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Derek Thibeault

William Greer and the Braking Limo

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I read that we have 50 witnesses that saw the presidential limo stop before the fatal head shot. I watched Doug Horne's doc on the Zapruder film, which was very good and shows a strong case of alteration of the Zapruder film that would have taken those frames out among other changes. If you believe in those items as I do, how would have Greer known when to stop the limo? At a certain place, after hearing the first shot(which would be tough), a sign(Umbrella man, other), completely by accident, or other? I don't buy into Greer shooting Kennedy. Also if Greer is involved by stopping on purpose, isn't that a huge risk, hoping he is not shot in the process, putting faith in the gunmen not to miss?

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I think that a bullet through the windshield was as good a signal as any for Greer to start slowing down.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Derek Thibeault said:

Also if Greer is involved by stopping on purpose, isn't that a huge risk, hoping he is not shot in the process, putting faith in the gunmen not to miss?

Failure of the first rounds to mortally wound Kennedy would have Jackie moving closer to her husband.

The greater risk would be hitting Jackie, hence the slowing/stopping of the limo.

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If Greer heard the first shot, but wasn’t sure from which direction the shot came, it would’ve been natural, I think, for him panic and brake, fearing that he may he may have been driving right into a fusillade of gunfire. But that still leaves a question unanswered: If the frames showing the limousine nearly stopping were excised, why? Perhaps simply to cover their own asses? As an aside, I, too, think that the ‘theory’ of Greer turning to shoot Kennedy is implausible; It’s simply ludicrous, and only further muddies the water. 

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1 hour ago, Ron Ecker said:

I think that a bullet through the windshield was as good a signal as any for Greer to start slowing down.

Love this line, Ron.

Like the NORAD command on 9/11, Greer wasn't fired or even reprimanded for  performing his duty in a grossly negligent way. When DeGaulle was ambushed and surrounded by machine guns firing, he had a driver that knew to evade, speed up and swirl. JFK had a lazy, incompetent and likely a bit drunk one--if not an evil one. I think there was alteration; I also always thought the slow down at the time of the shooting was obvious. Such a slow down could have been perceived as a stop and maybe the altered frames came at the turn unto Elm.

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The Conspiracy theory is that the freshly painted yellow marks on the curb defined the kill zone that Greer was to slow or stop at. The fact that Chaney, Hargis, Chief Curry and the FBI and CIA agents in his back seat all said Chaney rode forward to notify Curry(300 feet ahead of the limo) of the shots fired is another anomaly related to the limo stop. If they did take the limo stop out then there is no time for Chaney to ride up to Curry, then stop and have a short conversation. So the theory is they had to take out Chaney's ride forward too. 

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In my book INTO THE NIGHTMARE, I quote my 1988 interview with Sen. Ralph Yarborough (D-Texas),

who was riding in the back seat of the convertible with LBJ and Lady Bird Johnson right behind

the Queen Mary. Among other things, Yarborough told me that Secret Service Agent Rufus Youngblood

did not jump over the seat, as LBJ later claimed, and that while the shots were fired, LBJ was crouching

to listen to Youngblood's walkie-talkie, which he wore on a strap over his shoulder in the front seat. Yarborough

said this about his reactions on hearing the shots, an account at variance with the extant version of the Zapruder film:

"The first shot I heard I thought was a rifle shot. The second shot, the motorcade almost came to a halt. They said later that the president‘s car slowed to something like five miles an hour. I wondered what the hell they were stopping for when somebody is shooting. People were jumping out of the car in front of me [the Secret Service followup car] and running to the president‘s car. I thought maybe somebody had thrown a bomb in there. The third shot I heard was a rifle shot."

 

Edited by Joseph McBride

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1 hour ago, Joseph McBride said:

In my book INTO THE NIGHTMARE, I quote my 1988 interview with Sen. Ralph Yarborough...

FYI / FWIW....

Here's a brief interview with Senator Yarborough on the day of the assassination....

https://drive.google.com/file/Ralph Yarborough Interview On Nov. 22, 1963

Edited by David Von Pein

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2 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

In my book INTO THE NIGHTMARE, I quote my 1988 interview with Sen. Ralph Yarborough (D-Texas),

who was riding in the back seat of the convertible with LBJ and Lady Bird Johnson right behind

the Queen Mary. Among other things, Yarborough told me that Secret Service Agent Rufus Youngblood

did not jump over the seat, as LBJ later claimed, and that while the shots were fired, LBJ was crouching

to listen to Youngblood's walkie-talkie, which he wore on a strap over his shoulder in the front seat. Yarborough

said this about his reactions on hearing the shots, an account at variance with the extant version of the Zapruder film:

"The first shot I heard I thought was a rifle shot. The second shot, the motorcade almost came to a halt. They said later that the president‘s car slowed to something like five miles an hour. I wondered what the hell they were stopping for when somebody is shooting. People were jumping out of the car in front of me [the Secret Service followup car] and running to the president‘s car. I thought maybe somebody had thrown a bomb in there. The third shot I heard was a rifle shot."

 

"LBJ was crouching to listen to listen Youngblood's walkie talkie".   To find out if the assassination was successful? 

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2 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

In my book INTO THE NIGHTMARE, I quote my 1988 interview with Sen. Ralph Yarborough (D-Texas),

who was riding in the back seat of the convertible with LBJ and Lady Bird Johnson right behind

the Queen Mary. Among other things, Yarborough told me that Secret Service Agent Rufus Youngblood

did not jump over the seat, as LBJ later claimed, and that while the shots were fired, LBJ was crouching

to listen to Youngblood's walkie-talkie, which he wore on a strap over his shoulder in the front seat. Yarborough

said this about his reactions on hearing the shots, an account at variance with the extant version of the Zapruder film:

"The first shot I heard I thought was a rifle shot. The second shot, the motorcade almost came to a halt. They said later that the president‘s car slowed to something like five miles an hour. I wondered what the hell they were stopping for when somebody is shooting. People were jumping out of the car in front of me [the Secret Service followup car] and running to the president‘s car. I thought maybe somebody had thrown a bomb in there. The third shot I heard was a rifle shot."

 

Thanks Joe...I need to pick up a copy.

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1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

"LBJ was crouching to listen to listen Youngblood's walkie talkie".   To find out if the assassination was successful? 

Yes. He was.  JMHO.  From what reading I've done I think he had foreknowledge because of the role he would be assuming.  But other than maybe useful for contacts in Dallas and Fort Worth he wasn't involved in the planning and execution of the assassination. 

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21 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

Penn Jones used to say that LBJ "was the only one in the motorcade who ducked."

By the same token SS Agent Rufus Youngblood never jumped over the seat and sat on LBJ.  Did I read that in your book or someone else's?

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On 1/20/2019 at 7:58 AM, Derek Thibeault said:

I read that we have 50 witnesses that saw the presidential limo stop before the fatal head shot. I watched Doug Horne's doc on the Zapruder film, which was very good and shows a strong case of alteration of the Zapruder film that would have taken those frames out among other changes. If you believe in those items as I do, how would have Greer known when to stop the limo? At a certain place, after hearing the first shot(which would be tough), a sign(Umbrella man, other), completely by accident, or other? I don't buy into Greer shooting Kennedy. Also if Greer is involved by stopping on purpose, isn't that a huge risk, hoping he is not shot in the process, putting faith in the gunmen not to miss?

Derek,

My answer to your very good question is the yellow curb markings showed him precisely where to slow / stop the limo because that is exactly what happened.

Thanks

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