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Jake Hammond

The turn on to Elm ...

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Initially this was going to be a question to LNers , along the lines of ‘ how do you explain the destruction, damage or cutting of several of the video and images showing the turn on to Elm?’ . Before inserting ones foot  in ones mouth however it may be prudent to ask if anyone knows of an good image showing this ? There is one I believe but it’s cropped quite tightly on the lower part of the car . Also , is there any GOOD evidence of the Z film been seen by people avec le turn ? 

Thank you

Edited by Jake Hammond

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32 minutes ago, Rich Pope said:

Jake,

 

All I know is that the turn onto Elm was edited out of the Z-film because the limo was too long for such a tight turn it almost jumped the curb.  The FBI didn't want this shown to the public because again, another mess-up by the Secret Service.  It would be the first of two times the limo almost came to a complete stop.

That's total rubbish !
The Zapruder film was never edited out.
Why are you trying to mislead the American public ?

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On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 11:00 AM, Jake Hammond said:

Initially this was going to be a question to LNers , along the lines of ‘ how do you explain the destruction, damage or cutting of several of the video and images showing the turn on to Elm?’ . Before inserting ones foot  in ones mouth however it may be prudent to ask if anyone knows of an good image showing this ? There is one I believe but it’s cropped quite tightly on the lower part of the car . Also , is there any GOOD evidence of the Z film been seen by people avec le turn ? 

Thank you

Have you seen the Robert Hughes film ?

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Mr. C...

You have no more a franchise on the authenticity of the Zapruder film than anyone else...  

the extant film has no less than 7 splices in it...

you trying to prove THIS FILM was never edited ???

There is over 45 feet of film from one side of a 30 foot reel... (25' plus leader times an A and B side)

If the film was not edited.. it would be a single, continuous 25 feet of film...  

So please.. you can stop insulting the collective intelligence of this body by claiming something which is provably false...

Zavada%20film%20map%20-%20original%20Zfi

 

With regards to the STOP/START at 132....  with no light bleed like frames 001 - 004 the segue from 132 to 133 is a SPLICE

5a9d8a6e28b27_z001-133-135stopstartanalysis.thumb.jpg.6cf629656f6e07391740e06f92c07934.jpg

Mr. BELIN. The street leading to the expressway, that diagonal street? 
Mr. TRULY. That is right.
And the President's car following close behind came along at an average speed of 10 or 15 miles an hour. It wasn't that much, because they were getting ready to turn. And the driver of the Presidential car swung out too far to the right, and he came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment here, between Elm and the Parkway. And he slowed down perceptibly and pulled back to the left to get over into the middle lane of the parkway. Not being familiar with the street, he came too far out this way when he made his turn. 
Mr. BELIN. He came too far to the north before he made his curve, and as he curved--as he made his left turn from Houston onto the street leading to the expressway, he almost hit this north curb? 
Mr. TRULY. That is right. Just before he got to it, he had to almost stop, to pull over to the left.
If he had maintained his speed, he would probably have hit this little section here. 

Mr. BELIN. All right.

 

And FC... when and if you can ever learn the significance of POSITION A and why it would be included in the reenactments... you might actually learn something...

then again, you aint gonna learn what you dont wanna know....

 

 

1964_FBI_REENACTMENT_%20Position%20A_zps

 

Edited by David Josephs

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6 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Mr. C...

You have no more a franchise on the authenticity of the Zapruder film than anyone else...  

the extant film has no less than 7 splices in it...

you trying to prove THIS FILM was never edited ???

There is over 45 feet of film from one side of a 30 foot reel... (25' plus leader times an A and B side)

If the film was not edited.. it would be a single, continuous 25 feet of film...  

So please.. you can stop insulting the collective intelligence of this body by claiming something which is provably false...

Zavada%20film%20map%20-%20original%20Zfi

 

With regards to the STOP/START at 132....  with no light bleed like frames 001 - 004 the segue from 132 to 133 is a SPLICE

5a9d8a6e28b27_z001-133-135stopstartanalysis.thumb.jpg.6cf629656f6e07391740e06f92c07934.jpg

Mr. BELIN. The street leading to the expressway, that diagonal street? 
Mr. TRULY. That is right.
And the President's car following close behind came along at an average speed of 10 or 15 miles an hour. It wasn't that much, because they were getting ready to turn. And the driver of the Presidential car swung out too far to the right, and he came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment here, between Elm and the Parkway. And he slowed down perceptibly and pulled back to the left to get over into the middle lane of the parkway. Not being familiar with the street, he came too far out this way when he made his turn. 
Mr. BELIN. He came too far to the north before he made his curve, and as he curved--as he made his left turn from Houston onto the street leading to the expressway, he almost hit this north curb? 
Mr. TRULY. That is right. Just before he got to it, he had to almost stop, to pull over to the left.
If he had maintained his speed, he would probably have hit this little section here. 

Mr. BELIN. All right.

 

And FC... when and if you can ever learn the significance of POSITION A and why it would be included in the reenactments... you might actually learn something...

then again, you aint gonna learn what you dont wanna know....

 

 

1964_FBI_REENACTMENT_%20Position%20A_zps

 

Sure, sure, Mister I-know-best Josephs, the Zapruder film was faked. OK. And the backyard photos were faked too. And the autopsy x-rays were faked too. And there were two Oswalds. etc.…
You know best.
Just one little question : the lady in pink who was in the limousine : was it the real Jackie or was it a look-alike ? Please tell me. I'd like to know.

Edited by François Carlier

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7 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Mr. C...

You have no more a franchise on the authenticity of the Zapruder film than anyone else...  

the extant film has no less than 7 splices in it...

you trying to prove THIS FILM was never edited ???

There is over 45 feet of film from one side of a 30 foot reel... (25' plus leader times an A and B side)

If the film was not edited.. it would be a single, continuous 25 feet of film...  

So please.. you can stop insulting the collective intelligence of this body by claiming something which is provably false...

Zavada%20film%20map%20-%20original%20Zfi

 

With regards to the STOP/START at 132....  with no light bleed like frames 001 - 004 the segue from 132 to 133 is a SPLICE

5a9d8a6e28b27_z001-133-135stopstartanalysis.thumb.jpg.6cf629656f6e07391740e06f92c07934.jpg

Mr. BELIN. The street leading to the expressway, that diagonal street? 
Mr. TRULY. That is right.
And the President's car following close behind came along at an average speed of 10 or 15 miles an hour. It wasn't that much, because they were getting ready to turn. And the driver of the Presidential car swung out too far to the right, and he came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment here, between Elm and the Parkway. And he slowed down perceptibly and pulled back to the left to get over into the middle lane of the parkway. Not being familiar with the street, he came too far out this way when he made his turn. 
Mr. BELIN. He came too far to the north before he made his curve, and as he curved--as he made his left turn from Houston onto the street leading to the expressway, he almost hit this north curb? 
Mr. TRULY. That is right. Just before he got to it, he had to almost stop, to pull over to the left.
If he had maintained his speed, he would probably have hit this little section here. 

Mr. BELIN. All right.

 

And FC... when and if you can ever learn the significance of POSITION A and why it would be included in the reenactments... you might actually learn something...

then again, you aint gonna learn what you dont wanna know....

 

 

1964_FBI_REENACTMENT_%20Position%20A_zps

 

And to think that Robert Groden has kept repeating for years that the Zapruder film is genuine ! He's probably working for the CIA ! 😉

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7 minutes ago, François Carlier said:

Sure, sure, Mister I-know-best Josephs, the Zapruder film was faked. OK. And the backyard photos were faked too. And the autopsy x-rays were faked too. And there were two Oswalds. etc.…
You know best.
Just one little question : the lady in pink who was in the limousine : was it the real Jackie or was it a look-alike ? Please tell me. I'd like to know.

Let's see...

I offer proof with a logical arguments

'

'

'

and you offer opinions.. tautologies and ad hominem .  :pop

Mr. G didn't get his copy before the 24th of Nov... so how again would he know what happened to the film before he gets to it?

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19 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Let's see...

I offer proof with a logical arguments

'

'

'

and you offer opinions.. tautologies and ad hominem .  :pop

Mr. G didn't get his copy before the 24th of Nov... so how again would he know what happened to the film before he gets to it?

No, I don't think that you have "offered proof" at all, mind you.
As for me, I have written a book in which dozens of pages are devoted to explaining why I think that the Zapruder film is authentic. No ad hominem at all, as none is needed.
I'm not sure that I understand your sentence beginning with "Mister G". Are you refering to Robert Groden that way ? Well, the the-Zapruder-film-is-fake issue is now 22 years old. Everybody has had ample time to think about it, review the books, listen to the arguments, separate facts from fiction, listen to the real experts, and reach a conclusion.
One think I know : in 1996, I was in Dallas and I -- having registred to both the Copa conference and the Lancer conference, and having talked to Jim Fetzer and David Mantik, and knowing that Robert Groden would do a presentation for COPA in the evening -- invited Fetzer and Mantik to come along and say what they had to say. I was there. I took pictures. Groden started his speech and said to the audience that the Zapruder film was genuine. Jim Fetzer, sitting in the audience, then started to shout and claim that the Zapruder film was a fake. Groden then suggested that Fetzer take the stand and prove his point. What did he do ? He fled. Mantik too. They ran away. Groden gave them an opportunity to prove their point, but the chose to run away. That's a true story. I was not only there, I am the one who suggested that Fetzer and Mantik, who were speakers at the Lancer conference but had not registered to the COPA conference, come to the Groden COPA conference that I had planned to attend.
Anyway. Since then you and your friends have had the time to prove your case. But to this day, even James DiEugenio -- who, no doubt, believes in a conspiracy -- doesn't want to give an opinion on the topic. He is not convinced. That's saying a lot.
I'm sorry to disappoint you but so far, you, Mister Josephs, have not proved that the Zapruder film is faked. 
I'm afraid you are deluding yourself.
I'd love to attend a conference on the Zapruder film with people like you, Lifton, Groden and others as speakers. Honestly.
That topic needs to have a definitive answer. (And I suspect you'll end up in the "I was wrong" group…)

Edited by François Carlier

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- How again is a film in 8 pieces - unaltered or unedited?

:huh:

 

"I'm sorry to disappoint you but so far, you, Mister Josephs, have not proved that the Zapruder film is faked"

edit - I never said it was faked... we are talking about editing or altering... focus please.

Edited by David Josephs

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2 hours ago, Rich Pope said:

The Zapruder film is not faked, it has been tampered with.  There's a difference.  Frames were removed in more than one place.  

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2016/04/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1117.html#The-Missing-Frames-Of-The-Zapruder-Film

1967 Audio Clip Featuring Wesley Liebeler Discussing How 4 Frames Of The Zapruder Film Were Accidentally Damaged By LIFE Magazine

---------------------------------

"But, just like they do with all of the assassination evidence, conspiracists like Jim DiEugenio have to add in a nonexistent layer of "cover-up" when it comes to the topic of the "missing Z-Film frames". But that's what conspiracy theorists do best — they invent sinister activity where none exists. SOP for CTers." -- DVP; April 3, 2016

 

Edited by David Von Pein

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51 minutes ago, Rich Pope said:

Do you believe that the Z-Film SHOULD have contained the president's limo making the difficult turn onto Elm Street? 

No. Definitely not.

 

Quote

Why would he film the limo coming down Houston, stop filming the turn, and then resume the filming once the turn was made?

I don't think Abraham Zapruder did film all those things you just mentioned. I think he filmed the lead motorcycles (which were well ahead of JFK's car), he then stopped filming when he realized the President's car was nowhere in sight yet, and he then resumed filming after JFK's limo had straightened out on Elm Street (which is Z133). He never filmed the limousine on Houston Street at all.

Also....

Can any CTer here tell us exactly WHY anyone would have wanted to remove any Z-Film frames that show the limo PRIOR to Z-frame 133? Nobody had actually been HIT by any bullets as of Z133. So what's the purpose of needing those frames removed (even from the POV of a CTer, or a "conspirator")?

Edited by David Von Pein

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Didn't Abraham Zapruder himself authenticate his film at the Clay Shaw trial ?
Whatever more do you need ?
That film was not faked, nor edited, nor anything.

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7 hours ago, David Josephs said:

edit - I never said it was faked... we are talking about editing or altering... focus please.

If I misquoted you, I apologize. My mistake.
Now, tell us for good : do you claim that the Zapruder film was faked, or not ?
 

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7 hours ago, François Carlier said:

If I misquoted you, I apologize. My mistake.
Now, tell us for good : do you claim that the Zapruder film was faked, or not ?
 

Faked? No.

Altered and edited... yes. 

......

Now you answer... the copy to Rowley in DC.... what happens to this copy after viewed in DC early morning Saturday?

what role did Abe’s partner play in all this and what does he say...

when do YOU think Hawkeyeworks has any film with which to work?

finally, you aware what Mrs. Z tells us about Friday night?

I look forward to real answers JC... 

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