Republican-Democrat political campaigns in Texas in 1964 Author: Jack Crichton Publisher: [Texas] : J. Crichton, 2003. Edition/Format: Print book : English Database: WorldCat https://www.worldcat.org/search?q=au%3ACrichton%2C+Jack.&qt=hot_author Someday, I would like to read this book. Steve Thomas I 2nd this, wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 10 hours ago, B. A. Copeland said: I 2nd this, wow. B.A., The one thing I would caution about is that these newspapers are reading like a press release from somebody. For instance: Longview Texas. April 9, 1964: " Now with the rank of colonel, he is commanding officer of the 488th Military Intelligence Detachment, U. S. Army Reserve." Bryan, Texas. October 15, 1964: (Crichton) “is now Colonel and commanding officer 488th Military Intelligence Department, US Army Reserve”. The articles are six months apart, yet the wording is almost exactly the same. Are they coming from the same source? Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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