Jump to content
The Education Forum

Recommended Posts

On 1/23/2019 at 9:39 AM, Steve Thomas said:

Pam,

 

Do you think this is the same version that

Rich Della Rosa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrRbkY9gEnQ

and

William Reymond

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSdyqDBTpeo

said they saw?

 

Steve Thomas

 

My viewing was just one year after the assassination. I don't know for sure what Rich or William saw., but thank goodness they did see copies of it. I don't want to involve myself in what they saw so that I can be simply a witness to what I saw.  I think the copy I saw had something to with Time-Life, even though Tink Thompson, who was working for them at that time, scoffed at that idea. 

I do think that we were falsely led to believe that there was great security about the Z-film(s) early-on, when, in reality, a few people did have copies of them.  It was the ultimate 'snuff film', after all.  I heard that some Time-Life execs had a copy in their safes in their Connecticut homes, for example.  There was also a play ,"Z-312" - written about a TV exec who got his hands on an unaltered copy, that was supposed to have had some basis in fact: https://variety.com/2003/legit/reviews/frame-312-1200537462/ It is still all hush-hush.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/23/2019 at 1:02 PM, Michael Cross said:

I'm wondering that as well.  Greg Burnham has seen it as well.

Pamela?

I don't know.  I think the one I saw in 1964 may have come from Time-Life.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/23/2019 at 10:50 AM, James DiEugenio said:

Pamela,

To this day the CIA says that Oswald was in MC.  And they will tell everyone that.

Even though the evidence trail indicates they could not find a trace of him. 

For what reason would they do that? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/22/2019 at 10:21 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Thanks for sharing that, Pamela. At least you were able to find the person who went with you. And though she wouldn't confirm what you'd seen, I think her silence says a lot.

 

Thank you, Sandy.  

My dear late husband, Donner Brown, lived in NYC and also heard that there was at least one viewing of one of the Z-films in the 60's, but did not have any direct involvement with that. He thought that was at the Bleeker Cinema in the Village, so I contacted the son of the manager at that time and he went through all their records but could not find a viewing of it or the Wolper film "1000 Days" which was shown before the copy I saw.

Edited by Pamela Brown

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PB: For what reason would they do that? 

Because if Oswald was not there then that means someone impersonated him, and a false trail was then set up to conceal that.

Since almost all the info about MC came from the CIA, if this was exposed, then this would be incriminating of them.

The reason they would do the charade would be to place LHO in contact with the Cubans and Russians before the assassination.

Edited by James DiEugenio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/27/2019 at 2:10 AM, James DiEugenio said:

PB: For what reason would they do that? 

Because if Oswald was not there then that means someone impersonated him, and a false trail was then set up to conceal that.

Since almost all the info about MC came from the CIA, if this was exposed, then this would be incriminating of them.

The reason they would do the charade would be to place LHO in contact with the Cubans and Russians before the assassination.

So are you saying that you think CIA intentionally misdirected FBI Agent Hosty prior to LHO's arrest?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I am saying is that today, I have very serious doubts that Oswald was in Mexico City when the CIA says he was.

If that meant misleading the FBI, then that was the result.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

What I am saying is that today, I have very serious doubts that Oswald was in Mexico City when the CIA says he was.

If that meant misleading the FBI, then that was the result.

 

That doesn't seem a very tenable position to me.  Just my 2 cents...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

That doesn't seem a very tenable position to me.  Just my 2 cents...

Add I n the fact that Ozzie was doing FBI work at the time and the CIA knew it.

By using the name Lee Henry Oswald the ball gets rolling on that being the actual Oswald (despite and in spite of the Goodpasture lies about when and where the Mystery Man photots were taken) ...

... yet CIA appears to know what it was doing with the HENRY nomenclature from the very beginning (I do believe there were multiple "OSWALD" files at CIA/ONI/FBI)
Win Scott repeats it....  even after everyone knows that's not him nor is HENRY the correct name....

Phillip's ALVARADO would make the accusation against Oswald that ties him to Cuba... but that was all stopped immediately and reversed... Phillips basically breaks his own asset

In the contemporaneous reports of the LI- activity for Sept and Oct 1963 we are not informed about Oswald at all from Sept 27/28 and there is one line mention in October's which is not written until Nov 7th....  By Nov 7th, virtually everything there was to know about Mexico City was on the table.... and the one man who is repeatedly overlooked is one Rafael Hernandez OCHOA, a direct FBI asset, #2 at Immigration & Naturalization at Gobernacion literally had every item of evidence FROM MEXICO - pass thru his hands on its way to the FBI...

By Early Nov Hoover knew Oswald had not been there....  FWIW... while the CIA repeats "ANAHUAC"  in a number of their reports... nothing from any FBI report correctly places Oswald on any bus to or from Mexico...

5a207c43aefe2_63-11-26CIAMexicosummaryhasOswaldarrivingonAnahuacbuslineandleavingsameOct1.jpg.2a594a01113466cd48c128aa2bb65207.jpg

133955240_63-11-25FBI105-3702NARA124-10230-10432MexisourcescheckedallbuslinesOct1-2-3allNEGATIVEforOSWALDtravelp1Anahuacnowinvolved-highlighted.thumb.jpg.826a7796868f24129dbaad109136ee62.jpg

 

63-11-04%20FBI%20Mexi%20file%20105-3702%

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DJ: By Early Nov Hoover knew Oswald had not been there

 

David:

What do you base this on?  Two weeks before JFK is killed and Hoover knows the CIA is full of it on MC?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

DJ: By Early Nov Hoover knew Oswald had not been there

 

David:

What do you base this on?  Two weeks before JFK is killed and Hoover knows the CIA is full of it on MC?

I posted this on purpose Jim....  All thru Nov the FBI's assets where looking for any trace of his being there.... with no success...

On the 8th they even ask their asset OCHOA at Gobernacion... this is the man with access to ALL the travel documentation... no luck...

One last point... As I explained in my paper... the FBI had the SIS from the 40's.  Their assets in places like Mexico City were very well established and very informative... it was even thought that FBI/Hoover had his own source of LI- related output as quickly as the CIA did....

How does HOOVER not know that Oswald has crossed into Mexico, or even arrived in Mexico City without being reported by the FBI's assets?  The first report is from WOOSLEY to HOSTY about the 10/10 cable... on 10/18....  once HOSTY conveys to FBI HQ what he's learned... and Hoover has the 10/10 cable...  I for one would have to wonder why HOOVER wasn't aware of Oswald in Mexico.... 

how many white, ex-marine defectors were the FBI watching anyway?  There are woefully few FBI reports on Oswald during October 1963....

the October 22 teletype dismisses HENRY for HARVEY and adds in the bit about Oswald drinking while beating Marina....
it also throws in the FPCC for good measure....  New Orleans is made aware of this info as well...  by Oct 22 the FBI and Hoover begin to see the writing on the wall...

 

63-11-04%20FBI%20Mexi%20file%20105-3702%

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is really interesting David.

And Ochoa tells them nada on the 8th.

Then Hoover must have known the CIA was involved after since Ochoa is the guy who puts the phony trail together for Echeveria after the assassination.

Man, J Edgar really knew what he was talking about when he wrote the CIA gave him a snow job on Oswald in MC.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While looking for other things, I came across this interesting montage.  I'm just posting it for those who don't have it and would like to add it to their collection of photos.

This is 5 photos in one place for a handy reference of the guy I call the Al Bundy Oswald in Mexico.

al-bundy-oswald-in-mc.jpg 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, David Josephs said:

I posted this on purpose Jim....  All thru Nov the FBI's assets where looking for any trace of his being there.... with no success...

On the 8th they even ask their asset OCHOA at Gobernacion... this is the man with access to ALL the travel documentation... no luck...

One last point... As I explained in my paper... the FBI had the SIS from the 40's.  Their assets in places like Mexico City were very well established and very informative... it was even thought that FBI/Hoover had his own source of LI- related output as quickly as the CIA did....

How does HOOVER not know that Oswald has crossed into Mexico, or even arrived in Mexico City without being reported by the FBI's assets?  The first report is from WOOSLEY to HOSTY about the 10/10 cable... on 10/18....  once HOSTY conveys to FBI HQ what he's learned... and Hoover has the 10/10 cable...  I for one would have to wonder why HOOVER wasn't aware of Oswald in Mexico.... 

how many white, ex-marine defectors were the FBI watching anyway?  There are woefully few FBI reports on Oswald during October 1963....

the October 22 teletype dismisses HENRY for HARVEY and adds in the bit about Oswald drinking while beating Marina....
it also throws in the FPCC for good measure....  New Orleans is made aware of this info as well...  by Oct 22 the FBI and Hoover begin to see the writing on the wall...

 

63-11-04%20FBI%20Mexi%20file%20105-3702%

 

David,

Do you have any idea why in November the FBI was suddenly looking to see if Oswald had been in Mexico City?

Your information surprises me. I had assumed that the FBI was unaware of the trip till shortly after the assassination.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

David,

Do you have any idea why in November the FBI was suddenly looking to see if Oswald had been in Mexico City?

Your information surprises me. I had assumed that the FBI was unaware of the trip till shortly after the assassination.

 

The 10/10/63 memo from the CIA https://statick2k-5f2f.kxcdn.com/images/pdf/chapter6_3c.pdf 

to Navy, State and FBI tells them specifically that LEE OSWALD was heard on Oct 1st via a sensitive source tapping the Russian Embassy in Mexico...p2 of the pdf

As mentioned, we have very few reports on Oswald from Sept 23 until Nov 1st....  we have the IN&S cc mentioned to Hosty by Jeff Woosley on Oct 18....

It would be natural for the FBI to CYA and do a little checking of their own....  remember, Hoover said to LBJ that the man was not his photo or his voice so there must be a "second man down there".... (not that Ozzie was being impersonated of course...)

I THINK...  again "THINK" that Hoover.FBI/Hosty knew exactly where Oswald was Sept 24 - Oct 4th --- on his way thru Austin to Odio then on to Dallas and finally the YMCA...
Oswald did not call Marina until the 4th to get a ride home... she hung up on him...

955985871_YMCAfromOct3-smaller.jpg.9e078b64b767777e9a5eed62c5fa6da1.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...