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Rich Pope

Number of shots

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Should have added that the only shooting involving multiple shots to the head I investigated where the face was somewhat intact was with a M-1 carbine with military  fmj ammo I freely admit that if we're not careful we can become victims of our experience.

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23 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Welcome to the forum Geoff.  Thanks for the link.  Specifically David Josephs post and link in it.  I'd never heard of a De Lisle carbine.  Potentially a very useful weapon in the JFK assassination.  Especially if one considers any shots from a Mauser or Manlicher Carcano from the TSBD a distraction from other shooters in other locations.  Amazing weapon.  Thanks once again David J too.

 

I still can't get over this weapon.  Only a couple of hundred made in WWII for special operations, other than those handcrafted by gunsmiths afterward.  I.E. yes, the CIA would have had it or something like it in it's arsenal in 1963, maybe even scoped?

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I don't now the current opinion of Gordon Arnold's stories, and the whole 'badgeman' thing...but when I first learned of the existence of the De Lisle, and remembered Arnold's description of the weapon he saw...plus the rumoured .45 slugs recovered in Dealey...it raised an eyebrow.

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On 12/15/2018 at 7:40 PM, Evan Marshall said:

Should have added that the only shooting involving multiple shots to the head I investigated where the face was somewhat intact was with a M-1 carbine with military  fmj ammo I freely admit that if we're not careful we can become victims of our experience.

Evan,

Please stop making me correct your simpleminded musings.

IF JFK were hit from the front right just behind the right temple AND hit from the front left forward of the left temple just in the hairline (and it blew out the right occiput), how in the world by all the laws of physics would that have messed up his face?

Sure, if he were shot in the back of the head even once let alone twice, you'd expect a non-intact face.  As the Willis girls have protested over the years.  You may be incapable of making simple distinctions, Evan.  There are many factors involved, more than "multiple shots to the head."  There are vertical and horizontal angles, and most importantly, there is location of entry and exit or lack of exit.

I feel obligated to post this because a casual viewer may be misled.

No mas, bro.  Or at least start thinking along the lines of "monocausality is rare in human events."  I have other things to do than be your babysitter.

And please don't repeat for the umpteenth time that you were a supper cop.  We heard you the first ten or twenty times.  That may have been the only true thing out of you on these recent topics.  AND IT IS COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.

Edited by Roy Wieselquist
errors

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Hey Rich Pope,

This is your thread.  I suggest you come on and request that anyone responding to this topic answer the question "Number of shots."

I say six hit in the limo.  Three hit JFK.  Two hit JBC.  One hit no human.

An absolute minimum of three missed the limo.  (BTW the shot that hit in front of Jean Hill's feet is woefully neglected.  It may have gone on to hit in front of the manhole cover or gone on to strike the curb beside James Tague, depending on the direction it came from.)

There was the early shot that hit the street while the limo made the turn onto Elm.  Y'know it was lucky that the adrenaline-pumped Greer almost hit the curb opposite and had to jerk it back onto the main road.

Well, there were as many as five limo-missing shots.  That makes a total of 9 to 11.  I'm tired of being the only one who lays my cards on the table in some of these threads.

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On 12/15/2018 at 7:40 PM, Evan Marshall said:

 I freely admit that if we're not careful we can become victims of our experience.

Oh Evvie, you innocent naif,

Who exactly are you advising to be careful lest they become victims?

Honey pie, I hope you are not mistaking me for one of those nice guys who is also a doormat.  Oh I wish I could tell you of my "experience" in that regard.

I would like an explanation for what your statement means.  It's very cryptic, as is your post at the bottom of the previous page.

I don't have the time, but now I have to learn how to alert admin.

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Oh my goodness, Evan:

I googled Evan Marshall Detroit Police, and one shows up who is a "best selling author" of all these gun books.  But you can't write a sentence that doesn't have several errors.  Are your books ghostwritten like Trump's?  Are you that same EM?

Also, that EM is or was an owner or operator of a gun store.  Is that you?  Are you one of these gun fetishizers who.....?  I've had experience with your kind, brother.  George Harrison said it best, "If every gun owner were to shoot only himself, there wouldn't be a problem."

I will next respond to your erroneous post at the bottom of page 2.  I can't go anywhere for a day without a pile of your dreck building up.

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On 12/15/2018 at 7:33 PM, Evan Marshall said:

Threats? People can't disagree with you without it being considered a threat.

Me, Roy W., your sweetie, Evvie dear: You well know it was not "people" (you) disagreeing with me that made me complain to you.  If you don't understand English, this may be too much for you.  You calling me a "keyboard commando" right off the bat, and in comparison to your big bad shooting a bunch of boom-sticks, is irrelevant at best, snotty and insulting at worst.

I find David Manticks [sic: this guy you find compelling is "Mantik" and the possessive, except with personal pronouns, takes an apostrophe, if that's what you were trying to say] discussion of how many shots is rather compelling and, of, course, push Oswald out of the arena.

Please, Evan, tell us Mantik's ideas about this, the topic of this thread.  BTW, I love David Mantik, have listened to hours of his videos, more than once.

Never been in the military though trained with a number folks from the black side of spec ops.

You were claiming I had no experience or knowledge of suppressed weapon. RW: Very completely false.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  Do you know how to use the quote button on these posts?  It's right at the bottom of each post.  In the future, simply use my own words to show how I claimed you "had [sic again, man.  Learn English.  It's "have" unless you're dead, or...one can only imagine]  When I worked for Israel military Industries I fired a wide variety of suppressed weapons in Israel And at NNSA I fired a number of suppressed weapon in 5.56, 7.62, and .338 Lapua thought the Lapua suppressor was short lived and not very effective. RW: Evan, you might have accidentally said something relevant with that 5.56 mm above.  That's about the bore I figure for the South Knoll gunman, in the .223 caliber range.  Easily made supersonic, easy (relatively) to muffle the noise.

RW:  You claim (and/or claimed) to know that scum Mitch WerBell well.  And now you're sounding like you were in with the neo-Nazi Zionists.  Is that what I'm seeing?  Did you help the South African apartheid too?

 

Edited by Roy Wieselquist

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How many fatal shootings with a rifle have you investigated and how many  autopsies have you attended featuring rifle wounds? . Autopsies are the real world, sonny.  And while you were playing  key board commando I was getting my hands bloody in Detroit.

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6 hours ago, Evan Marshall said:

How many fatal shootings with a rifle have you investigated and how many  autopsies have you attended featuring rifle wounds? . Autopsies are the real world, sonny.  And while you were playing  key board commando I was getting my hands bloody in Detroit.

EM,

I don't have time or inclination to give you my full bio (not as simple as yours), but in partial answer to your nosy, irrelevant, idiotic, insulting, irrelevant questions:

A (fatal shootings...investigated)

* have investigated dozens, maybe scores, which fall into two main categories

1. animals -- fox, rabbit, squirrel, deer, duck, geese:

quick snippet:1973-4, when I was between colleges and running a roofing company with three other yahoos (by the way, creampuff, I started roofing summers at age 12.  With the MEN, which is nothing you need to worry your pretty little head about, darling), if we finished a job early in the day (which we loved to do), we'd go fishing and/or hunting.  A few farmers had a problem with the foxes mixing with their chickens, which never works out for those noble hens.  They offered a good bounty at the time to the young blokes they liked, who were us.  $10 for a vixen (cuz they have the babies) $5 for whatever an adult male is called.  Nearly every afternoon that we went after fox and squirrel, I went away with the most money and meat.  BTW the best meat, except Chesapeake Bay duck and goose, is squirrel that have been eating acorns.

I felt so bad after investigating a fox I'd just shot in the face (yeah, the face was messed up real bad, Evvie-poo) with a 16 gauge (oh, that's a shotgun.  Admissable, your honor, your royal highness?) who was about to drop a litter, that I couldn't do it again.  Stuck to critters I could eat after that.

Another funny story: when I lived almost ON the Chesapeake Bay (greatest body of water in the world for meat and seafood production), I almost always had free bird.  I didn't shoot many of them.  It was that all the guys I knew had more duck and goose than they felt like dressing sometimes.  (Don't be confused E MARSHAll.  Dressing poultry is not putting clothes on them.  It's de-feathering, gutting, preparing for the oven.)  "Give it to LeeRoy.  He can clean a bird in his sleep."  And I thoroughly investigated every one, if only (to try) to get the shot out before cooking.

 

2. human shootings, inc. autopsies

I got lucky before I went to a college in Maryland in the mid 70s, and worked as an orderly in a hospital for a year.  I was pre-med at the first college I attended and, as some of the doctors got to know me, they were rather petulant that I return to that line of study.  (I blame women for my lack of total commitment to that demanding mistress, Medical Science.  But if you had seen the women of that time, born between 1952 and 1958, you may understand.  Not you, Evelyn, but certainly Joe Bauer and Ron Bullman.  There never have been, and there never will be again, women as healthy and good-looking as the women born in those six years.  And they were everywhere.)

Anyway, I saw a few operations and one autopsy, which is probably verboten today.  Autopsies not my cuppa, I admit.  Not the fear of blood and guts; it's the fear of being disrespectful, even inadvertantly, to a body that can't defend itself.  Weird, huh?  Part of the orderly job was to bring bodies to the morgue.  And I worked sometimes in the ER, where I saw a few gunshot wounds.  I investigated them all better than your lifetime investigation of your own work-allergic belly-button. 

Well this is running on.  Another point that you are blissfully unaware of, you sheltered, lovable child EM: you don't have to be hit by a Mack truck to know it's traumatic.  You don't have to see the results of it either, which I did, to know.

Your experience at depressing the trigger of a chickencrap firearm does not make you all big and bad; quite the opposite, it means you were and are too lazy and chicken to work a real job.

 

For your next post in this thread, princess, try to come off your throne for one brief shining moment and throw us a little bone.  With all your expertise that no one else has, PLEASE, just one word or number on the topic NUMBER OF SHOTS.  Frinstance 2 or 5 or 17 or a range 3-5, anything.  You really may know something that someone here cares about.  C'mon, you can do it.

Evan darling, you calling me, your huckleberry homeboy, "sonny", that's my personal motivation to seek legal advice.  The only man who can call me sonny is ten years older than you.  He made and still makes important contributions to this old world, especially to the humans you love to sneer at.  Engineer, architect, welder, builder, factory-wright.

I have a ton of legal motivation to seek legal advice.  Above is the second time you've given me that phony tough-guy coinage, "keyboard commando".  You poor child,  I used computers in jobs in the 90s, didn't get one of my own until 2008, I think.  I was probably one of the last of my generation to get one and get on the internet.  My children, now in their 30s, forced it on me, and I'm glad they did.  I may be the most Luddite, least tech savvy of anyone I know, including elementary school children.  Sure, I'm a heck of a typist; it was a major competition the semester I took it in high school.  But as late as 2008, I was saying anything worth it is in a book, and anything I need to type I have my Underwood, and I did use it.  Made it sing regularly, typed papers as a sideline in college all three times I went.

This earlier statement of yours may be the one to cost you some money:  "I freely [not slaverishly?] admit [very big of you] that if we [as in you and me, buddy b.?] 're not careful [ big problem there, what is it, Evan?] we [again that unclear antecedent] can become victims [if we get together sometime, I will show and tell YOU about victims***] of our [again, you and me, bro-sky?] own experience [WTFudge?!].  ***OK, since you're a pal in need of help, one quick vignette.  During a high school basketball game, a guy who thought he was all big and bad tripped me from BEHIND [the worst IMHO, like your Zion buddies do the defenseless Palestinian children] and I flipped him on his head and side, gave him a concussion and a broken arm.  I got up like "What just happened?  Why's that guy on the floor screaming?"  Oh, one more thing, about guns.  Guys who threaten me with talk of guns, I encourage them, please, bring them to me and I will kick them up your chickencrap poopchute and make you pull the chickencrap trigger and...

And there's been a lot more from you that I believe is legally actionable.  It was that "sonny" that could cost you because that is pushing me to pursue this; besides, you may need help, may be a danger to those who are unfortunately around you.  As soon as possible, I will take time out of my busy, backbreaking schedule to consult everyone I know who is expert about this type of problem.

PS: If you want to call someone a K. C. how about that guy above, Jake Hammond.  137 posts in 5 days, must be a record.  I had 80 in 3 years until a few weeks ago.

PPS:  Aw shucks, evvie hon, I didn't get to tell you about all my experience with the guns of my father, who is not you.  Carcano, I did experiments with it.  Boy, he has the sweetest 7.65 Mauser I ever saw.  Cyrillic lettering on it, Czech.  Heavy, you probably couldn't carry it ten feet without dropping it.  Or hurting yourself or those around you.

PPS:  That bit about you getting your hands bloody (with someone else's blood, big hero you) was NOT while I was playing keyboard commando (that second time may cost you and, again, I did not become your execrable, idiotic phony-military misconception that you call "keyboard commando" until recently).  It was while I was building houses for the goodly creatures, and some for people like you.  We all make mistakes.  Only God is perfect.

Edited by Roy Wieselquist
to convince EM to be a mensch

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My information says that four guns had silencers.  Two .38 caliber pistols, and two rifles.  Johnny Rosselli said there was a guy in the storm drain with one of the .38's.

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From The Wire: "Ayo, lesson here, Bey. You come at the king, you best not miss."

All stops were pulled. We'll never know the true mechanical picture, apart from the glimpses we have at this point. But the point was to have everyone picking pepper out of fly xxxx, rather than acknowledging the truth of a coup.

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On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 6:20 PM, Roy Wieselquist said:

Correction: It was Roy Kellerman, riding shotgun, who said, "Then a flurry of shells come [sic] into the car."  That was at the end of Greer braking the limo, before Clint Hill made his late appearance.

There were all kinds of noises, but there is not one report of firecrackers after the fact.  Some folks at the time thought the first and early shots were firecrackers, but that's because they weren't prepared for the plotters blowing the president's head apart and shooting JBC two good times.  And hitting the windshield chrome, rear view mirror, and the windshield itself; and the streets and the grass in Dealey at least three times, maybe five times.

There were all kinds of firearm-related noises.  Right now I'm most interested in those supersonic cracks that only the folks near the bullets' paths would have heard, because they came from supresssed rifles.  Evan, are you familiar with the principle of sonic crack?  When a missile breaks the sound barrier?

Or maybe, Evan, 'God' told you about these firecrackers.  Did he come to you as a burning bush, a la Isaiah's experience?

Um...it was Moses who had the burning bush experience, not Isaiah.  

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On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 11:54 PM, Roy Wieselquist said:

Hey Rich Pope,

This is your thread.  I suggest you come on and request that anyone responding to this topic answer the question "Number of shots."

I say six hit in the limo.  Three hit JFK.  Two hit JBC.  One hit no human.

An absolute minimum of three missed the limo.  (BTW the shot that hit in front of Jean Hill's feet is woefully neglected.  It may have gone on to hit in front of the manhole cover or gone on to strike the curb beside James Tague, depending on the direction it came from.)

There was the early shot that hit the street while the limo made the turn onto Elm.  Y'know it was lucky that the adrenaline-pumped Greer almost hit the curb opposite and had to jerk it back onto the main road.

Well, there were as many as five limo-missing shots.  That makes a total of 9 to 11.  I'm tired of being the only one who lays my cards on the table in some of these threads.

I count one in JFK's back, that was shallow with no exit point, one in the throat from the front, one in the back of the head and one in the front of the head.  So that's 4 for JFK.  Then you have to account for Connally, and then the missed shots.

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