David Josephs Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 So FC, Never mind the fact a CIA operative misinforms HQ about the date and time of these photos in an attempt to place Oswald there on Oct 1st... Never mind that outside of DURAN/AZCUE (who say the man was not the man Ruby killed) and the evidence provided by the highest placed FBI asset at Gobernacion there is not one shred of authenticated evidence which places our man Ozzie in Mexico. Never mind that one of the most valuable CIA double-agent assets in the Cuban Embassy does not corroborate Never mind that the one story about Oswald taking $6500 from a red-headed negro comes from a CIA asset from Nicauragua Never mind that the few English speaking people on these buses are placed on a different bus than which the FBI puts Oswald. You know what FC... never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, François Carlier said: The evidence of Oswald being in Mexico City is overwhelming Please.... post what you have FC.... Can you do something other than just showing how shallow your thoughts and opinions are...? How again does he get there and back... I'm all ears... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
François Carlier Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 12 minutes ago, David Josephs said: Please.... post what you have FC.... Can you do something other than just showing how shallow your thoughts and opinions are...? How again does he get there and back... I'm all ears... Do you have a problem ? Can't you just debate without insulting ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
François Carlier Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 16 minutes ago, David Josephs said: So FC, Never mind the fact a CIA operative misinforms HQ about the date and time of these photos in an attempt to place Oswald there on Oct 1st... Never mind that outside of DURAN/AZCUE (who say the man was not the man Ruby killed) and the evidence provided by the highest placed FBI asset at Gobernacion there is not one shred of authenticated evidence which places our man Ozzie in Mexico. Never mind that one of the most valuable CIA double-agent assets in the Cuban Embassy does not corroborate Never mind that the one story about Oswald taking $6500 from a red-headed negro comes from a CIA asset from Nicauragua Never mind that the few English speaking people on these buses are placed on a different bus than which the FBI puts Oswald. You know what FC... never mind. I could rapidly quote what David Von Pein has summed up : I quote :"The proof that Lee Oswald went to Mexico and visited the Cuban and Soviet embassies in Mexico City is multi-layered and multi-faceted -- HIS picture on the Cuban application, HIS signature on multiple documents (including the hotel guest register), HIS own letter to the Soviet Embassy dated Nov. 9th, Marina's testimony, Silvia Duran, the officials at the Soviet Embassy, and the witnesses on the bus. The evidence is a mile deep." (David Von Pein)" But I could emulate you : - Never mind that his picture was on the Cuban application- Never mind that he signed several documents- Never mind that he wrote a letter himself about his trip- Never mind what his own wife said- Never mind what Sylvia Duran testified to- Never mind what the Soviet embassy officials remembered - Never mind what the bus passengers said… - Never mind that it wouldn't make sense for conspirators who used a scapegoat to take chances with trying to lie yet again by saying that their scapegoat went to a place where he didn't. You know what, DJ… never mind ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
François Carlier Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 By the way, as always, you are losing sight of what is important. The only man who shot JFK in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963 was Lee Harvey Oswald. Period. So whatever you might find about Mexico City is not really important as far as looking for the answer to the question : "who killed Kennedy ?" I'll tell you something. I am all ears. I am open-minded. I'll read all the "evidence" that you'll show here. If you prove to me that Oswald did not go to Mexico City, I will have absolutely no hesitation in admitting it. I don't really care one way or the other. That won't change the fact that on November 22, 1963, in Dallas, it was Lee Oswald who assassinated President Kennedy. So, go ahead. (Now, I am confident that you'll never be able to prove something that is wrong. Therefore, you won't be able to prove that Oswald was not where he actually was. But I'll be interested in reading) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, François Carlier said: Do you have a problem ? Can't you just debate without insulting ? Excuse me? You come into this thread spouting nonsense and then call me out? and then use DVP as a source? Just go to the WCR Fran... same thing... nothing DVP does changes what the WCR stated.... If, on that sunny day you finally pull your head out... maybe you'd know the first thing about what you write below... Amazingly, this list you provide simply proves how little you've done to familiarize yourself with the evidence in the case... Pick any one of the things you list and PROVE IT WAS REAL... just one. Or do you simply not have the ability to defend your opinions? CORNWELL - During this period was your normal work week, did it include Saturdays?TIRADO - Yes.CORNWELL - Is it possible that, in addition to his visits on Friday, he also came back the following day on Saturday mourning?TIRADO - No.CORNWELL - How can you be sure of that?TIRADO - Because, uh, I told you before, that it was easy to remember, because not all the Americans that came there were married with a Russian woman, they have live(d) in Russian and uh, we didn't used to fight with those people because if you, they came for going to Cuba, so apparently they were friends, no? So we were nice to them with this man we fight, I mean we had a hard discussion so we didn't want to have anything to do with him.CORNWELL - Okay. I understand that but I don't understand how that really answers the question. In other words, the question is, what is it about the events that makes you sure that he did not come back on Saturday, and have another conversation with you?TIRADO - Because I remember the fight. So if he (come) back, I would have remembered.CORNWELL - Did Azcue work on Saturdays?TIRADO - Yes, we used to work in the office but not for the public.CORNWELL - Was there a guard, was there a guard out here at the corner near number seven on your diagram on Saturdays?TIRADO - Excuse me?CORNWELL - Was there a doorman out near the area that you marked as number seven, on the diagram?TIRADO - Yes, but on Saturday he never let people ...CORNWELL - Never let people in.TIRADO - No.CORNWELL - Not even if they came up to the doorman and didn't speak Spanish? And were very insistent?TIRADO - No, because they could answer or something. They could ask me for instance, no ? by the inter-phone. It's the people like you Fran who take the joy out of discussing the case... your level of ignorance and denial reaches so incredibly deep as to be almost comical - yet you come here and post the most amusing and comical BS I've read in years.... Yes Fran, Duran tells us the person she does NPOT identify as our Oswald did not come back... yet the CIA has transcripts of her AND Oswald talking... How dat? 25 minutes ago, François Carlier said: But I could emulate you : - Never mind that his picture was on the Cuban application- Never mind that he signed several documents- Never mind that he wrote a letter himself about his trip- Never mind what his own wife said- Never mind what Sylvia Duran testified to- Never mind what the Soviet embassy officials remembered - Never mind what the bus passengers said… - Never mind that it wouldn't make sense for conspirators who used a scapegoat to take chances with trying to lie yet again by saying that their scapegoat went to a place where he didn't. You know what, DJ… never mind ! Edited January 5, 2019 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
François Carlier Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, David Josephs said: Excuse me? You come into this thread spouting nonsense and then call me out? and then use DVP as a source? Just go to the WCR Fran... same thing... nothing DVP does changes what the WCR stated.... If, on that sunny day you finally pull your head out... maybe you'd know the first thing about what you write below... Amazingly, this list you provide simply proves how little you've done to familiarize yourself with the evidence in the case... Pick any one of the things you list and PROVE IT WAS REAL... just one. Or do you simply not have the ability to defend your opinions? CORNWELL - During this period was your normal work week, did it include Saturdays?TIRADO - Yes.CORNWELL - Is it possible that, in addition to his visits on Friday, he also came back the following day on Saturday mourning?TIRADO - No.CORNWELL - How can you be sure of that?TIRADO - Because, uh, I told you before, that it was easy to remember, because not all the Americans that came there were married with a Russian woman, they have live(d) in Russian and uh, we didn't used to fight with those people because if you, they came for going to Cuba, so apparently they were friends, no? So we were nice to them with this man we fight, I mean we had a hard discussion so we didn't want to have anything to do with him.CORNWELL - Okay. I understand that but I don't understand how that really answers the question. In other words, the question is, what is it about the events that makes you sure that he did not come back on Saturday, and have another conversation with you?TIRADO - Because I remember the fight. So if he (come) back, I would have remembered.CORNWELL - Did Azcue work on Saturdays?TIRADO - Yes, we used to work in the office but not for the public.CORNWELL - Was there a guard, was there a guard out here at the corner near number seven on your diagram on Saturdays?TIRADO - Excuse me?CORNWELL - Was there a doorman out near the area that you marked as number seven, on the diagram?TIRADO - Yes, but on Saturday he never let people ...CORNWELL - Never let people in.TIRADO - No.CORNWELL - Not even if they came up to the doorman and didn't speak Spanish? And were very insistent?TIRADO - No, because they could answer or something. They could ask me for instance, no ? by the inter-phone. It's the people like you Fran who take the joy out of discussing the case... your level of ignorance and denial reaches so incredibly deep as to be almost comical - yet you come here and post the most amusing and comical BS I've read in years.... Yes Fran, Duran tells us the person she does NPOT identify as our Oswald did not come back... yet the CIA has transcripts of her AND Oswald talking... How dat? So boring to read such empty nonsense !... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
François Carlier Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 I love it. Even Edwin Lopez, who doesn't want to acknowledge the fact that Oswald went to the Cuban embassy (despite the evidence such as Sylvia Duran's testimony and the visa application bearing Oswald's signature) readily admits that yes, Oswald went to Mexico City !! So EVEN a guy who is called by the defense has to admit that yes, Oswald went to Mexico City. But James DiEugenio and David Josephs still dream that they know better than the whole world and imagine some history in a parallel universe where Oswald would not go to Mexico City. It's really pathetic…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
François Carlier Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Supposedly, unnamed conspirators decided to assassinate President Kennedy in 1963. But in order to deflect suspicions, they had a plan : they used a scapegoat. They killed Kennedy with a shot from the front (or a triangulation of fire, depending on what conspiracy author is talking) and blamed the assassination on an innocent man, who just happened to work in the area. In order to make their plan more convincing, they made it clear that the assassin was a leftists/communist. It was easy for them, as Oswald himself had been on two radio shows some months earlier in New Orleans, saying that he was a Marxist. OK, fine. But why on earth would those conspirators feel the need to complicate their plot further by pretending that their scapegoat had been to Mexico City when he had not ? And why would they be so dumb as to provide pictures of another man, so different-looking from Oswald that anybody, literally 100% of the people who would look at the picture, could immediately say : "That's not Oswald in that picture". Did the CIA want to uncover their own plot ? That does not make sense. Well, to Josephs, it does… 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
François Carlier Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) Conspiracy theorists who want to deny some event know how to always (dishonestly) win the argument : - if there is no picture, they'll say that it proves it didn't happen - if there is a picture, they'll say that the picture was faked Easy, isn't it ? Edited January 5, 2019 by François Carlier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 1 hour ago, David Josephs said: It's the people like you Fran who take the joy out of discussing the case... That's why the nutters are here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, David Josephs said: It appears that Oswald was a good little soldier in this charade and did not give away his alliances. Does anyone then ask - if you were not in Mexico, where were you? You bet someone's been asking that question ---- Me! I've been asking CTers that very question for at least 8 years now, including the post below from 2010. No CTer has ever provided any kind of a reasonable or sensible answer to my inquiry either. And I can't even recall any CTer even TRYING to provide a reasonable answer. My question is usually just ignored entirely. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.assassination.jfk/qA5_YBv2BD0/ZGJrTwbeaucJ Edited January 5, 2019 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
François Carlier Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Hello everybody, Please tell David Josephs not to watch this documentary. It would be too hard for him to bear… Starting at 1:02:30, they talk about Oswald's trip to Mexico City. They have witnesses who remember. That's funny, really : David Josephs was not in the bus, but he thinks that he knows better than the people who were in the bus ; He was not at the Cuban embassy, but he thinks that he knows better than the woman who was there ; He was not at the Soviet embassy, but he thinks that he knows better than the men who were there. They all say that they saw Oswald ? To Josephs, it means that Oswald was not there… Go figure ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) Francois, The YouTube video you posted of the excellent PBS documentary "Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald?" unfortunately cannot be played in the USA. It's been blocked in the United States (and probably in Canada too) by PBS. But it's available at my A/V website, here.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited January 5, 2019 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
François Carlier Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 1 minute ago, David Von Pein said: Francois, The YouTube video you posted of the excellent PBS documentary "Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald?" won't play in the USA. (It's been blocked in the United States by PBS.) But it's available at my A/V website, here.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh really ? Thank you for telling me. I wasn't aware of that. Well, thank you for providing your link, then. I think that the excerpt that starts at 01:02:30 is very interesting and is in relation with this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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