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Cliff Varnell

Beto's Bobby Vibe

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51 minutes ago, Paz Marverde said:

Even as WP?

Gotta be 35 by Inauguration Day, both President and Vice Prez.

She could run in 2024.

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7 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Gotta be 35 by Inauguration Day, both President and Vice Prez.

She could run in 2024.

Thank you, Cliff. Really kind 

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Posted (edited)

O'Rourke's mother is a stepdaughter of Fred Korth, a member of LBJ's Texas machine

(including during the time of the stolen 1948 US Senate election) as well as a leading

figure in the military-industrial complex, a Vietnam War profiteer, and the disgraced center of the TFX scandal. When I pointed

this out, I got some flak from people who apparently don't want to know the backgrounds

of potential presidents they might want to vote for. We saw how that worked out with the Bush family. Most Americans

still don't know most of their actual background, which includes two U.S. presidents (Poppy Bush of the CIA and Franklin Pierce) and one unelected usurper who occupied the White House for eight years.

Edited by Joseph McBride

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32 minutes ago, Joseph McBride said:

O'Rourke's mother is a stepdaughter of Fred Korth, a member of LBJ's Texas machine

(including during the time of the stolen 1948 US Senate election) as well as a leading

figure in the military-industrial complex, a Vietnam War profiteer, and the disgraced center of the TFX scandal. When I pointed

this out, I got some flak from people who apparently don't want to know the backgrounds

of potential presidents they might want to vote for. We saw how that worked out with the Bush family. Most Americans

still don't know most of their actual background, which includes two U.S. presidents (Poppy Bush of the CIA and Franklin Pierce) and one unelected usurper who occupied the White House for eight years.

I think this kind of stuff needs to be weighed what it's worth.

Joe Kennedy wasn't shady?

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I agree this needs to be weighed. And that Joe Kennedy was shady.

We need to know the social backgrounds and contexts from

which potential presidents emerge. Some escape the negative

aspects of their backgrounds; some do not. But if we don't know

these people's histories, we are in for continuing unpleasant shocks. 

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This idea, that Joe Kennedy was somehow compromised and/or in bed with the Mob and was a bootlegger is going to be examined by me in my upcoming review of Mark Shaw's very disappointing book, Denial of Justice.

Shaw, in that book, refers to another previous work of his, The Poison Patriarch. 

Since he referred to it so strongly and often I had to read it.  Its one of the worst books I have ever read in the field.  Which is saying something after Waldron and Hartmann, Kaiser  and Caufield.

I believe that upon examination, which virtually no one has done, this whole Joe Kennedy burn will turn out to be as mythological as the  Kennedys tried to kill Castro BS.  Which has now been leveled by the combination left hook and right cross of Lisa Pease and John Newman.

Too often, in this put upon and self reinforcing community, we tend to accept things from those who do not deserve to be trusted, without examining the evidence quantitatively and qualitatively.  And then looking at the bona fides of those putting forth the false narratives.

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6 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

This idea, that Joe Kennedy was somehow compromised and/or in bed with the Mob and was a bootlegger is going to be examined by me in my upcoming review of Mark Shaw's very disappointing book, Denial of Justice.

Shaw, in that book, refers to another previous work of his, The Poison Patriarch. 

Since he referred to it so strongly and often I had to read it.  Its one of the worst books I have ever read in the field.  Which is saying something after Waldron and Hartmann, Kaiser  and Caufield.

I believe that upon examination, which virtually no one has done, this whole Joe Kennedy burn will turn out to be as mythological as the  Kennedys tried to kill Castro BS.  Which has now been leveled by the combination left hook and right cross of Lisa Pease and John Newman.

Too often, in this put upon and self reinforcing community, we tend to accept things from those who do not deserve to be trusted, without examining the evidence quantitatively and qualitatively.  And then looking at the bona fides of those putting forth the false narratives.

I just bought both of his books on Dorthy Killgallen. Is The Reporter Who Knew Too Much worth the read or will it be a waste of time? Was looking forward to reading them after listening to a few interviews with Shaw.

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On 3/16/2019 at 3:35 AM, Cliff Varnell said:

I think this kind of stuff needs to be weighed what it's worth.

Joe Kennedy wasn't shady?

JMO but I think Joe Kennedy May not have been as shady as some have led us (me for sure) to believe in the past.  I base this primarily on RFK Jr's book last year, American Values.  I realize RFK Jr has a family insiders viewpoint.  But that should also give him a unique perspective on the subject.  He is the first in the family to come forward and publicly acknowledge that the does not believe the official stories of his Uncle or Fathers deaths.  If I remember right he posits his grandfather was not a bootlegger, indebted to or in bed with the mob to sway JFK's election, nor was he a supporter of Hitler or the Nazi's.  He does put forth that much of these accusations were put forth by CIA agent Sam Halpern.  Who he says Richard Helms ordered to besmirch the Kennedy name, which he seems to have made a life long mission.  I should have re read a bit before posting, but FWIW.

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Posted (edited)

To respond to John:

Shaw's first book is worth reading since he concentrates on Kilgallen and does not push his personal agenda all that much.  His second book is definitely not worth reading since its mostly a rehash of the first book, and he fills up  many pages with his Mob did it ideas, which I will dissect in detail in my review of that volume.  In that book, what he has that is new on the Kilgallen case he could have posted on his web site as a long essay of maybe 40 pages.

 

To Ron:

What multi millionaire businessman is simon pure?  None that I can think of.  Carnegie spent the last years of his life expiating his sins by setting up public libraries.

But the idea that Joe Kennedy did the things that Chuck Giancana, Frank Ragano and Mark Shaw say he did is nothing but apocryphal, and its from let us say, questionable sources.  And it does not jibe with the actual record which I will adduce and do a comparative analysis with.  I was really surprised that John Newman fell for the Chuck Giancana crap in his second volume.  My God, he even fell for Exner, who I skewered two decades ago. So now I have to do this again.  

Had to go to three libraries to get the materials.  Even got  a ticket at UCLA.  But its deductible.

Edited by James DiEugenio

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Posted (edited)

Joe Kennedy's record as a businessman remains a matter of some dispute and

suffers from ambiguity and/or a lack of full information on some areas (e.g., the claims of bootlegging,

which are distinct from his record as a legal importer of liquor).

Richard J. Whalen's biography THE FOUNDING FATHER paints a convincing

picture of a ruthless businessman who at the very least cut ethical and legal corners; he

did have positive qualities, such as his early backing of the film

business (the first Kennedy book is a collection of pieces

about a serious conference on films he sponsored at Harvard in the 1920s). JPK was well-known as a major manipulator of the stock market (not necessarily criminal) to

the extent that FDR appointed him the first SEC commissioner because he knew

how all the levers were pulled; he did an exemplary job in that position, much to many people's surprise.

But JPK's record appeasing the Nazis and defeatism about England's chances of winning

the war is abundant and shameful. Anyone who tries to deny it is shutting his eyes

to the indisputable record. It was a source of great friction with the British and with FDR, who finally

eased him out of his position as ambassador to the Court of St. James's, where he

was causing great damage to the relationship and the war effort. His sons had

to live that down, which caused them a lot of problems. JPK remained embittered and, according to Truman, referred

to FDR as "that crippled son of a bitch who killed my boy Joe." JPK's record of

funneling great sums of money into JFK's campaign for president in the primaries

(especially West Virginia) was so blatant and dubious 

and well-known that JFK had to publicly joke about it to defuse the issue

(as he so adroitly could do with sensitive issues; e.g., his quip to reporter

May Craig's demand about why he wasn't doing more for women's issues). JFK had to carefully

keep his father at arm's length during the fall campaign and his presidency,

though he still took some of his father's advice behind the scenes. JPK

was also a big defender of Joe McCarthy, another albatross JFK had to deal

with; that family friendship and his father's rightwing McCarthyite views caused JFK great

difficulties with Eleanor Roosevelt (for example), which he had to defuse

to get the nomination. So let's not whitewash old Joe. Or indulge in Kennedy

family hagiography at the expense of the more complex historical record.

Edited by Joseph McBride

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JPK felt that Communism was more threatening than Nazism?

Hitler's agenda was to hopefully get rid of Russian Communism once and for all. 

Hence, JPK's lean toward appeasement?

And his support of Joe McCarthy?

Seems this was a shared sentiment among many of our wealthiest class at that time who felt the same way.

Sorry, but history has shown us that many super wealthy people would side with the devil to protect and increase their wealth.

Wonder if Hitler's genocide against the Jews was another issue that JPK was less than outraged about as much as true humanitarian justice would demand?

Have no research knowledge at all on this last subject.   Just curious.

 

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I'm not sure which book is considered the original one here, but I read The Reporter Who Knew Too Much by Mark Shaw.  I didn't think it gave anything new that couldn't be located elsewhere.

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