Marina ... pretty agent for LHO?

[Cory Santos]

Was Marina an agent?

Edited January 5, 2019 by Cory Santos

[David Von Pein]

Marina interviews, testimony, photos, and discussion....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/09/marina-oswald.html

Edited January 5, 2019 by David Von Pein

[Adam Johnson]

What an open, warm and loving women Marina comes across in all her interviews. What a joy it must have been for Lee spending weekends with her and Ruth Paine. 

[Joe Bauer]

 

Marina's true physical beauty hugely enhanced the story of her and Lee. I am sure that almost every young and even older man in America who first caught a glimpse of her in all the news coverage of the time, felt an instant attraction to her. 

If Marina looked like the heavy set, weathered leather faced, thick ankled plow pusher Russian women so often depicted in much our own typical anti-Russian media, the story of Lee and Marina would have been much different and hugely less attractive.

Marina would have been forgotten in 3 months.

 

Edited February 14, 2019 by Joe Bauer

[Steve Thomas]

8 hours ago, Cory Santos said:

Was Marina an agent?

Cory,

 

I thought this analysis was pretty good. You have to read the details behind his conclusions:

https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/mystery-marina-oswald

<Quote on>

"Let's recap here:

1. Marina, part of the Soviet upper-middle class, reasonably educated and an attractive young woman, meets Lee Harvey Oswald and is so smitten by him that she agrees to marry him in a little over a month — two weeks of which he spent courting her from a hospital bed.

2. The Soviet government grants Marina permission to marry him in the span of 10 days, despite the fact that this is an MVD colonel's niece marrying a U.S. defector.

3. Oswald immediately decides to head back to the United States, and in spite of her uncle's supposed objections — and Prusakov could have stopped this dead in its tracks if he wanted — she is granted permission to leave the Soviet Union in the company of an American defector. The time between her formal request and receiving permission is a matter of weeks.

If the Warren Commission has the facts right — and we think they do — then this is clear: the Soviet government wanted Marina and Oswald to marry and they wanted them to go together to the United States. That is crystal clear. Now, we take a leap, but a reasonable one: The only agency in the Soviet Union with the ability and interest to get this done was the KGB. If Marina wasn't KGB, she did one hell of an imitation.

Endless questions flow from this, ranging from what the mission was to why the U.S. embassy permitted Marina into the country. This now enters into the realm of speculation. However, one thing is clear to us: Any theory as to what happened on Nov. 22, 1963, that does not take into careful account the role of Marina Oswald is inherently flawed. This includes the Warren Commission's own findings. If Lee Harvey Oswald killed John F. Kennedy, there has been no adequate explanation of Marina Oswald's role in this.

The only way to dismiss the Marina question is to make the following three assertions:

1. You have to believe that Marina, the attractive MVD princess, took one look at Oswald and said, "I've got to have that man."

2. You have to argue that obtaining permission in 10 days for an MVD colonel's live-in niece to marry an American defector was no big deal.

3. You have to argue that getting an exit permit from the Soviet Union for Marina in the space of six weeks in 1961 was no big deal.

If ever there was a cooked-up marriage, this was it. Now, how this fits into the assassination story is too speculative to bother with — but that no explanation is possible without building this into the story is obvious."

<Quote off>

 

Steve Thomas
 

[John Butler]

Marina Oswald- Soviet Agent  --------> Double Agent ------------> Triple Agent/Double Agent.

Soviet Agent-  Marry American in order to get to the US , doesn't matter who she marries (Webster?) but, ends up with Oswald(s)

Double Agent-  Go over to the US and support Oswald in Russia in the Project Oswald/defection/spy plan and have multiple Oswald husbands

Triple Agent/Double Agent-  On gaining access to the US revert to Soviet Agent Status to monitor Oswald and other agents.  After the assassination say whatever was needed to remain in the US.

Was Marina a Soviet Agent willing to "prostitute" herself for the greater glories of the state and communism?  A good soldier?

This is what I think or speculate.

Edited January 7, 2019 by John Butler

[Jim Hargrove]

What's amusing, though, is that the young man posing as "Lee Harvey Oswald" was never in the radar bubble at Atsugi and had no legitimate sensitive information to offer the Soviets.

[Robert Card]

For you experts on Marina, ...was she sequestered for 3 months by the FBI after the assassination?

[Jim Hargrove]

Rich,

Yes, I know that Gary Powers blamed "LHO" for shooting down his plane, but John Newman and Peter Dale Scott agree with me.

From Spy Wars, Part 2: March 3, 2018 in San Francisco

The part I excerpted below begins at about the 37:12 mark in the YouTube video.

 

Above courtesy Dr. Gary Aguilar and YouTube
 
Speakers in this clip are:

Bill Simpich--BS
Peter Dale Scott – PDS
John Newman – JN

Re. the alleged “Oswald” calls in Mexico City in 1963:

At approximately the 37:12 mark in the YouTube clip above:

BS: There’s two different genuses of false phone calls. 
PDS: Yeah, exactly.  One was a call with a lie in it, the other was an alleged call that did not, in fact, take place.
JN: The Tuesday call didn’t take place?
PDS: No, the Tuesday call did take place by a man, I’m sure, was not the Oswald we think of….
JN: Right
PDS: … and then, by the way… this is just a question… are you absolutely convinced that the man who was “Lee Harvey Oswald” in Russia was, in fact, the man picked up in Dallas in 1963?
JN: Not at all.  And I’ve gone over to the view that in Mexico City that, maybe it’s him, maybe it’s not. So I’m not going to be dogmatic about it. He could have been there and impersonated or could have been not there at all.
PDS: … There is a fragment of a release that says that the man who made the phone calls spoke horrible Russian AND English!  So, I do not think that was the man in Dallas. And I actually think, and this is completely anecdotal, but I once had an hour long conversation with Marina when I was trying my hardest not to bring up the assassination, and we were talking about literature, and I said did she like Henry James and she said that she had never heard of Henry James, who was Henry James, and I said, oh, he's sort of like the American Turgenev, and she said, "Oh, Turgenev, Alec really loved Turgenev." The man who checked out books from the New Orleans Public Library was not a lover of Turgenev."

[Joe Bauer]

18 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Rich,

Yes, I know that Gary Powers blamed "LHO" for shooting down his plane, but John Newman and Peter Dale Scott agree with me.

From Spy Wars, Part 2: March 3, 2018 in San Francisco

The part I excerpted below begins at about the 37:12 mark in the YouTube video.

 

Above courtesy Dr. Gary Aguilar and YouTube
 
Speakers in this clip are:

Bill Simpich--BS
Peter Dale Scott – PDS
John Newman – JN

.
PDS: … There is a fragment of a release that says that the man who made the phone calls spoke horrible Russian AND English!  So, I do not think that was the man in Dallas. And I actually think, and this is completely anecdotal, but I once had an hour long conversation with Marina when I was trying my hardest not to bring up the assassination, and we were talking about literature, and I said did she like Henry James and she said that she had never heard of Henry James, who was Henry James, and I said, oh, he's sort of like the American Turgenev, and she said, "Oh, Turgenev, Alec really loved Turgenev." The man who checked out books from the New Orleans Public Library was not a lover of Turgenev."

Did PDS get the above statement from Marina on tape?

And why does she call Lee "Alec?"

If the man Marina married in Russia was not the American born Lee Harvey Oswald ...  what do we have here? 

Would the Russians risk so much to plan and implement such a deadly and sinister scheme?

And Marina could have been executed if she broke and revealed this ( because she would have had to be a willing participant) to the American investigators.

If this was such a scheme...Marina has to be one of the most steeled and disciplined female spies ever...for never breaking under years of surveillance and other investigative pressure.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Joe Bauer

[Pamela Brown]

21 hours ago, Cory Santos said:

Was Marina an agent?

It is not out of the question that she was.  

[Michael Clark]

4 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

If the man Marina married in Russia was not the American born Lee Harvey Oswald ...  what do we have here? 

 

Joe,

If you have not read the Furniture Mart episode in the WCR, you may find, after doing so, that there may have been a second, full, Oswald family, in the Dallas area in the fall of 63; of which Marina, the DPD LHO, or both, may not have been aware.

Michael

[Joseph McBride]

FBI agent James Hosty, who was assigned to the Oswalds in Dallas,

writes in his book that he was more concerned about Marina than Lee because he thought she

might be KGB. Of course, Hosty may not have been telling the truth, since

he "bungled" the case so badly, and since Oswald was an FBI informant (Henry Wade

told me Oswald last spoke to the FBI a day or two before the assassination, and

it was reported he also spoke with them on November 16 and in the second week of November). We

know about Marina's uncle in Soviet intelligence and how she allegedly had been a "Red Sparrow" and had been kicked

out of Leningrad for prostitution. She may have been a sleeper KGB agent, at least in her initial assignment to go with Oswald to the US, but helped

Ruth Paine set up Oswald for the CIA, so she most likely turned before the assassination. In any case, under extreme pressure from the US government

after the assassination, Marina did whatever was needed to cooperate and stay in the country. Her actions in the next few years show

an attraction to American materialism, but she was probably disoriented and she remains an enigma today. All her changes of

heart don't add up to much of a coherent picture, in my view.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Joseph McBride

[Jim Hargrove]

In answer to Cory’s original question, I’d like to chime in that Marina was a Russian agent, in my opinion.  The Soviet’s would have never let her and “LHO” out of the country so easily had she not been.  Joe’s belief that this “Red Sparrow” may have been turned before the assassination sounds quite possible to me, though in the hall-of-mirrors world of spycraft , how can we ever be certain of things like this?

More evidence that Marina was involved in intelligence affairs is that she befriended not one but two American “defectors” in the Soviet Union in relatively quick succession: Robert Webster and Oswald.  Webster told American author Dick Russell that he and Marina spoke English in the USSR and that her English was good, although she had a heavy accent.

“Lee Harvey Oswald’s” Russian was amazing!  Even if we assume a one-and-only Lee Harvey Oswald had some sort of crash Russian-language training as part of his spy training, his love of reading classic Russian literature in Russian is hard to fathom.  John Armstrong interviewed a number of “Oswald’s” USMC fellow soldiers and was told there was simply no time for him to have seriously studied Russian.  And yet Marina tells us he loved Turgenev!

Consider this from George DeMohrenschildt’s manuscript I’m A Patsy! I'm A Patsy!
 

There are ample reasons to distrust DeMohrenschildt, but this pretty much confirms Marina's observation.  Reading Russian authors like Gorki, Dostoevski, Gogol, Tostoi, and Turgenieff in Russian as a leisure activity does not strike me as remotely compatible with the Lee Harvey Oswald we’ve been told about, who would surely be studying the Russian counterpart of Dick and Jane.

[Pamela Brown]

On 1/5/2019 at 4:27 AM, Adam Johnson said:

What an open, warm and loving women Marina comes across in all her interviews. What a joy it must have been for Lee spending weekends with her and Ruth Paine. 

LHO may have grabbed a clue that there was a lot more to Marina than what she told him, as he seemed to grow more antagonistic to her and distant from her the longer they were in the US.