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David Josephs

Just one of Judy Baker's claims - 11 weeks of bus rides

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It has been established that Judyth Baker lived at 1032 Marengo St and for 11 weeks between May 10th and July 26th 1963 rode to Reily Coffee every morning on a bus WITH OSWALD, worked as a bad secretary to Reily's VP Monahan, and then rode the bus home WITH OSWALD.

It was also established that BAKER was to perform a summer internship for Dr. Mary SHERMAN at the Ochsner Med Center in New Orleans whereby her superiors would help her gain entry to Tulane Univ.

Since BAKER is at REILY all day either en route there or back home with OSWALD, or working for VP Monahan....
    when did she have time and how did she attend the Dr. SHERMAN internship?

Here are the key locations for that summer... 

4907 Magazine, 1032 Marengo, 640 Magazine (around corner from 544 Camp) and the Ochsner Med Center miles in the opposite direction.

Baker%20interns%20at%20Dr%20Sherman%20bo

Here are the facts:

From her blog - but now removed - was a detailed biography.. which included the following passage:

Baker documented how cover jobs were arranged for herself and Oswald, where they spent approximately half their time. Though she was a slow typist, Baker said arrangements were made to hire her as a secretary for former FBI agent William I. Monahan, Wm. B. Reily Coffee Company’s Vice President of Security, Finance and Field Sales. After moving into nearby apartments the same week, Baker and Oswald rode the same bus to and from work together the next eleven weeks. Both Baker and Oswald began their employment on the same day, at a (then) small subsidiary company, Standard Coffee, owned by Reily, where their background reports were laundered and Baker was taught how to handle the Vice President’s secretarial duties. A week later, the two new employees were transferred together to Reily’s main company. WC documents support these facts

 

For those unaware of the details, Baker was at the Univ of Florida with the help of JFK groomsman GEORGE SMATHERS who provided Baker funds as well as "cover jobs" to account for the income.
From yet another site that presents and supports Judy's story,
 http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/judyth.htm

In the Spring of 1963, Ochsner offered her a summer internship at Ochsner Clinic in New Orleans, under the direction of the noted cancer research specialist, Dr. Mary S. Sherman, with the promise that she would receive a scholarship for early entry into Tulane Medical School that Fall. Her bus ticket shows she arrived in New Orleans a few days before Lee Harvey Oswald, in mid-April, 1963, two weeks before she was to begin her internship in Dr. Sherman's bone cancer lab. 

 

So the reason Judyth Vary (she weds BAKER later in New Orleans while supposedly having this affair with Lee Harvey) goes to New Orleans in the first place is the work with Dr. Mary Sherman at the Ochsner Med Center.

From Mid-April until May 4th Baker has no known address (unless it's in the book), worked at the ROYAL CASTLE restaurant as what - a chasier??? (the location was used by the FBI to spy on Carols Marcello)... when on the night of the 4th of May she claims :

from her bio: on May 4, 1963 Baker turned to Oswald after she was evicted in the middle of the night due to a police raid from her rented room.

The problem here is that Oswald was staying at LILLIAN MURRET's house on May 4th, a Saturday.  

Mrs. MURRET - No, he didn't get them out. He said he just wanted to put up there for a few days, you see, because he was trying to find a job, he told me, and then he said he would send for Marina, his wife, and the child. and I asked him to tell us what she looks like, you know, to describe her, and he said, "Well, she's just like any other American housewife." He said, "She wears shorts," and so forth, just like any other American housewife, and he said he would have to have a newspaper so he could scan the want ads and try to find himself a job, and so every morning he would get up and go through the newspaper looking for a job, and he would go out every morning with his newspaper, and he wouldn't come back until the afternoon, until supper time. I had supper anywhere from 5:30 to 6 o'clock, and he was there on time every day for supper, and after supper he didn't leave the house. He would sit down about 6:30 or 7 o'clock, and look at some television programs, and then he would go right to bed, and he did that every day while he was at the house, and so then on the first Sunday he was there, he was talking--we were talking about relatives, and he said to me, "Do you know anything about the Oswalds?" and I said, no, I said that I didn't. I said, "I don't know any of them other than your father, and I saw your uncle one time." I said, "I don't know anything about the family; I don't know them," so he said, "Well, you know, I don't know any of my relatives." He said, "You are the only one I know." 
Now, this was on a Sunday, and Lee had come to my house on a Monday. 

Based on this, Oswald arrived at MURRET's April 29th, Monday... With his "first Sunday" being May 5th...  the very next day after JUDYTH supposedly "Turns to him" upon her eviction from wherever she was living... 

(this is the same woman RECRUITED at 19 to work on bone Cancer research with the premier scientists in the country... for whom SMATHERS took a personal interest providing funds and cover... yet here she is working at a FBI front doing who-knows-what, living who-knows-where - yet in a place that is susceptible to being RAIDED??

Why in the world would a 19 year old waitress/cashier/covert researcher be raided and evicted in the first place?

Apr%20May%201963%20calendar%20of%20JVB%2

According to Ruth Paine though, Oswald buys tickets for he and Marina for New Orleans on April 23rd, then refunds Marina's on the 24th so she can stay with Ruth.


Mrs. PAINE - That is right. And he then bought a ticket, he bought a ticket for Marina, I mean I was thinking, while he was in the bus station, and suggested that it would be a very difficult thing for a pregnant woman with a small child to take a 12-hour, 13-hour bus trip to New Orleans, and suggested that I drive her down with June. 
Mr. JENNER - You volunteered this? 
Mrs. PAINE - I volunteered this, and suggested further that instead of her staying at her--at the apartment, as was planned at that time, while waiting to hear from him, that she come and stay at my house where he would reach us by phone, and where she would have someone else with her while she waited to hear if he got work. 
Mr. JENNER - This was the conversation between you and Lee Harvey Oswald? Was it in English or in Russian? 
Mrs. PAINE - Probably in Russian. I would think so, because I wanted her to understand. 
Mr. JENNER - Was Marina along? 
Mrs. PAINE - She was present. 
Mr. JENNER - She was present; I see. 
Representative FORD - This took place where, in the car? 

Mrs. PAINE - Probably in the bus station--in the car near the bus station. He then took the bus ticket back, returned it, and got the money. 

With Oswald leaving late at night the 24th and arriving in New Orleans the 25th... his whereabouts until he calls LILLIAN on the 29th is a mystery.
After BAKER gets evicted late Saturday night May 4th it is unknown where SHE stays as it was not with Oswald and she wouldn't find the Marengo Apartment until the following week.


No matter... somehow she moves into an apartment at 1032 Marengo...  a few blocks down from 4907 Magazine a a block or two from the Magazine-line bus stop.

Her internship with Dr Sherman would start - based on her stating she was a couple weeks early - in early May...

So rather than rent a room near the lab... She claims that they found their apartments that same week - yet Oswald does not learn about his job until May 9th, Thursday with his first day of work on May 10th, Friday.   He was so excited to have gotten this job he immediately went out to find an apartment by visiting a friend of Lee's mother, Myrtle Evans who in turn calls her friend Vicky Maynard who in turn shows Oswald 

Mrs. MURRET - Did I say anything about him speaking to her in Russian? 
Mr. JENNER - Yes. 
Mrs. MURRET - No; I didn't, but I did wonder about it, here was a man speaking in Russian who was an American, and he had had his wife over in this country for a year and a half, he said, and I did wonder why he didn't try to teach her English, but anyway, he called her after he got the job, and he got right off the phone and said, "I am going out and look for an apartment." So sure enough he found an apartment the very first day, and he came back and he said, "I have found an apartment," and I think it was $65 a month, he said the rent was.

Mrs. EVANS - Well, whatever date that was, that was the next time I saw him. I don't know if it was April or May, or even March; I don't know what date it was, but I got the apartment for him, and he moved in on the day he rented it, or the next day, I think. 
Mr. JENNER - He moved in on the 10th; would that be about right; the day after he rented the apartment? 
Mrs. EVANS - Well, if he rented it on the 9th, then that would be about right. He moved in the day after, I think it was. 
Mr. JENNER - On the 9th of May? 
Mrs. EVANS - I guess so; yes. That's when I saw him, on the 9th of May, and then he moved in on the 10th. 

...so I told him I would help him look for a place; so I rang up this friend of mine, and I asked her, I said, "Vickie, do you happen to know where I can rent an apartment for a young couple with one little baby?" and she said, "Yes; Myrtle, I will take children. This is a little duplex," she said, and she said, "This is a nice little apartment, and I think they will like it," and I said , "How much?" and she said, "$65," and I said, "Well, he can't spend too much; he is just getting a new job." 
Mr. JENNER - What's her name? 
Mrs. EVANS - Mrs. Maynard--Vickie Maynard. 

Mrs. EVANS - So she said, "Myrtle, bring him over, and I'll see you in about 10 minutes," and I said, "We'll come up and see it," so we got in the car and went up and looked at it, but it wasn't too impressive. It was an upper, and they had no laundry facilities, or anything. They did have a little spare room that he could have made into a nursery for the baby, but Lee wasn't satisfied with it after we looked at it. He told me that he would rather get something on the first floor, and with laundry facilities, having the baby and all, so I said, "Well, come on, Lee; I don't know anybody that will take children," I said, "but we will Just ride up and down the streets and see what we can find." So we rode in and out and all around Baronne and Napoleon and Louisiana Avenue, and Carondelet, you know, just weaving in and out the streets, and looking for any signs of apartments for rent, so we finally rode down Magazine Street, and I said, "You might as well get as close to your work as possible if you are going to get an apartment." 
 

(DJ: Strangely though, they drive AWAY from Reily since "Baronne and Napoleon and Louisiana Avenue, and Carondelet"   are to the EAST of 4907 Magazine)

Magazine%20location%20conflicts%20with%2         

Furthermore, for someone having just met their TRUE LOVE (JVB says she turned to Oswald on May 4th after being evicted - more details below) and enjoying the freedoms from boyfriends/wives as Judyth's intended was still in Florida while Marina was still with Ruth...

Does it make any sense that Oswald would immediately send for Marina while just starting an affair with Judyth?

Mr. JENNER - Had you learned in the meantime that he had a job with the Reily Coffee Co.? 
Mrs. EVANS - Yes. He told me that he had just got a job with the Reily Coffee Co., and that he wanted his wife to come over here. In fact, he was going to phone her to come over that Saturday, I believe he said. 
Mr. JENNER - Did he say what kind of job he had with Reily? 
Mrs. EVANS - No; he just told me he was going to work for the Reily Coffee Co., and that he had been staying at Lillian's, and that he was anxious for his wife to come to New Orleans, and he said a friend was going to drive her over here; so we were coming down Magazine Street, and all of a sudden he said, "Oh, there's a sign," and I said, "Good," so I pulled up around the corner, and we got out and read the sign, and then we went up and rang the doorbell, and they showed us two apartments, and this one apartment was very good for the money.

To recap on just this one salient point...

  • BAKER and Oswald MUST MEET prior to May 4th or else how would she know how to reach out to him?
  • BAKER and Oswald begin their love affair right away

    It was through this amazing coincidence that Lee thought I knew so much.

    He was standing behind me [at the post office] for general delivery, April 26, when I went to get a letter from the general delivery.

    As I got the letter, I reached for it, and dropped the newspaper, and when Lee picked it up, without realizing it, I thanked him in Russian. I was always practicing Russian (which I’d been required to learn to level of conversational by my doctors, etc – and which is on record at Manatee (then Jr.) Community College–) – so now Lee heard me saying, “Karashaw, tavarish!” in Russian, and he answered me quickly, “That’s not a very wise thing to do, to be speaking Russian in a place like this.”

    That did it, we began talking together. Endnote

    The little speech bubble at the end is the footnote source for this information:  E-mail to 10 people dated November 16, 2000.
    IOW - the source for them meeting is JUDYTH BAKER's own words.. and nothing else. that her dates and activities conflict at every turn and with every witness is simply par for the JVB course.

    Anna LEWIS spoke on camera with JUDYTH in the room about when she and Judy and their men would go out together...
    She repeats this more than once and both before and after the camera stops filming...

     


    At 1:45 - "In about Feb 1962, I met Lee Harvey Oswald in the Park" (by Banister's place where she went
    for a date with he husband to be David Lewis, a friend of Jack Martin who worked for Banister.)

    At 2:53 she says in April 1962 they left New Orleans but returned again later in 1962 when she sees LEE come into the restaurant where she worked and simply would not acknowledge her..

    She claims and restates that SHE MET LEE OSWALD BETWEEN FEB AND APRIL 1962 IN RELATION TO GUY BANISTER, JACK MARTIN AND DAVID LEWIS.
    On February 15, 1962 - in the presence of M/M Oswald, June Lee Oswald Lee Harvey Oswald's daughter was born: February 15, 1962
    IN MINSK with Lee there as well.


     
  • BAKER must know a way to contact OSWALD at the MURRETS yet LILLIAN says nothing of a middle of the night call/visit on May 4th.

    and so every morning he would get up and go through the newspaper looking for a job, and he would go out every morning with his newspaper, and he wouldn't come back until the afternoon, until supper time. I had supper anywhere from 5:30 to 6 o'clock, and he was there on time every day for supper, and after supper he didn't leave the house. He would sit down about 6:30 or 7 o'clock, and look at some television programs, and then he would go right to bed, and he did that every day while he was at the house, and so then on the first Sunday he was there, he was talking--we were talking about relatives, and he said to me, "Do you know anything about the Oswalds?" and I said, no, I said that I didn't. I said, "I don't know any of them other than your father, and I saw your uncle one time." I said, "I don't know anything about the family; I don't know them," so he said, "Well, you know, I don't know any of my relatives." He said, "You are the only one I know." 
  • On Sunday May 5th, Oswald - instead of spending the day after JUDYTH BAKER WAS EVICTED with her, decides to call all the Oswalds in the phone book finally locating HAZEL OSWALD the 2nd wife of William Oswald who was Lee Oswald's Uncle - like Dutch Murret on Lee's mother's side - Lee's father's brother.

    With this love affair in the earliest days one would think he'd want to spend every waking moment with his new love...  but he did not.  so we have to wonder...

    If BAKER's story is truthful, who did she "turn to" on May 4th...while Lee Harvey Oswald was with the Murrets? and what was the outcome ?
    Where did BAKER stay the 5th, 6th ...until she moved to 1032 Marengo?


     

 

 

 

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Nice job David.

God, this woman's story is so full of holes.  I especially like the fact that she is working on a super secret project but has to worry about being evicted?

I agree that is one long bus ride also.

Carol Hewett tracked her story for CBS.  She said from the time she dropped out of college until she arrived in New Orleans, she could not follow it at all.  And Carol was a first class attorney who graduated from UT at Austin.  

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A couple of details. I don't remember much of New Orleans public transit before the 1970s, but much similar to a decade earlier. It was better than currently in the city, especially in the older parts of town closer to the river. Not unusual for people to commute to work from say the Carrollton neighborhood (around where the map says "Oak Street" towards the center left) to the Central Business District/Canal Street on the border of the French Quarter, less than an hour on NOPSI (New Orleans Public Service Inc. -  the company that ran transit, electric, and gas in the city; the latter two partially subsidizing public transit).

Left out of the map is the Murrat house, on French Street in the Lakeview section. That was a middle to upper middle class "automobile suburb" at the time;  IIRC most use of public transit was "domestic help" (maids) coming in mornings and leaving evenings. The French Street address was just a block and a half off the Canal Boulevard line, making it plausibly accessible by public transport. But buses were rare off the morning and evening peak; I recall 90 min or more waits in that part of town for a bus when I visited that part of town before I had a car. It would also involve transfers; least difficult in '63 would be to take the old Canal Streetcar to the end of the line in Mid-City (at City Park Avenue) then transfer to the Canal Boulevard Bus. 

Getting to Ochsner not only involves transfer within the system; it is outside of the city  limits of New Orleans in Jefferson Parish, involving another transfer to the separate Jefferson Parish transit system. The map shows a route from St. Charles Avenue to River Road in Jefferson near Ochsner. That would be a good route by automobile, but I'm unaware of any public transit route doing that. From Magazine/Marengo area either two bus routes or one bus and one streetcar to get to the intersection of S. Claiborne and S. Carrollton, then another transfer to Jefferson Parish Jeff Highway bus 2 miles to Ochsner. 

FWIW.

Edited by Daniel Meyer

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16 hours ago, David Josephs said:

With this love affair in the earliest days one would think he'd want to spend every waking moment with his new love...  but he did not.  so we have to wonder...

If BAKER's story is truthful, who did she "turn to" on May 4th...while Lee Harvey Oswald was with the Murrets? and what was the outcome ?
Where did BAKER stay the 5th, 6th ...until she moved to 1032 Marengo?

Yes, you made a really good job, David. Really thank you for this.

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7 hours ago, Daniel Meyer said:

A couple of details. I don't remember much of New Orleans public transit before the 1970s, but much similar to a decade earlier. It was better than currently in the city, especially in the older parts of town closer to the river. Not unusual for people to commute to work from say the Carrollton neighborhood (around where the map says "Oak Street" towards the center left) to the Central Business District/Canal Street on the border of the French Quarter, less than an hour on NOPSI (New Orleans Public Service Inc. -  the company that ran transit, electric, and gas in the city; the latter two partially subsidizing public transit).

Left out of the map is the Murrat house, on French Street in the Lakeview section. That was a middle to upper middle class "automobile suburb" at the time;  IIRC most use of public transit was "domestic help" (maids) coming in mornings and leaving evenings. The French Street address was just a block and a half off the Canal Boulevard line, making it plausibly accessible by public transport. But buses were rare off the morning and evening peak; I recall 90 min or more waits in that part of town for a bus when I visited that part of town before I had a car. It would also involve transfers; least difficult in '63 would be to take the old Canal Streetcar to the end of the line in Mid-City (at City Park Avenue) then transfer to the Canal Boulevard Bus. 

Getting to Ochsner not only involves transfer within the system; it is outside of the city  limits of New Orleans in Jefferson Parish, involving another transfer to the separate Jefferson Parish transit system. The map shows a route from St. Charles Avenue to River Road in Jefferson near Ochsner. That would be a good route by automobile, but I'm unaware of any public transit route doing that. From Magazine/Marengo area either two bus routes or one bus and one streetcar to get to the intersection of S. Claiborne and S. Carrollton, then another transfer to Jefferson Parish Jeff Highway bus 2 miles to Ochsner. 

FWIW.

Your recall of the NO transit system even close to that time frame is remarkable and full of relevant and informative details.  Thanks for sharing.

Edited by Joe Bauer

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On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 12:33 AM, Daniel Meyer said:

Getting to Ochsner not only involves transfer within the system; it is outside of the city  limits of New Orleans in Jefferson Parish, involving another transfer to the separate Jefferson Parish transit system. The map shows a route from St. Charles Avenue to River Road in Jefferson near Ochsner. That would be a good route by automobile, but I'm unaware of any public transit route doing that. From Magazine/Marengo area either two bus routes or one bus and one streetcar to get to the intersection of S. Claiborne and S. Carrollton, then another transfer to Jefferson Parish Jeff Highway bus 2 miles to Ochsner

thanks Daniel... here is a visual as well...  You'll also notice there was something fishy with the French St address...

Strange that Lillian would get it backward...  In 1954 and 1963 (and now) the address was 757 French...  So they must have changed FROM 809 to 757 and not the other way around...

Is this supposed to be a double cover story?  Both Reily and Ochsner/Sherman - so she could do this clandestine research at "Ferrie's underground cancer research lab"...  yet she is so fond of saying how they rode the bus too and from Reily together for almost 3 months...

Has anyone read enough of her book to know when and where she spent ANY TIME with Dr. Sherman or at the Ochsner Med Center??

Thx...

DJ

 

757%20French%20Lillian%20Murret%20cannot

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