I Was A Teenage Warren Commission Report Dupe

[Jim Hargrove]

56 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

I wish I could go into court and pronounce to the judge “all the evidence against my client your honor is phony and wait for the judge to say case dismissed.”  But in reality it does not work like that. Simply because you can question something, as you did above, does not make it a fact or true. 

Fair enough, Cory.  But if I handed the court PROOF that the FBI and Warren Commission deliberately altered the statements of critical eyewitnesses, altered sworn testimony even of their own special agents, and fabricated documentary evidence, do you think your wish would have a better chance of coming true?

The short (3 minute) YouTube video below demonstrates quite clearly how the FBI altered the observations of three critical Dealey Plaza witnesses who believed shots may have been taken at JFK from outside of the Texas School Book Depository, thus contradicting the official story.
 

Among many other things, the FBI went to extraordinary lengths to suppress evidence of what CIA accountant James Wilcott called the “Oswald Project,” including sending out agents within hours of the assassination to confiscate original school and teen-aged employment records of “Lee Harvey Oswald,” all of which disappeared to be replaced by black and white photos. In the wee hours of the night of Nov 22-23, 1963, the FBI secretly took “Oswald's Possessions” from the Dallas Police Department, transported them to Washington, D.C. altered them, and then secretly returned them to Dallas, only to publicly send them to Washington. D.C. a few days later. Among a great many other alterations, a Minox “spy camera” became a Minox “light meter.” Tax records, not found by Dallas police who said they initialed each scrap of paper, magically appeared without DPD initials.  FBI agent James Cadigan inadvertently spilled the bean about the secret transfer during his sworn WC testimony, which was altered by the WC.

To see examples of how the FBI fabricated documents allegedly related to the magic rifle, see:

https://harveyandlee.net/Guns/Guns.html

Literally dozens of other examples of fabricated and altered documents can be seen on my web page:

https://harveyandlee.net

Edited December 2, 2018 by Jim Hargrove

[Cory Santos]

2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Fair enough, Cory.  But if I handed the court PROOF that the FBI and Warren Commission deliberately altered the statements of critical eyewitnesses, altered sworn testimony even of their own special agents, and fabricated documentary evidence, do you think your wish would have a better chance of coming true?

The short (3 minute) YouTube video below demonstrates quite clearly how the FBI altered the observations of three critical Dealey Plaza witnesses who believed shots may have been taken at JFK from outside of the Texas School Book Depository, thus contradicting the official story.
 

Among many other things, the FBI went to extraordinary lengths to suppress evidence of what CIA accountant James Wilcott called the “Oswald Project,” including sending out agents within hours of the assassination to confiscate original school and teen-aged employment records of “Lee Harvey Oswald,” all of which disappeared to be replaced by black and white photos. In the wee hours of the night of Nov 22-23, 1963, the FBI secretly took “Oswald's Possessions” from the Dallas Police Department, transported them to Washington, D.C. altered them, and then secretly returned them to Dallas, only to publicly send them to Washington. D.C. a few days later. Among a great many other alterations, a Minox “spy camera” became a Minox “light meter.” Tax records, not found by Dallas police who said they initialed each scrap of paper, magically appeared without DPD initials.  FBI agent James Cadigan inadvertently spilled the bean about the secret transfer during his sworn WC testimony, which was altered by the WC.

To see examples of how the FBI fabricated documents allegedly related to the magic rifle, see:

https://harveyandlee.net/Guns/Guns.html

Literally dozens of other examples of fabricated and altered documents can be seen on my web page:

https://harveyandlee.net

I understand those points. But, he did leave the TSBD, he did return to the boarding room and retrieve a weapon, he did bring something to the TSBD that morning, he did leave his wedding ring.  Those facts are not coincidences but relevant as to what happened that day.  

[Ron Bulman]

3 hours ago, Cory Santos said:

I wish I could go into court and pronounce to the judge “all the evidence against my client your honor is phony and wait for the judge to say case dismissed.”  But in reality it does not work like that. Simply because you can question something, as you did above, does not make it a fact or true. 

That's just the thing though, the case(s) didn't go to court they went to the Warren Omission.  A commission with no investigative power like a DA would have available.  Or an attorney representing Oswald would have had, at least theoretically.  Witnesses weren't cross examined.  They had to rely on the obstinate FBI, CIA and DPD and that in and of itself is a deep subject.    

[Jim Hargrove]

28 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

I understand those points. But, he did leave the TSBD, he did return to the boarding room and retrieve a weapon, he did bring something to the TSBD that morning, he did leave his wedding ring.  Those facts are not coincidences but relevant as to what happened that day.  

Please show any proof you have that "Lee Harvey Oswald" retrieved a .38 revolver at the rooming house where Earlene Roberts worked.  Here is the tiny closet "LHO" supposedly lived in. 

Earlene Roberts said she would have found any weapon "Lee Harvey Oswald" allegedly hid in that "room," but she never saw anything.  Please show me any evidence you have that "Lee Harvey Oswald" left his Russian wedding ring in Ruth Paine's home on November 22, 1963, or thereabouts.

[Ron Bulman]

 

Regarding the development of suspicions that there was something fishy about the lone nut story, I think for me that started with Watergate.  I remember the assassination in that I'd just turned seven, walked home three blocks for lunch from Gust elementary in Denver, mother had the radio on the whole time I was there which was unusual and she got a phone call and seemed excited.  I went back to an empty school and a crying teacher that told me to go back home.  Then nothing but news on the black and white tv for days.  No Friday night movie, Saturday morning cartoons.  Don't remember anything about Oswald getting shot.  Do remember watching the funeral.  But I don't ever remember it being discussed in our house then or later.  Both my parents voted but they weren't "political".

Then as a high school senior in 1974 our civics teacher told us to pay attention to what was happening to the President, that it was historical.  Wow, the President was a crook.  He had to quit or get kicked out of office.  All of the people in government were not necessarily the good guy's wearing white hats.  At the same time, living in the middle of the D/FW (now) metromess one of myself and friends cruises to get out of town was to head down the still relatively new 2 lane each way airport freeway through Irving to Dallas.  Our turnaround was to get off on Commerce and make a loop through Dealy Plaza to head back home.  I remember thinking the angle from the sixth floor could have made it a tough shot to a moving target small as a head (had no idea who Greer was then or that he damn near stopped).  I'd seen my dad, a good shot, miss a deer from a steep slope in Colorado shooting first high and breaking her back then over correcting low and breaking a leg.  Much as I like venison (though I've not hunted in years) I've always felt sorry for that deer.  I was taught not to shoot unless you thought you had a clear clean kill shot.  The man who taught me that thought he could kill the deer with one shot, but elevation increases difficulty, I've read about it since.  That made me think as we passed the TSBD that Oswald must have been a real good shot to hit him twice.

Then 3-4 years after high school I started seeing articles in news papers and magazines and news clips on tv about JFK and new investigations but I didn't pay close attention.

I think the next time I wondered about something being not right about our government was when the day Reagan took office the Iranian hostages were finally released.  I wondered, why did they hate Carter so much, why do they like or trust Reagan so much to do this on this significant day?

In the late 80's I came across mafia did it books like Contract on America and Mafia Kingfish and I jumped on the Blakey train though I didn't know who he was.  Though misguided these did make me come to the conclusion Oswald didn't do it alone.  He wasn't a lone nut.

Then 91 came around with High Treason and the movie JFK.  Holy Cow, could rouge elements of the CIA have possibly been involved?  In 93 the paperback version of Crossfire came out and I bought it a year or so later.  By then I Really didn't believe Oswald acted alone.  In the late 90's this thing called the internet came to my house.  In the early 2000's I started seeing the JFK assassination become a subject of interest.  Which led me to books like Destiny Betrayed, Best Evidence, the Radical Right and the Murder of JFK, and The Man Who Knew Too Much and ultimately many more.  Then I found this site a little before the 50th along with JFKFacts and CTKA which led to even more reading and finally commenting.  So in essence I'm still a newby in the search for the Truth still trying to catch up.  But I think I have developed a healthy skepticism.  There is a lot of BS out there, best to evaluate info trying to use reason as well as using it and facts for backup in any speculation.  For example I've come to doubt Oswald took a shot at anyone, likely he was just a patsy after all, I.E., he likely didn't shoot Tippit either.  Beware of false idols, or misdirection.  LBJ didn't have the power, imagination or gumption to plan, organize, direct and control it, for example.  

[Cory Santos]

2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Please show any proof you have that "Lee Harvey Oswald" retrieved a .38 revolver at the rooming house where Earlene Roberts worked.  Here is the tiny closet "LHO" supposedly lived in. 

Earlene Roberts said she would have found any weapon "Lee Harvey Oswald" allegedly hid in that "room," but she never saw anything.  Please show me any evidence you have that "Lee Harvey Oswald" left his Russian wedding ring in Ruth Paine's home on November 22, 1963, or thereabouts.

Wow okay so did LHO have a weapon on him when he was arrested?  By your comments above the whole FBI and Dallas police were involved in a conspiracy. Cmon. You have zero proof the gun he had was planted.  This is the problem with this subject.  I am not saying the WC is credible, far from it. But there are some facts and it is far from accurate, whether you look at it scientifically, legally, medically, or historically to just dismiss some facts as either not relevant because they are simply conspiracy talk or alternatively stating all evidence is fake or that the DPD all wanted LHO to be the victime of a conspiracy. Both are intellectually dishonest. I am not saying there was no conspiracy but I am saying that there is no way LHO was an innocent victime with no clue what was happening. His actions show otherwise. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Cory Santos

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Cory Santos said:

Wow okay so did LHO have a weapon on him when he was arrested?  By your comments above the whole FBI and Dallas police were involved in a conspiracy. Cmon. You have zero proof the gun he had was planted.  This is the problem with this subject.  I am not saying the WC is credible, far from it. But there are some facts and it is far from accurate, whether you look at it scientifically, legally, medically, or historically to just dismiss some facts as either not relevant because they are simply conspiracy talk or alternatively stating all evidence is fake or that the DPD all wanted LHO to be the victime of a conspiracy. Both are intellectually dishonest. I am not saying there was no conspiracy but I am saying that there is no way LHO was an innocent victime with no clue what was happening. His actions show otherwise. 

Jim didn't say Oswald's pistol was planted.  But that has been speculated on.  No evidence he ever ordered the gun from Seaport traders in California or of it being shipped as records would have required or that he picked it up as required from the supposed shipping company.  If you believe anything from Fritz notes Oswald supposedly said he bought it from a pawn shop in Fort Worth.  David Joseph's, please correct any discrepancies in my post, I defer. 

[Cory Santos]

Ron he asked for proof that LHO retrieved a gun from the boarding house.  I asked whether he had a gun or not when arrested. Simple.  He has no proof he didn’t.  Does that make it factual he didn’t get it?  No not at all.   As he feels all the evidence was phony, I want to know if his gun was therefore planted. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Cory Santos

[Ron Bulman]

10 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

Ron he asked for proof that LHO retrieved a gun from the boarding house.  I asked whether he had a gun or not when arrested. Simple.  He has no proof he didn’t.  Does that make it factual he didn’t get it?  No not at all.   As he feels the all the evidence was phony, I want to know if his gun was therefore planted. 

So the real question is, can it be proven he even owned a gun?  If not then it was planted.  Unless Jack Ruby gave it to him on the corner of Elm and Houston after the assassination as one witness said (a witness never questioned about such).   

Edited December 3, 2018 by Ron Bulman

[Cory Santos]

2 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

So the real question is, can it be proven he even owned a gun?    

What do you think he had on him when he was arrested?

[Ron Bulman]

7 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

So the real question is, can it be proven he even owned a gun?  If not then it was planted.  Unless Jack Ruby gave it to him on the corner of Elm and Houston after the assassination as one witness said (a witness never questioned about such).   

Edited, bumped for Cory.

[Ron Bulman]

7 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

What do you think he had on him when he was arrested?

Sorry to digress.  This makes think of the Godfather restaurant scene.   "I don't want my brother coming out of that bathroom with his d**k in his hand."  Maybe that's all Oswald had,  just trying to keep from getting his nuts kicked?

[Jim Hargrove]

Cory and Ron,

I think it is obvious that Lee HARVEY Oswald had a gun in the theater, but I sincerely doubt it was the weapon used to kill Tippit.  The .38 revolver, and the murder of J.D. Tippit, were all part of a plot to set up Oswald as the patsy for the murder of JFK, a plot that had been unfolding for weeks in and around Dallas.  (If you’re planning to gun down a sitting U.S. President in broad daylight, you’ve GOT to have a patsy.  Otherwise, the search for you will be relentless—and you will be caught.)

The FBI/WC story of how Oswald got the hand gun seems unlikely at best.  John Armstrong has a very short write-up on it HERE.  It just takes a couple of minutes to read.

More likely, I think, is that someone gave a .38 pistol to Oswald along with a story and the two torn-in-half dollar bills and instructed him (Oswald was a spy; he was accustomed to following even difficult orders) to meet a contact at the Texas Theater who held the other half of the dollar bill(s).  The contacts were never there, but the plot to set up the patsy was nearly done.

At the theater, Officer McDonald got the revolver from the patsy-to-be and handed it to Officer Bob Carroll. In the back seat of Captain W.R. Westbrook’s unmarked car, Officer Jerry Hill, who worked directly for Westbrook, got the gun from Carroll and at about 2:15 pm brought it directly to Westbrook’s office at police headquarters, where it stayed for an HOUR!

Westbrook was in charge of personnel for the DPD.  Why on earth was the gun in his office instead of where it should have been for all that time: Homicide and Robbery?   We think Westbrook substituted the gun used to kill Tippit for the gun obtained at the theater.  After the assassination, Westbrook became an advisor to the Saigon (Vietnam) police, suggesting he had intelligence connections.  For the details on how we think Westbrook obtained the Tippit murder weapon, see this page (which, unfortunately, is fairly lengthy):

https://harveyandlee.net/Tippit/Tippit.html

This is obviously a theory.  I can’t prove that there were two revolvers and that a substitution was made in Westbrook’s office.  But I CAN prove that a lot of the evidence in this case is as phony as a stack of three dollar bills.  Because of that, it doesn’t seem much of a stretch to me to say that ALL the evidence against “Lee Harvey Oswald” is phony.  If he was just a patsy, the evidence has to be phony, doesn’t it?  This was an elaborate plot, with many of the earmarks of an intelligence operation.
 

[Joe Bauer]

In 1991 ( 28 years after 11,22,1963 ) there were still a lot of JFK conspiracy freaks running around.

At least if you figure the tens of millions of American adults ( and foreign ones too)  who were willing to pay out their hard earned movie theater ticket money to view Oliver Stone's film "JFK", even though most of the American MSM movie critics and other media commentators trashed the film ( harder and more viciously than any other film in their careers ) and who starting doing so almost a year before the film even premiered.

Those millions of JFK conspiracy freak ticket buyers ignored the MSM film critics,  or simply didn't believe them.

And if these JFK ticket buyers were conspiracy freaks "or dupes" before seeing Stone's film, they must have become absolute lunatics after, since polls of Americans after the film's theater run revealed a significant "spike" in the number of American's who didn't believe the official finding of the Warren Commission Report.

And the previous WC doubting number was high to begin with.

Stones "JFK" film made over $200 million dollars in ticket sales ( domestic and foreign combined ) back in 1991.

Adjusted for inflation that amount in 1991 equals $368 million in today's dollar value.

Stone's "JFK" was the 6th highest grossing American film of 1991. It was nominated for 8 Academy Awards and won two.

The only reason JFK conspiracy polls have dropped to smaller majority numbers in the last 20 years is because our main population is made up of so many younger generation Americans who naturally know very little about the assassination and the history and body of JFK assassination research.

This number drop doesn't reflect a new trust of the WC and their "lone nut" finding. Just a disinterest in the whole story due to later generational apathy.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Joe Bauer

[Jim Hargrove]

Hypothetical question for Cory….

Apologies for asking for a free legal opinion, but we’re all obviously interested in this case, and so I thought you wouldn’t mind.

Let’s say you were defending a client against criminal charges at a jury trial, and that the prosecution presented ten pieces of evidence seeming to indicate your client was guilty as charged.  Let’s also say you were able to show that three of those pieces of evidence were clearly invented or substantially altered by police or someone else on the prosecution’s side, i.e., the false evidence was clearly not the result of simple errors or sloppy investigation techniques but by all reasonable analyses was out and out fraud meant to deceive the jury.

Let’s also say you were unable to prove the other seven pieces of evidence were phony, but you were able to give the jury a reasonable explanation why they, like the three debunked pieces of evidence, were fraudulent.  Would you have a chance of getting your client off the hook based on those three pieces of clearly fraudulent evidence?