Oswald was not in MC

[Robert Card]

Pretty good article from Frontline.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/oswald-the-cia-and-mexico-city/

if you were working on the Oswald Project, wouldn't you keep some doubles and impersonators around?  Is this who went to Mexico?

this would answer the Prayer Man problem, too. 

[James DiEugenio]

BA:

There were three people who taped it.  One was Len Osanic.

He played one of his tapes, that of David Josephs, about ten days ago.

I think he will be playing them one by one over time.

Max Good also taped it, he may put his on Vimeo.  I will let you know if he does. 

 

PS: Robert, that article was written by John Newman in 2003.  

Edited January 12, 2019 by James DiEugenio

[François Carlier]

15 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

First of all, this was not a 2013 Frontline documentary FC.

It was a repeat of the 1993 PBS documentary Who was Lee Harvey Oswald?

This documentary was produced by its two lead consultants, Gus Russo and Dale Myers.  And if that is not enough, how about this:

Dale Myers always said that they did not go into this with a point of view.  They were going to let the chips fall where they may.  

HA HA HA!

Well when the Frontline producer Mike Sullivan died, Myers noted his death and finally spilled the beans on his own BS.  He said Sullivan had decided at the start that Oswald was the chief and only suspect  and that is what they would use as their investigative guideline.

So how can one trust a guy like that, plus Mr. Single Bullet fact Dale Myers, and Russo?

The only thing this show really did for the good is that it showed the photo of LHO and Ferrie at the CAP cookout.  The picture that Ferrie was frantically looking for in the days after the assassination.  So he could lie his head off to the FBI about not knowing Oswald.  But Russo and Myers and Sullivan left all that out.

This show marked two milestones.  First, that PBS was now in the pocket of the Power Elite, at least on the JFK case.  If you recall, PBS  later went on to do that horrendous Cold Case Nova program. Which tells us about their funding problems ever since the Reagan years.  And second, with it, Russo and Myers now proved they could be trusted by the MSM as cover up artists and they went on to future employment for anniversary specials e.g. Peter Jennings and Tom Brokaw.  

I mean c'mon, a jerk like Epstein who says that Oswald joined the Marines so he could get a gun?

I mean, when you are getting your butt hand to you, you get desperate right FC?

 

 

 

"If you don't like the message, kill the messenger"...
Apparently that's the way you work, Mister DiEugenio.
Did I talk about Dale Myers ? No. Did I talk about Gus Russo ? No.
I simply, and accurately, and reasonably mentionned the witnesses who saw Oswald in Mexico City.
I talked about people who saw and recognized Oswald and even talked to him.
I should remind everybody that you were not there, Jospehs was not there and Larsen was not there.
That's all I have to say.

So I'll repeat :
David Josephs was not in the bus, but he thinks that he knows better than the people who were in the bus ;
He was not at the Cuban embassy, but he thinks that he knows better than the woman who was there ;
He was not at the Soviet embassy, but he thinks that he knows better than the men who were there.
They all say that they saw Oswald ? To Josephs, it means that Oswald was not there…
Go figure !

"Come see the great magician, David Joseph, the man who knows what happens when he is not there !!!!!!!!!!!!"

Edited January 12, 2019 by François Carlier

[Sandy Larsen]

29 minutes ago, François Carlier said:

I simply, and accurately, and reasonably mentionned the witnesses who saw Oswald in Mexiso City.

What witnesses saw Oswald in Mexico City? You mean the ones who saw the short blond guy, Duran and Azcue?

Oswald wasn't blond. And he wasn't short by 1960s standards. They didn't see Oswald at all, they saw an imposter.

 

Edited January 12, 2019 by Sandy Larsen

[James DiEugenio]

Sandy:

Sometimes FC is cognitively challenged.  You know, all that critical thinking gets to you.

He ignores all the things I said that make this documentary not trustworthy.  And then he says trust it anyway.

David Josephs explains why the two girls on the bus down cannot be taken at face value.  And I linked to his essay showing why.

Everyone knows that in the declassified HSCA interview Duran said that the man was about 5' 5" tall.  And I already noted that.

Now, because this show does not include this information and essentially goes by the WC version, FC wants us to buy into it.  You know, that critical thinking of his.

 

[François Carlier]

11 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

David Josephs explains why …

"David Josephs said…", "David Mantik said…", "Greg Parker said…", etc.
The sources you always use…
I'm disappointed in you.
And please, stop focusing on that documentary. The witnesses who claim to have seen Oswald and talked to him (for God's sake) have told their stories several times, and officially (not only in that documentary).
So, as I myself was not in Mexico City then, I have to rely on all those witnesses (who did not know each other, by the way, so I know they did not conspire to tell lies to law enforcement officers). 
They saw Oswald. They talked to him. They remember him. They have no reason to lie. Their stories fit the available evidence.
That's fine by me.
I do not fall into the conspiracy trap, namely : "Consider yourself more intelligent than everybody else, accuse everybody of being a xxxx, put all evidence aside, and claim you know better and you have seen the light and the truth is the total opposite of what was known so far".
No, I'll definitely never say such things.
 

[John Butler]

DiEugenio says:

"Everyone knows that in the declassified HSCA interview Duran said that the man was about 5' 5" tall.  And I already noted that."

This is my candidate for any short Oswald sightings.  If you analyze the height differences in the two photos the Oswald figure with the red arrow point is about 5 foot 5 or 6.  He looks to be to much like LHO to be seen in Mexico City. 

[Denny Zartman]

My question would be: was Oswald's Mexico City visit fabricated at the time, or concocted after the assassination?

Lyndon Johnson said to Richard Russell that he (Johnson) was only able to convince a very reluctant Earl Warren to chair the Commission by mentioning "what Hoover told me about a little incident in Mexico City..."

[James DiEugenio]

FC:

The guy they talked to was not Oswald.  Oswald was not short and blonde OK.  And why do you keep on bringing David Mantik to this?  What has Mantik ever written about Mexico City?

Josephs' article is profusely footnoted with primary documents.  If you do not want to read it, fine.  But do not comment on it unless you have.

Denny:

That is a good question.  I am beginning to lean toward the idea that the short, blonde guy was the person masquerading as LHO, but afterwards the CIA set up some phony evidence (transcripts) , and then Ochoa and Echeverria put together the false trail on the buses.

[Cory Santos]

On 1/4/2019 at 5:07 PM, François Carlier said:

Conspiracy theorists who want to deny some event know how to always (dishonestly) win the argument :
- if there is no picture, they'll say that it proves it didn't happen
- if there is a picture, they'll say that the picture was faked
Easy, isn't it ?

Did anyone hear something?  No?  Didnt think so.  Cliff how is the weather up north?

[Paul Brancato]

2 hours ago, Cory Santos said:

Did anyone hear something?  No?  Didnt think so.  Cliff how is the weather up north?

Let me clarify something. The absence of pictures of Oswald in MC is extremely telling. How some theorist would view such a picture is besides the point. Not all of us think the Zapruder film has been altered. We do not walk in lockstep. The CIA is not keeping a photo of Oswald in MC hidden because they know we would collectively disbelieve it was real. They didn’t keep the Zapruder film from the public because they were worried someone would prove it was altered. There is no photo of Oswald in MC, and that’s one photo that they would desperately like to present in support of their conspiracy theory that Oswald was a Lone nut assassin. That should be perfectly obvious to you Mr. Carter

[Cory Santos]

Well said Paul.

[Sandy Larsen]

Had the CIA plotters planted photos of the real Oswald and phone conversations of a guy whose voice could pass for Oswald's in their Mexico City surveillance data, the FBI investigation would not have discovered the (fabricated) Oswald/Cuban/Russian conspiracy to kill the president.

I believe that the plotters intentionally used non-Oswald photos and phone transcriptions in order to tip off the FBI assassination investigation to the (fabricated) fact that Oswald was involved in a conspiracy. And that they used KGB officer Nikolai S. Leonov's photo to bolster the case for Russian conspiracy. They even had a Leonov look-alike (rather than an Oswald look-alike) appear at the Cuban Consulate to support the surveillance photo of him.

 

[B. A. Copeland]

On 1/11/2019 at 7:52 PM, James DiEugenio said:

BA:

There were three people who taped it.  One was Len Osanic.

He played one of his tapes, that of David Josephs, about ten days ago.

I think he will be playing them one by one over time.

Max Good also taped it, he may put his on Vimeo.  I will let you know if he does. 

 

PS: Robert, that article was written by John Newman in 2003.  

Thanks Jim.

[James DiEugenio]

On this week's Black Op Radio, I comment on this issue briefly since Len was at the private Gary Aguilar seminar in San Fran and he previously played the David Josephs presentation.

 

I think I have said this before, but in a nutshell what I think David is ultimately going to do is redefine the whole Mexico City scenario.  He is going to do it based upon the latest documents that the CIA did not want to declassify.  I believe that in the end, these will be the new tenets of MC:

1. Oswald was not in Mexico City.

2. The short blonde guy did the charade.

3. Ochoa and Echeverria set up the phony transportation materials up and back.

4. Phillips worked on the tapes and transcripts  at the embassies, with Goodpasture covering up for him.

5.  Once Hoover finally did some work in this area, he understood that is was all a pile of paper mache.  He admitted this in private but not in public.