Jump to content
The Education Forum
Rich Pope

Number of shots

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Robert Card said:

It's going to wreck the thread, which is his goal. 

You're funny. Why on Earth would I have a "goal" to "wreck" any thread here?

 

Edited by David Von Pein

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

You're funny. Why on Earth would I have a "goal" to "wreck" any thread here?

 

Because it's a good tactic, and it works very well for your side, just take a look at the Mexico City thread going on for the past few days.  Once a thread 'goes bad', and only two people are left arguing, that's the end of the thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Dallas motorcycle cop, James Chaney was not questioned by the FBI, or called before the WC.   Chaney was the closest law enforcement officer to JFK at the time of the shooting.   He was questioned by the FBI about his meeting with Jack Ruby on Nov 23, but nothing about the shooting.  He eventually was questioned in 1975.   Being that Chaney had an excellent view of the victim, and he was law enforcement, why do you think Chaney was never questioned or called before the WC?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Robert Card said:

Dallas motorcycle cop, James Chaney was not questioned by the FBI, or called before the WC.   Chaney was the closest law enforcement officer to JFK at the time of the shooting.   He was questioned by the FBI about his meeting with Jack Ruby on Nov 23, but nothing about the shooting.  He eventually was questioned in 1975.   Being that Chaney had an excellent view of the victim, and he was law enforcement, why do you think Chaney was never questioned or called before the WC?

Robert,

When single-bullet theory supporters claim that most people in Dealey Plaza heard three shots and that they came from the Book Depository, they're including witnesses such as JFK's two closest aides, Dave Powers and Kenny O'Donnell, both riding in the limousine behind JFK's, who, at first testified that two shots came from the right front of the motorcade-the area of the "grassy knoll" with its picket fence but later admitted they were pressured to change their testimony by the FBI.  Author Henry Hunt discovered in 1986 that at least 60 witnesses claimed the FBI altered what they had reported.  In other words, the FBI just changed reported testimony just to make their single-bullet theory work.   Many more such claims have emerged since then and this has been well documented.  So these silly graphs posted by David have ZERO value.   There's a difference between misinformation and disinformation.  David practices the art of disinformation.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Robert Card said:

Being that Chaney had an excellent view of the victim, and he was law enforcement, why do you think Chaney was never questioned or called before the WC?

I can't answer that question. Nor can you.

But if you think the reason was because Chaney would have testified to things the WC just didn't want to hear, that reason is just so silly, since the Warren Commission called MANY other witnesses who testified to things that could lead to a conclusion of "conspiracy". E.G., the witnesses I mentioned in this 2014 exchange with conspiracy theorist and Education Forum veteran Ray Mitcham....

RAY MITCHAM SAID:
I can see why the Warren Commission didn't want them [Bill and Gayle Newman] to be interviewed.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Yeah, right Ray. They avoided the Newmans, but had no problem publishing the testimony of Sam Holland, Mark Lane, Jean Hill, Jack Dougherty, Victoria Adams, Clint Hill, Marguerite Oswald, and several other "conspiracy" type witnesses. But they were just scared to death of Bill and Gayle Newman, huh?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Rich Pope said:

Um...it was Moses who had the burning bush experience, not Isaiah.  

So true, Rich.  Thanks for catching that.  It was Moses's experience in the second book of the OT, Exodus 3: 1-12.  The same lines are referred to IN Isaiah and Psalms.  I kind of have a special beef with Isaiah, that Screaming Mimi, who has "the lion laying down with the lamb" and all that impossible garbahj.  I think it preps the sheeple to be easy pickings.  But that's neither here nor there.  It's just the only excuse I can think of at the moment.

One of my best friends, a Texan, a Lubbocker, studies religion and history as the key to everything.  Once he found out a few basic facts about JFKA like the blowout in the back of the head, the throat entry shot etc., he thought it was boring to go much further.  "Obvious coup d'etat, like so many others in history," he says.  "The rest is just getting bogged down in the weeds."

BTW, this is neither here nor there either, but Texas (as we fondly call him when we want to get his goat a little) turned me on to this guy named Josephus.  Circa 70 CE, he was the Roman Jew, a favorite of the court, who led the committee that put together the New Testament out of all the disparate early Christian writings.  There was most likely no one historical Jesus; there were many that came out of the Jewish revolts, starting around 40 BCE after the assassinations of the Gracchi brothers and Julius Caesar.  That's when Rome became an unbearable tyrant.  Then, around 70 CE the good emperors Vespasian, Trajan, et al. came forth from the people and ushered in a new Golden Age.  Right about the same time the New Testament was compiled in Koine Greek, the universal language at the time.

What's my point?  The Gracchi brothers and Julius were carbon copies of the Kennedys and King (they were4 the people), and when they were assassinated, it led to bedlam, chaos.  IMHO we are still waiting for the movement that elevates the new Vespasian and Trajan.  This may sound off, weird, but sometimes I feel like calling Chris Davidson and David Josephs, Josephus.  Cool, yet colorful, and above the fray.  So sue me, someone, anyone.

Edited by Roy Wieselquist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Rich Pope said:

So these silly graphs posted by David have ZERO value.   There's a difference between misinformation and disinformation.  David practices the art of disinformation.  

You need to look at the underlying data that John McAdams has relied on to arrive at the figures seen in his pie charts....

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/earwitnesses.htm

McAdams doesn't include Dave Powers as a "Depository" earwitness at all. McAdams has Powers in the "Not Sure" category.

And, yes, McAdams does list Ken O'Donnell in the "TSBD" category, but I think it's interesting to note that among the other authors and researchers that McAdams has listed in his comparison chart above (two of which are noted CTers), only one of those researchers lists O'Donnell as a "Knoll" earwitness. Even long-time veteran conspiracy advocate Josiah Thompson said that O'Donnell heard the shots come from his "Right Rear".

 

Edited by David Von Pein

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Robert Card said:

I've always felt that the shots that hit Gov Connally were a mistake.  If he was meant to be hit, he would've been hit for good.  Just my opinion, though.

Above from R Card was in response to R Pope asking, "Were the shots that hit Connally meant for JFK?"  (I don't know how to double-quote.)

NO, the two shots that hit JBC were not mistakes.  It would take me too long to explain it fully, but in brief:

-- Ozzie the Wiz had figured out the plot.  AND he hated JBC with the most purple of passions, for many reasons.  I believe it was Rich Pope who noted that page 17 of LO's address book had the four men he hated the most, and at the head of that list, with a red dagger with blood dripping off it, was JBC.  Incidentally, that page went missing, just like the Harper fragment, the Hosty note, and over 100 other pieces of material evidence.  Which doubly shows how much the Kennedy-haters feared it.  AND he knew JBC had to be crucial to the plot.  Which just poured more gasoline on Ozzie's fire.

-- Mac Wallace, LBJ's personal murderer-for-hire, and Oz became quick friends not long before the coup.  With Loy Factor in tow, MW found out Oz was wise to the plot, and said to him, "We can foil it from the very building that you have found yourself employed in."  Ozzie, dubious, said, "Uh, OK."  These may not be exact quotations.

-- SO, by 12:30, ensconced on the sixth floor:  MW in the far southeast window ("sniper's nest"), LF in the far southwest window, and the Wiz most likely two windows east of LF.  Ozzie sees, early, that the fascist basta*ds are gonna pull it off, but he's ready with his fallback plan: pop Johnny Con.  The Carcano shot high and to the right, explaining JBC's wounds.  BTW, the ding in the chrome ashtray that hangs on the back of the front seat is highly neglected.  You can tell by the angle of JBC's wounds that the two shots came from the western end of TSBD, not the east end.  Ozzie's third shot hit the chrome around the windshield, broke in two, and one piece dinged the front side of the rearview mirror and cracked the windshield itself.  The pieces found in the front compartment of the limo came from the Carcano, and they didn't have blood or flesh on them.  That was the only true bullet evidence that made it to the end.

 

 There's more, a lot more, but you guys figure it out.  Neither of the shots that hit JBC was a mistake.  None of the three shots that hit JFK, two from front left and one from front right, was a mistake.  Well, that first shot that hit him in the throat (and out the back) from South Knoll was intended for the head, but...you know, the plans of mice and men often go awry.

 

So, again, six shots hit in the limo and at least three missed the limo, for a total of at least NINE shots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Tom Neal said:

It appears you are presenting "French Corsicans on the South Knoll" and a "special rifle" as established facts. Is that your intention?

Da.  Oui. Ja.  Si.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Robert Card said:

21 shots fired, but I only hear 3.  How many do you hear, David?  Start at 1:00 if it doesn't do it automatically.

 

 

Robert,

Too perfect.  How many shots do you HEAR, David?  That's one of the PHONY effects of firing in fusillades.  Which was a big part of the plan all along.  Any number of shots will sound like ONE to the EARwitnesses.  And that doesn't even get into muffled shots.  But if someone SAYS he didn't HEAR a shot, that means it didn't exist, right?   Because another David, Hume, ..... Even though there's all kinds of OTHER physical evidence known by the senses.

Next time Von Pein brings up how many shots witnesses SAID they HEARD, here are a few alternative rejoinders:

--  David, how many shots did they DREAM they SAW?

-- DVP, how many shots did they THINK they SMELLED?

-- Herr Von Pein, how many shots did they FEEL they TASTED?

-- Monsieur VP, how many shots did they GUESS they FELT?

 

When there's so much physical evidence for all kinds of shots, yeah, let's divert from that with a phony ONE aspect.  These folks, all happy at a parade, the last thing they ever expected... but that's the only admissible evidence?!  No, that's such a minor part of the evidence that it is almost not evidence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Ahhh, what a perfect excuse for conspiracy theorists!! They theorize that there was a series of perfectly synchronized rifle shots in Dealey Plaza, masking the sound of many of the blasts. And, remember, there were "at least a dozen shots", per Geoff Heinricks' analysis. And, somehow, all those shots were whittled down to just THREE audible shots being heard by the vast majority of witnesses in the Plaza. That was some fantastic job of coordination on the part of those highly-skilled gunmen, wasn't it?

And it's just a coincidence, I guess, that exactly THREE shell casings were found on the sixth floor of the TSBD, eh? (All planted, I suppose.)

And I suppose it's also just a coincidence that the Zapruder Film shows ONLY the right-frontal portion of JFK's head exploding, with NO wound whatsoever visible in the right-rear of his head---even though, per almost all CTers, that right-rear part of his head was blasted out by the gunshot fired by one of those stealth-like gunmen situated on the Grassy Knoll. And there's not even a hint of redness in the right-rear of Kennedy's head in the Z-Film either. The right-rear of his head is totally injury-free. (Probably just a fake film with a "black patch" inserted over the real wound, right?)

~sigh~

Edited by David Von Pein

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about 63 shots.  It was 1963.  Is that too crazy enough of a CIA suggested Conspiracy Theory to accept?  They wrote the book back how to characterize US back in 67.

I personally believe in the possibility of 6-7-8 shots.  But I could be wrong, again.  Maybe there were even more as has been proposed by some in the past.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Roy Wieselquist said:

So true, Rich.  Thanks for catching that.  It was Moses's experience in the second book of the OT, Exodus 3: 1-12.  The same lines are referred to IN Isaiah and Psalms.  I kind of have a special beef with Isaiah, that Screaming Mimi, who has "the lion laying down with the lamb" and all that impossible garbahj.  I think it preps the sheeple to be easy pickings.  But that's neither here nor there.  It's just the only excuse I can think of at the moment.

One of my best friends, a Texan, a Lubbocker, studies religion and history as the key to everything.  Once he found out a few basic facts about JFKA like the blowout in the back of the head, the throat entry shot etc., he thought it was boring to go much further.  "Obvious coup d'etat, like so many others in history," he says.  "The rest is just getting bogged down in the weeds."

BTW, this is neither here nor there either, but Texas (as we fondly call him when we want to get his goat a little) turned me on to this guy named Josephus.  Circa 70 CE, he was the Roman Jew, a favorite of the court, who led the committee that put together the New Testament out of all the disparate early Christian writings.  There was most likely no one historical Jesus; there were many that came out of the Jewish revolts, starting around 40 BCE after the assassinations of the Gracchi brothers and Julius Caesar.  That's when Rome became an unbearable tyrant.  Then, around 70 CE the good emperors Vespasian, Trajan, et al. came forth from the people and ushered in a new Golden Age.  Right about the same time the New Testament was compiled in Koine Greek, the universal language at the time.

What's my point?  The Gracchi brothers and Julius were carbon copies of the Kennedys and King (they were4 the people), and when they were assassinated, it led to bedlam, chaos.  IMHO we are still waiting for the movement that elevates the new Vespasian and Trajan.  This may sound off, weird, but sometimes I feel like calling Chris Davidson and David Josephs, Josephus.  Cool, yet colorful, and above the fray.  So sue me, someone, anyone.

Roy,

The lion may lay down with the lamb, but the lamb isn't getting any sleep.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

McAdams doesn't include Dave Powers as a "Depository" earwitness at all. McAdams has Powers in the "Not Sure" category.

Addendum....

I also just noticed that John McAdams has both Bill Newman and Gayle Newman listed as "Knoll" witnesses under the "McAdams" column on his "Earwitness Tabulation" page, which I don't think is correct at all (particularly when it comes to Bill Newman's statements specifically). In my opinion, Bill Newman shouldn't be categorized as either a "Knoll" witness or a "TSBD" witness. CLICK HERE to see why I say that.

 

Edited by David Von Pein

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×