Bush not in Dallas- He is dead

[David Von Pein]

9 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

That story by Myers is hilarious.

Sort of like Davey finding that postal worker who said, "Heck yeah, we can deliver a package 700 miles and have the guy get it within 12 hours. Even without zip codes. Do it all the time."

Oh how quickly James DiEugenio forgets the things I've told him in the past. Like THIS AUDIO CLIP from a radio program that aired in January of 1952!  And this letter is making a 3,000-mile trip, not just 700 miles. And it's making the cross-country trip in helicopters and propeller-driven aircraft, not jet aircraft! ....

"You could mail a letter in San Bernardino [California] tonight, and it would be in New York tomorrow morning."

Still think it's impossible, Jim?

Edited January 2, 2019 by David Von Pein

[Sandy Larsen]

7 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig was searching the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository, when a rifle was discovered. Craig wrote, “… At that exact moment an unknown Dallas police officer came running up the stairs and advised Capt. Fritz that a Dallas policeman had been shot in the Oak Cliff area. I instinctively looked at my watch. The time was 1:06 PM."

 

Oh my gosh, that is yet another 1:06 Tippit timing I was unaware of! This evidence has become a slam dunk! LOL why am I not surprised?

(I didn't list the testimonies saying "shortly after 1:00" because they're a little ambiguous for me. But most of the other evidence points to 1:06.)

 

[David Von Pein]

So now, Sandy (et al), if that "1:06" report of Roger Craig's is exactly correct, you've got to back up the actual time of Tippit's murder to about--what?--12:55 or 1:00 or 1:02.

Keep going....pretty soon you'll have Tippit being shot before JFK was assassinated.

But we know that Roger Craig's 1:06 timing is way off, because the above excerpt posted by Jim Hargrove says that when Craig heard of Tippit's murder, the rifle had just then been discovered on the sixth floor. And we know the rifle was found at precisely 1:22 PM. (Or should I believe the "1:22" official time for the rifle discovery is a "fake" time too?)

Edited January 2, 2019 by David Von Pein

[Sandy Larsen]

15 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Oh how quickly James DiEugenio forgets the things I've told him in the past. Like THIS AUDIO CLIP from a radio program that aired in January of 1952!  And this letter is making a 3,000-mile trip, not just 700 miles....

"You could mail a letter in San Bernardino [California] tonight, and it would be in New York tomorrow morning."

https://app.box.com/Audio Clip/January 1952

Still think it's impossible, Jim?

 

I don't think so, Tim. I mean Dave.

First, I doubt that post offices were even open in the evening back then. Second, once the mail arrived in New York in the morning, it would still need sorting and delivery.

I think that the point of this postal worker's statement was that any mail collected and sorted by the end of the workday in San Bernardino, California would be in New York (City?) the following morning... waiting to be sorted and delivered. Of course it would arrive that quickly, having been transported by helicopter to the airport and then to NYC by airplane.

Though, granted, the sorting may have been completed that morning. And possibly the delivery.

Air mail has never been very fast during my adult lifetime. It takes at least a couple days to receive a letter from anywhere, even from my next door neighbor. (A letter from Provo first goes to SLC, and then back to Provo.)

(My apologies, Jim, if I stepped on your toes with this reply, given that the question was addressed to you.)

 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

50 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

So now, Sandy (et al), if that "1:06" report of Roger Craig's is exactly correct, you've got to back up the actual time of Tippit's murder to about--what?--12:55 or 1:00 or 1:02.

Keep going....pretty soon you'll have Tippit being shot before JFK was assassinated.

But we know that Roger Craig's 1:06 timing is way off, because the above excerpt posted by Jim Hargrove says that when Craig heard of Tippit's murder, the rifle had just then been discovered on the sixth floor. And we know the rifle was found at precisely 1:22 PM. (Or should I believe the "1:22" official time for the rifle discovery is a "fake" time too?)

 

The 1:06 PM shooting time of Tippit looks to be pretty solid. Plus or minus a minute. (Remember, 1:06:00 and 1:06:59 are nearly a minute apart, but are still both said to be 1:06.) So I'd say that Roger Craig's watch was running a little slow. Maybe 2 or 3 minutes slow.

I'm studying the problem you point out in your third paragraph.

 

Edited January 2, 2019 by Sandy Larsen

[Jim Hargrove]

More proof that the FBI altered the DPD radio dictabelts by recording their contents on magnetic audio tape, editing the tape by physically cutting and splicing, and then re-recording new dictabelts.

The DPD radio transcript created by FBI  (CE1974) reads at 1:44 PM: "Tape splice" (below).

For those too young to remember them, Dictabelts were thin plastic belts 12 inches in circumference and 3-1/2 inches wide.  Recordings were made on Dictabelts by a sharp stylus (a needle) that cut grooves in the plastic and vibrated according to sound pressure, in a process similar to mastering a vinyl LP record.

The same machine, called a Dictaphone or Time-Master, recorded the sound and then played it back.  No magnetic audio tape was involved... just the plastic belts ...

... until, that is, the FBI began faking yet more evidence.  The excerpt of CE1974 (above) is yet another piece of evidence showing how the FBI altered the timing of the DPD radio broadcast transcripts.

As John wrote on my website, READERS MUST REMEMBER THAT ALL OF THESE TYPEWRITTEN TRANSCRIPTS, THE FIRST OF WHICH WAS CREATED ON DECEMBER 3, WERE CREATED ONLY AFTER THE FBI RECEIVED THE ORIGINAL DPD DICTABELTS AND DISKS A FEW DAYS AFTER THE ASSASSINATION, AND THEN RETURNED ALTERED COPIES TO THE DPD.  

[Sandy Larsen]

24 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

So now, Sandy (et al), if that "1:06" report of Roger Craig's is exactly correct, you've got to back up the actual time of Tippit's murder to about--what?--12:55 or 1:00 or 1:02.

Keep going....pretty soon you'll have Tippit being shot before JFK was assassinated.

But we know that Roger Craig's 1:06 timing is way off, because the above excerpt posted by Jim Hargrove says that when Craig heard of Tippit's murder, the rifle had just then been discovered on the sixth floor. And we know the rifle was found at precisely 1:22 PM. (Or should I believe the "1:22" official time for the rifle discovery is a "fake" time too?)

 

The 1:06 PM shooting time of Tippit looks to be pretty solid. Plus or minus a minute. (Remember, 1:06:00 and 1:06:59 are nearly a minute apart, but are still both said to be 1:06.) So I'd say that Roger Craig's watch was running a little slow. Maybe 2 or 3 minutes slow.

I'm studying the problem you point out in your third paragraph.

 

Roger Craig's timing is problematic for both our 1:06 PM shooting time and the WC's 1:15 PM shooting time. It's much more problematic for the WC's timing because it shows that Craig heard of Tippit's shooting several minute before it officially occurred.

As I said in my prior post, I believe that Craig's watch was running a couple minutes slow (at least), which if true would mean that he learned of Tippit's 1:06 PM shooting at 1:08 PM (instead of his 1:06 PM watch time). That part of his statement would be reasonable. But it would also mean that the rifle was found at 1:08 PM instead of the official WC time, 1:22 PM. How can that be explained?

For a moment let's supposed that the official "finding of the rifle" time," 1:22 PM, was based on the DPD radio transcript timestamps. Recall that I believe that 9 minutes were added to all the transcript timestamps. If true, this means that the rifle was really found at 1:13 PM. If Craig's watch were running 7 minutes slow, then his story works out:

1. Tippit is shot at 1:06 PM.
2. Craig sees the rifle being found at 1:13 PM. (His watch is running slow and shows 1:06 PM.)
3. At that same time he is notified that Tippit had been shot.

Or maybe Craig just recalled incorrectly.

 

[David Von Pein]

49 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Roger Craig's timing is problematic for both our 1:06 PM shooting time and the WC's 1:15 PM shooting time. It's much more problematic for the WC's timing because it shows that Craig heard of Tippit's shooting several minute before it officially occurred.

Not if the time was really 1:22 instead of 1:06 --- which is undoubtedly the reasonable answer.

And don't you find it rather interesting that Craig's time of "1:06" perfectly matches Helen Markham's "1:06"? Odd coincidence, isn't it?

When was the first time Craig uttered his "1:06" timeline, BTW? Any idea? Had he known about Markham's specific "1:06" reference when he first dished up his "1:06" fairy tale, I wonder?

As a side note here....

You do realize that Roger D. Craig is one of the few PROVABLE LIARS connected to the JFK case, don't you Sandy? There can be no doubt about that fact, as I prove in the article below....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2016/10/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1194.html

 

Edited January 2, 2019 by David Von Pein

[Sandy Larsen]

48 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

More proof that the FBI altered the DPD radio dictabelts by recording their contents on magnetic audio tape, editing the tape by physically cutting and splicing, and then re-recording new dictabelts.

The DPD radio transcript created by FBI  (CE1974) reads at 1:44 PM: "Tape splice" (below).

 

 

The only innocent reason I can think of for the FBI splicing tapes is if there was more audio than could fit on one tape. But even that doesn't makes sense because, if the tape recorder couldn't record such a long period of audio, then it also couldn't play such a long period. Unless a portable tape recorder was used for recoring and a reel-to-reel was used to play back.

But even that can't explain it. I checked through the transcript on McAdam's website and found tape splices that were less than 15 minutes apart.

I wonder how it came about that the tape splices were notated on the transcripts in the first place. I would think that the typist would simply play the tape and type what she heard. Not look at the tape for splices.

Actually, I doubt that a tape recorder/player was even used in making the transcripts... unless there were ones designed specifically for that purpose. Because the typist would have had to been able to stop and start the tape on a dime, and back up in order to re-play anything she might have missed. What she needed was a machine used for taking dictation. Like the machine I saw at my lawyer neighbor's house when I was a kid.  ................Ohhh....

LOL! Of course, that must have been a Dictaphone he was using when I saw him dictating some of his legalese!  (I'm a little slow.)

In light of that... um...  personal revelation, it seems to me that the FBI would have played back their tape(s) into a Dictaphone so that transcripts could be made. If so, again one has to wonder how the tape splices came to be notated in those transcripts.

 

[David Von Pein]

John Armstrong said:

Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig was searching the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository, when a rifle was discovered. Craig wrote, "...At that exact moment an unknown Dallas police officer came running up the stairs and advised Capt. Fritz that a Dallas policeman had been shot in the Oak Cliff area. I instinctively looked at my watch. The time was 1:06 PM."

The above info regarding Roger Craig only further shows what a l-i-a-r Craig was concerning various aspects of this murder case (assuming, that is, that John Armstrong has quoted Craig accurately). Just have a look at this other version of Craig's story pertaining to how he first found out about the shooting of Officer Tippit (which totally contradicts what Armstrong quoted above). The excerpt below comes from THIS 1968 NEWSPAPER ARTICLE ("RC" is Roger Craig)....

Edited January 2, 2019 by David Von Pein

[Jim Hargrove]

50 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

The only innocent reason I can think of for the FBI splicing tapes is if there was more audio than could fit on one tape. But even that doesn't makes sense because, if the tape recorder couldn't record such a long period of audio, then it also couldn't play such a long period. Unless a portable tape recorder was used for recoring and a reel-to-reel was used to play back.

But even that can't explain it. I checked through the transcript on McAdam's website and found tape splices that were less than 15 minutes apart.

I wonder how it came about that the tape splices were notated on the transcripts in the first place. I would think that the typist would simply play the tape and type what she heard. Not look at the tape for splices.

Actually, I doubt that a tape recorder/player was even used in making the transcripts... unless there were ones designed specifically for that purpose. Because the typist would have had to been able to stop and start the tape on a dime, and back up in order to re-play anything she might have missed. What she needed was a machine used for taking dictation. Like the machine I saw at my lawyer neighbor's house when I was a kid.  ................Ohhh....

LOL! Of course, that must have been a Dictaphone he was using when I saw him dictating some of his legalese!  (I'm a little slow.)

In light of that... um...  personal revelation, it seems to me that the FBI would have played back their tape(s) into a Dictaphone so that transcripts could be made. If so, again one has to wonder how the tape splices came to be notated in those transcripts.

Sandy,

Whether David has a point about Roger Craig or not, it is obvious that the timings recorded on the dictabelts were altered by the FBI.  Magnetic audio tapes were almost certainly involved as an intermediate step in the process of alteration.  The dictabelt recordings were similar to vinyl records, in that physical grooves were cut into the plastic by a needle which, in combination with a microphone, vibrated according to air pressure changes produced by audible sounds.

It was physically impossible to edit a dictabelt in any meaningful way.  Think of trying reorder the various tracks of a vinyl LP with a scalpel and glue.  There’s no way that will work.  But transfer the LP or dictabelt content to magnetic audio tape, and then it is easy to make edits merely by cutting and splicing together parts of the tape.  In the days before everything was digitized and stored electronically, this was the way music and the spoken word was commonly edited.

The listing of a “Tape splice” on the FBI transcript (CE1974) of the DPD radio broadcasts is strong evidence that the dictabelt content was transferred to audio tape, altered on tape, transferred back to dictabelts, and finally returned to the Dallas Police.  Why else involve audio tape?

As always, we are forced to try and discover the truth by analyzing the errors the FBI made in their cover-up efforts, and in a case this huge, it's obvious they made plenty of mistakes.

[James DiEugenio]

Davey:

As Sandy noted above, it does not mean one thing that you found a fruity postal worker to say what you wanted him to say.  

The point is, I live in California.  I know what it takes to deliver a letter in a big city--WITH ZIP CODES and censors etc.

I can mail a letter from say Long Beach to Chatsworth, and a lot of the time it will not get there in one day.  I know since I have done it. 

So saying, well it got on a plane and went there--that means little or nothing.

Its what happens before and after that counts.  

And what you are proposing simply will not pass the reality test, in state.  Forget going across the country.  That is pure fantasy land.

But, you spend a lot of time there.

[François Carlier]

Good morning, everybody. And Happy New Year ! 😉

[Sandy Larsen]

2 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

3 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Roger Craig's timing is problematic for both our 1:06 PM shooting time and the WC's 1:15 PM shooting time. It's much more problematic for the WC's timing because it shows that Craig heard of Tippit's shooting several minute before it officially occurred.

Not if the time was really 1:22 instead of 1:06 --- which is undoubtedly the reasonable answer.

 

Well sure, it's possible that Roger Craig's watch was off by 16 minutes. But it's MUCH more likely for a watch to be off by (our) 7 minutes than by (your) 16 minutes. The odds of each can easily be determined using an online probability calculator.

To do this we need to make one assumption. And that is, what percentage of watches are off by a given number of minutes. For example... Let's assume that half of all watches are off by two minutes or less. I did that, ran the calculations as detailed below, and got the following results:

Odds of a watch being correct:                 17.8%         (i.e. off by less than one minute.)
Odds of a watch being off by 1 minute:  16.9%
Odds of a watch being off by 2 minutes:  15.3%
Odds of a watch being off by 3 minutes:  13.1%
Odds of a watch being off by 4 minutes:  10.8%
Odds of a watch being off by 5 minutes:  8.4%
Odds of a watch being off by 6 minutes:  6.2%
Odds of a watch being off by 7 minutes:  4.3%
Odds of a watch being off by 8 minutes:  2.9%
Odds of a watch being off by 9 minutes:  1.8%
Odds of a watch being off by 10 minutes:  1.1%
Odds of a watch being off by 11 minutes:  0.64%
Odds of a watch being off by 12 minutes:  0.36%
Odds of a watch being off by 13 minutes:  0.33%
Odds of a watch being off by 14 minutes:  0.10%
Odds of a clock being off by 15 minutes:  0.04%
Odds of a clock being off by 16 minutes:  0.02%

Note that the odds of the watch being off by our 7 minutes are 4.3%, whereas the odds of it being off by your 16 minutes are only 0.02%. In other words, one out of 23 watches in the world is off by 7 minutes, and one out of 5000 watches is off by 16 minutes. (Well, back then anyway. Today's watches are very precise.)

It is therefore VERY HIGHLY unlikely that you are right in thinking that Craig's watch was off by 16 minutes. Our 7 minutes-off hypothesis is 215 times more likely to be true than your 16 minutes-off hypothesis.  (4.3% / 0.02% = 215)

 

Determining the Odds of a Watch Running Fast or Slow

The central limit theorem dictates that we use the normal distribution curve (bell curve) to calculate our probability values. I used this online calculator to determine the probabilities. I found that a standard deviation (SD) setting of 4.45 satisfied my assumption that half of all watches are off by two minutes or less.

I used only the right half of the normal curve, and then doubled each calculated probability to compensate. Note that the sum of the top three figures is indeed 50%, which satisfies my assumption. The sum of all the values is 100.09%. The unexpected 0.09% is due to rounding-off errors.

 

Edited January 2, 2019 by Sandy Larsen

[Sandy Larsen]

2 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

And don't you find it rather interesting that Craig's time of "1:06" perfectly matches Helen Markham's "1:06"? Odd coincidence, isn't it?

 

That's not so odd given the small time frame we are looking at. It's like having a dozen people throw a pair of dice and two of them getting the same numbers.

 

2 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

You do realize that Roger D. Craig is one of the few PROVABLE LIARS connected to the JFK case, don't you Sandy? There can be no doubt about that fact, as I prove in the article below....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2016/10/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1194.html

 

I haven't studied Roger Craig's story. But I do know that a lot of CTers believe him, and that what LNers see as a lie the CTers see as the truth.