A Lie Too Big To Fail by Lisa Pease

[James DiEugenio]

Ray:

You never read Moldea's book.

Towards the end, he tries to explain that whole thing away with one of the most wild, bizarre scenarios that I ever read.  I spent several pages breaking it apart and showing how absurd it was in The Assassinations.

I concluded that if one had to go to these lengths then it proved the contrary to what the author was proposing.

[Ray Mitcham]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Ray:

You never read Moldea's book.

Towards the end, he tries to explain that whole thing away with one of the most wild, bizarre scenarios that I ever read.  I spent several pages breaking it apart and showing how absurd it was in The Assassinations.

I concluded that if one had to go to these lengths then it proved the contrary to what the author was proposing.

Interesting Jim. I've never read his books and from the sound of it, I don't know whether I should.

[James DiEugenio]

I have never thought very much of Moldea as an author.

But his book on RFK was exceedingly bad.  He got really PO'd at me when that critique came out.

But I have a funny feeling that John Hunt is going to beat him up even worse in his posthumous book.

[Joe Bauer]

Moldea's wrong on the RFK/Sirhan case.

However I agree with his massive Mafia influence and Ronald Reagan take as described in the following video.

 

 

7:58

 

 

Moldea on MCA, the Mafia and the corruption of Ronald Reagan

 

Dan Moldea, author of the 1986 book, "Dark Victory: Ronald Reagan, MCA and the Mob," explains the corruption of Ronald ...

You would think RFK's family might have sued different entities regards the grossly negligent security failure provided for RFK.

Nazi leaning Thane Eugene Cesar ... OMG...now there's a qualified candidate for an assignment like RFK's security in a RFK hating city ( police department ) and super crowded tight place like the pantry.

Just hired cop wanna be Cesar should have never been given any assignments more challenging than a MacDonald's evening parking lot patrol.

The L.A. police department back then was heavily RFK hating on racial grounds.

I heard a tape once of an Ambassador Hotel employee ( a woman manager of some sort)  calling in the first reporting of the RFK shooting in their hotel to the police that evening.

The woman reported the shooting and then mentioned to this L.A.P.D. dispatcher that RFK was staying at the hotel.

This gruff sounding dispatcher ( male ) immediately responded to the caller's mention of RFK with this comment ..."BIG DEAL" ... in the most disparaging tone one could imagine.

It was sickening to hear this years later knowing that at least this L.A.P.D. employee could be so coldly unsympathetic to such a horrific and tragic crime against RFK.

 

Edited January 26, 2019 by Joe Bauer

[James DiEugenio]

IMO, one of the worst aspects of Moldea's book and a point I really took him apart on was his protection and excuses for Cesar.

With the latest research by Lisa and Von Pragg, Cesar was likely not the sole assassin.  But for Moldea to pull the stunt he did to try and get him off was pretty much beyond the pale.

[Ron Bulman]

This has probably been known by actual researchers among others for years but I don't remember reading about before.  On page 400 it's mentioned that the CIA code names for JFK, RFK and Oswald were GPIDEAL, GPFOCUS and GPFLOOR.  This particular bit is not referenced.  Were they created after each was dead?  If beforehand at what point?  They claimed to have nothing on 11/22/63 but a skimpy 201 file on Oswald created well past the start of his Russia activities.  Why would the need a code name for him prior to then?  What does the common GP stand for?  I can kind of see the Ideal, and the Focus (stay focused on him, he might run for president?), but would floor indicate that Oswald was supposed to be on the sixth floor, or the first floor???

[Ron Bulman]

Cesar, Thane Eugene, deserves a little, maybe lot, more attention.  Somewhere I read still alive in Australia?   Should be extradited for questioning.  Holding RFK's right arm leading him through the pantry when he was shot from that side 3x in the body.  Three witnesses saw him with his gun out, one firing.  Ignored, suppressed by LAPD in 3 interviews of him.

[Micah Mileto]

4 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Cesar, Thane Eugene, deserves a little, maybe lot, more attention.  Somewhere I read still alive in Australia?   Should be extradited for questioning.  Holding RFK's right arm leading him through the pantry when he was shot from that side 3x in the body.  Three witnesses saw him with his gun out, one firing.  Ignored, suppressed by LAPD in 3 interviews of him.

Heavy.com suggests that he is/was still living in California.

[Gene Kelly]

Further comment on Lisa's book, specifically the polka dot girl mystery:

Lisa does a good job establishing that there were many operatives at play, as well as elaborating upon the mind control aspect of Sirhan's manipulation. There were at least 4-5 people observed with "polka dots" ... on ties, scarves, and most famously dresses.  This is suggested as both a trigger mechanism for Sirhan's controlled state, and an identification signal amongst the operatives.

There are several candidates for the Polka Dot girl - it seems there was more than just one at play - and there were many witnesses (almost 20) beyond just Sandra Serrano who saw her with Sirhan, and commented on her odd behavior. Yet in the trial, the prosecution, with the aid of the defense team, cleverly manipulated the young witness Vincent DiPierro into establishing Valerie Schute as the mysterious female, even though she didn't at all resemble the individual described by so many others (Schulte had blonde hair, was on crutches, and wore a lime green dress with yellow splotches). Lisa's later interview of an older Vincent DiPierro demonstrates that he was intimidated by LAPD, and later feared for his life. DiPierro hinted at some sort of deal he made with the FBI to stick with the Schulte identification. There was a bar downstairs at the Ambassador Hotel that apparently served as a staging area from which to “launch” the patsy (Sirhan), and the inference is that Sirhan was drugged as well as programmed … right out of the Artichoke Playbook. In fact, there may have been more than one patsy (or Sirhan doppelganger) to attack RFK from either downstairs or upstairs, depending upon his post-speech path.  Lisa mentions the untimely death, allegedly from an overdose of sleeping pills in a motel in April 1969,  (as the trial was beginning) of Cathy Sue Fulmer (or Sandy Rossi) who was at the Ambassador with a green scarf with orange polka dots. Fulmer had been observed in conversation with the more shapely polka dot female and the mysterious tall male with blonde hair in a gold sweater. Lisa found a 3/20/69 interview of one Ernie Johnson which was suppressed by LAPD (like most of the evidence concerning the polka dot female), who stated that he saw the two women arguing in the pantry, earlier in the evening.

It’s thought provoking that there were many individuals sporting the polka dot "signal", but no pictures have ever surfaced to record their presence. Twenty years later, in 1988, we were informed that that 2,410 police photographs from the case had been burned in August 1968. The Polka Dot girl(s) is an obvious participant in the operation, but also appears to be an intentional distraction ... meant to stand out, to be observed/heard. The LAPD and FBI had no genuine (public) intention of finding her, officially concluded she was mistaken for Valerie Schulte, and that she never existed. This is not credible, when all of the witness evidence is considered, including the discredited testimony of John Fahey, the man who picked up (or was picked up by) the operative in the polka-dot dress and spent the day of the assassination with her. She was meant to create false leads and confusion (i.e. cognitive dissonance) ...  one of the hallmarks of a psychological operation.

 

[Ron Bulman]

10 hours ago, Micah Mileto said:

Heavy.com suggests that he is/was still living in California.

Interesting.  I thought Gene or somebody posted earlier in this thread about him moving to Australia.  In looking for more info on line about Cesar I found references in a JFK Murder Solved forum where "Bob" comments about him moving to the Philippines but there's no source, and, a google groups page mentions the same in it's title but noting about it on  the page.

In looking I did come across this:

https://kennedysandking.com/robert-f-kennedy-articles/ted-charach-s-press-conference-thane-eugene-cesar-s-gun-found

This guy (Charach, not the article author) taped members of the mossad  implying they knew about the cia using Sirhan?

Cesar's gun found in an Arkansas pond??? 

[Ron Bulman]

12 hours ago, Micah Mileto said:

Heavy.com suggests that he is/was still living in California.

In this heavy.com article it mentions him living in the Simi valley but also "declaring bankruptcy in 1994 and subsequently moving to the Philippines."  In one of these articles I read about him moving there to live with his daughter, who was contacted, and said that he didn't give interviews anymore.

What really caught my eye in the article is in the youtube video near the bottom of the page in part 5 of the article.  Starting at 1:36, as he is heading through the pantry on his way in to give his speech, you see RFK stop and sign the rolled up poster for Michael Wayne, in the black sweater.  Just like Lisa says in the book.  There is a slight resemblance to Sirhan, short, slender, dark bushy hair. 

https://heavy.com/news/2018/05/thane-eugene-cesar/

 

Edited January 29, 2019 by Ron Bulman

[Ron Bulman]

Here's a direct link to the video of RFK signing Wayne's poster, again, start at 1:36.  RFK's last autograph?

 

 

[Ron Bulman]

8 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Interesting.  I thought Gene or somebody posted earlier in this thread about him moving to Australia.  In looking for more info on line about Cesar I found references in a JFK Murder Solved forum where "Bob" comments about him moving to the Philippines but there's no source, and, a google groups page mentions the same in it's title but noting about it on  the page.

In looking I did come across this:

https://kennedysandking.com/robert-f-kennedy-articles/ted-charach-s-press-conference-thane-eugene-cesar-s-gun-found

This guy (Charach, not the article author) taped members of the mossad  implying they knew about the cia using Sirhan?

Cesar's gun found in an Arkansas pond??? 

Getting back to Cesar.  Pg. 213 (Maitre D Ucker  walking in front of RFK to his right who bent Sirhan over backwards on the steam table after the second shot} "Many witnesses behind me missed the guard behind me pull his weapon".  214, Schulman, runner for LA tv CBS KNXT interviewed that night "seen a guard pull his gun and fire, Kennedy hit three times."  Schulman later interviewed Cesar:  right wing, didn't like Kennedy's.  Cesar lied.  Said he sold his gun before the assassination, had receipt for sale dated afterwards.  215,  Schulman 1971, adamant, saw at least Three guns in the pantry, reiterated 1975.  272 Every time Cesar talked about it his story changed.  Three witnesses saw him pull his gun, Don Schulman, Lisa Urso, and Richard Lubick.  Lubick was told by the LAPD, don't bring this up.  273 Jesus Perez saw a different gun than the one he was shown taken from Sirhan.  Then we get into Meier - Hughes - Maheu.

[Micah Mileto]

23 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Getting back to Cesar.  Pg. 213 (Maitre D Ucker  walking in front of RFK to his right who bent Sirhan over backwards on the steam table after the second shot} "Many witnesses behind me missed the guard behind me pull his weapon".  214, Schulman, runner for LA tv CBS KNXT interviewed that night "seen a guard pull his gun and fire, Kennedy hit three times."  Schulman later interviewed Cesar:  right wing, didn't like Kennedy's.  Cesar lied.  Said he sold his gun before the assassination, had receipt for sale dated afterwards.  215,  Schulman 1971, adamant, saw at least Three guns in the pantry, reiterated 1975.  272 Every time Cesar talked about it his story changed.  Three witnesses saw him pull his gun, Don Schulman, Lisa Urso, and Richard Lubick.  Lubick was told by the LAPD, don't bring this up.  273 Jesus Perez saw a different gun than the one he was shown taken from Sirhan.  Then we get into Meier - Hughes - Maheu.

http://rfktapes.com/bonus-follow-the-lies/

 

http://rfktapes.com/bonus-ep-4-transcript/

BILL: The standard argument against Cesar being the guy who shot Kennedy was that Cesar was supposedly carrying a .38 caliber pistol, while the bullets in Kennedy’s back were from a .22. But Cesar did own a .22. And although he was interviewed the night of the murder, there is no record of anyone inspecting his gun to see what caliber it was, or if it had been fired. But maybe someone did.

DANIEL JENSEN: And the next night at roll call, now remember this is just a bunch of cops sitting around talking, that’s when the discussion came up of the second gun.

BILL: In Zac’s interview with officer Daniel Jensen, Jensen said that he heard other cops talking about extra bullets and about a security guard who had carried a .22.

JENSEN: I don’t remember exactly they found one or two many bullet holes. The guy had a .22, it was a 7 shot or a 9 shot, but there were too many bullet holes.

ZAC: Sirhan’s gun held 8 shots.

JENSEN: So that means if he had 8, they found 10 the way I recall. There were two, too many bullet holes. But remember, I’m hearing all this stuff, locker room talk, and one of the officers was saying that the security guard had a .22 which is an unusual gun to carry and the cops started speculating. You know what, I bet he capped off some rounds.

BILL: This is an extraordinary conversation. Of course, it’s not proof of anything, it’s just, as Jensen says, “locker room talk.” But if this is true, it greatly strengthens the case against Cesar. And if Cesar did it, I can’t tell you why he sounds innocent. Some people are just wired that way. Or maybe someone messed with his mind. The evidence of a second gun is not limited to extra bullets in the door frames, or the suspicions around Gene Cesar. There are wounds in Robert Kennedy that are seriously inconsistent with his position relative to Sirhan. According to the autopsy, the four bullets that struck Kennedy were all fired an inch or two away. Three of them were fired at a steep upward angle. Most reliable witnesses put Sirhan’s gun in front of Kennedy and a foot and a half to three feet away when the shooting started. It is possible that Kennedy turned at the last moment, and it is possible that Sirhan lunged, closing the distance to create a contact shot. But given the existing evidence, I believe it’s near impossible for Sirhan to get four shots into Kennedy’s back at contact range and at a steep upward angle.

Maitre d’ Karl Uecker has said repeatedly that he grabbed Sirhan’s wrist after the first two shots, then wrestled him down to the steam table, where Sirhan began to fire again. Nine other witnesses said they pretty much heard the same thing: two shots, a pause, and then a volley of shots. If all that’s true, where in that sequence can Sirhan fire four shots into the back of Kennedy at a steep upward angle? This one goes right by the police, so I want to credit Dan Moldea for recognizing this problem and trying to deal with it. I just don’t agree with how he solves it.

 

[Ron Bulman]

On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 11:48 PM, Ron Bulman said:

Getting back to Cesar.  Pg. 213 (Maitre D Ucker  walking in front of RFK to his right who bent Sirhan over backwards on the steam table after the second shot} "Many witnesses behind me missed the guard behind me pull his weapon".  214, Schulman, runner for LA tv CBS KNXT interviewed that night "seen a guard pull his gun and fire, Kennedy hit three times."  Schulman later interviewed Cesar:  right wing, didn't like Kennedy's.  Cesar lied.  Said he sold his gun before the assassination, had receipt for sale dated afterwards.  215,  Schulman 1971, adamant, saw at least Three guns in the pantry, reiterated 1975.  272 Every time Cesar talked about it his story changed.  Three witnesses saw him pull his gun, Don Schulman, Lisa Urso, and Richard Lubick.  Lubick was told by the LAPD, don't bring this up.  273 Jesus Perez saw a different gun than the one he was shown taken from Sirhan.  Then we get into Meier - Hughes - Maheu.

John Meier was one of the few people who could actually see and talk to Howard Hughes at the time as he became more and more of a recluse.  A trusted associate of more than a dozen years.  "Ex" CIA agent Robert Maheu, head of Hughes security also had access to him.  Meier had been introduced to Cesar in Las Vegas by Hooper, an associate of Maheu.   After the assassination Meier heard Cesar's name in a news report, he mentioned this to another associate of Maheu.  The next day Maheu reprimanded Meier, telling him he must never mention that Cesar had worked for him at Bel Air Patrol before the assassination.  Meier told this to Lisa Pease and David Talbot, along with more in an interview just within the last few years.  While writing the book Lisa used two public records on line data base services to inquire about Cesar.  Both listed him as a CIA contract agent.  One responded to an inquiry regarding sources for the claim with "general" sources, land records, marketing surveys...  The other never responded.  In the 70's Cesar himself told the LAPD he worked for Hughes Aircraft.