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Tony Krome

Backyard Photo Observation

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I would like to post more info on the equinoxes since this notion is new and important. 

Equinoxes occurs twice a year, during March and September.

  • Vernal Equinox: Sun crosses the Celestial Equator moving North (occurs in March)
  • Autumnal Equinox: Sun crosses the Celestial Equator moving South (occurs in September)

This movement of the sun at an equinox can vary as much as a 3 day period around March 20 at the March Equinox (Say 19th,  20th, and 21st.) and at the Autumnal Equinox a period of 3 days around September 22 (Say 21st, 22nd, and the 23rd).

The equinoxes are a time the sun rises directly in the east and sets directly in the west.  So, it doesn’t matter whether the sun is moving north of south.  The sunlight shining on an object is the same at the same time of day.

For CBS to reproduce the BYPs they would have to do their reproduction during the time periods mentioned and particularly the same time of the day.  I'm not going to credit CBS as smarter than the folks on this forum.  They must have had help in how to reproduce the BYP from the original producers.

I might be wrong but I don't think CBS could photograph the shadows correctly in early October.  Could they shoot at an earlier time or later time to simulate the time of the original BYP?

Maybe Chris can help with this.

Edited by John Butler

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32 minutes ago, John Butler said:

I might be wrong but I don't think CBS could photograph the shadows correctly in early October.  Could they shoot at an earlier time or later time to simulate the time of the original BYP?

Just to clarify, my previous post was for showing a similar shrub with full foliage in early October 2015 for the miniseries 11.22.63

So we have foliage in October, foliage in the Oswald photo, and no foliage in the March CBS re-enactment photo.

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6 hours ago, John Butler said:

I would like to post more info on the equinoxes since this notion is new and important. 

Equinoxes occurs twice a year, during March and September.

  • Vernal Equinox: Sun crosses the Celestial Equator moving North (occurs in March)
  • Autumnal Equinox: Sun crosses the Celestial Equator moving South (occurs in September)

This movement of the sun at an equinox can vary as much as a 3 day period around March 20 at the March Equinox (Say 19th,  20th, and 21st.) and at the Autumnal Equinox a period of 3 days around September 22 (Say 21st, 22nd, and the 23rd).

The equinoxes are a time the sun rises directly in the east and sets directly in the west.  So, it doesn’t matter whether the sun is moving north of south.  The sunlight shining on an object is the same at the same time of day.

For CBS to reproduce the BYPs they would have to do their reproduction during the time periods mentioned and particularly the same time of the day.  I'm not going to credit CBS as smarter than the folks on this forum.  They must have had help in how to reproduce the BYP from the original producers.

I might be wrong but I don't think CBS could photograph the shadows correctly in early October.  Could they shoot at an earlier time or later time to simulate the time of the original BYP?

Maybe Chris can help with this.

It takes a few days for the azimuth or elevation to change one full degree. I wonder just how precisely we can measure less than one degree considering perspective and camera distortions. I guess you may have 5 days in March and 5 in September.

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1 hour ago, Chris Bristow said:

It takes a few days for the azimuth or elevation to change one full degree. I wonder just how precisely we can measure less than one degree considering perspective and camera distortions. I guess you may have 5 days in March and 5 in September.

Let me know if you need any shadow comparison photos like the example below

 

file.php?id=299249&mode=view

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In the three BYP, note that the perspective of the items in the background, the fence, to the left of him,  the stair post shadows and the position of the fence posts to the right of him,  immediately behind  "Oswald" does not change at all. If the three photos had been taken at different times, as per Marina's testimony, this would not have happened. She would have had to have been in exactly the same place.

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18 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:

But if you look at where the stairs line up with the roof of the house behind Oswald you see the camera was maybe 4 inches higher. The head of the guy in the photo sits at the same height as Oswald. So if the camera is higher and yet both men appear to be the same height when compared to the post behind their heads, then the guy in the comparison image has to be taller.

Yes, I can see that clearly now in the above photo. Tricky buggers.

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7 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

In the three BYP, note that the perspective of the items in the background, the fence, to the left of him,  the stair post shadows and the position of the fence posts to the right of him,  immediately behind  "Oswald" does not change at all. If the three photos had been taken at different times, as per Marina's testimony, this would not have happened. She would have had to have been in exactly the same place.

I've also been thinking about what height the camera must have been at for the BYPs. Mr. Josephs has pointed out that the type of camera allegedly used had to be at chest height. Marina was what 5'3" ? The camera would be have to be way below that.

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file.php?id=299249&mode=view

This is an excellent comparison. It is not quite the same in both photos indicating time has passed at 214 Neeley Street.  You can see the weathering of the steps in the later photo.  The figures are in slightly different positions.

I accept as a fact that Tony Krome has skillfully demonstrated that the BYP in question was taken in September rather than March of 1963.

Can this be used in a wider context?  What follows is at best circumstantial speculation.  Or, it might be true reasoning.  Consider the following disparate events.  Or, are they random occurrences?

 

  1. From Spartacus International:  White joined the Dallas Police Force in September, 1963. Soon afterwards, his wife Geneva White, claimed that she overheard her husband and Jack Ruby plotting the assassination of John F. Kennedy. (Roscoe White is alleged to have made the BYPs)

  2. Roscoe White’s wife ended up with BYP 133-C.  Statement of Jan. 5, 1977 to the HSCA.

  3. Roscoe White was a Marine at Atsugi Naval Base at the same time as LHO.  Maybe he was trained there. 

  4. LEE HARVEY OSWALD  http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/oswald.htm "Oct. 15, 1963 Dallas Oswald Hired by Roy Truly at Texas School Book Depository Oct. 16, 1963 Dallas Oswald begins work at Depository"

  5. The "Three Furies" that Brought Kennedy to Oswald http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dallas.txt "In late September the White House announced a two-day trip to Texas on November 21-22.  On October 4, during a visit with Kennedy in Washington, Connally formally acquiesed to the trip but suggested that one fund-raiser would suffice and would raise as much money as four."

6.     From Wikipedia-  Mexico

Marina's friend Ruth Paine transported Marina and her child by car from New Orleans to the Paine home in Irving, Texas, near Dallas, on September 23, 1963.[102][120] Oswald stayed in New Orleans at least two more days to collect a $33 unemployment check. It is uncertain when he left New Orleans; he is next known to have boarded a bus in Houston on September 26—bound for the Mexican border, rather than Dallas—and to have told other bus passengers that he planned to travel to Cuba via Mexico.[121][122] He arrived in Mexico City on September 27, where he applied for a transit visa at the Cuban Embassy,[123] claiming he wanted to visit Cuba on his way to the Soviet Union. The Cuban embassy officials insisted Oswald would need Soviet approval, but he was unable to get prompt co-operation from the Soviet embassy

  1. From Wikipedia:  Marina's friend Ruth Paine transported Marina and her child by car from New Orleans to the Paine home in Irving, Texas, near Dallas, on September 23, 1963.[102][120] Oswald stayed in New Orleans at least two more days to collect a $33 unemployment check 

  2. From Wikipedia:  Ruth Paine said that her neighbor told her, on October 14, that there was a job opening at the Texas School Book Depository, where her neighbor's brother, Wesley Frazier, worked

  3. From Wikipedia:  Oswald rented a room there for $8 a week, beginning October 14, 1963, under the name O.H. Lee The building is approximately 2 miles from the Texas School Book Depository where Oswald began working on October 16.

One could probably list more of these.  The two sources for this info may be considered unreliable by some but, the facts can be verified elsewhere. 

From No. 7 Oswald rented a room two days before the obtained the job at the TSBD.  He was certain of employment.

If you can believe No. 4 LHO was not in Dallas, TX on the Autumnal Equinox.

I believe the decision to kill President Kennedy went into full force in the fall of 1962.  And, the decision to make Lee Harvey Oswald the Patsy was implemented in the fall of 1963 in September, 1963.  The decision may have been made earlier.  Whether or not these events are related they are the background of LHO and the eventual killing of President Kennedy by the alleged assassination Lee Harvey Oswald, The Patsy.    

Edited by John Butler

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9 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

I've also been thinking about what height the camera must have been at for the BYPs. Mr. Josephs has pointed out that the type of camera allegedly used had to be at chest height. Marina was what 5'3" ? The camera would be have to be way below that.

It was a top view so he held it at her chest and looked down into the viewfinder.

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Regarding shadow movement the post shadow moves several inches because the shadow is about 25 feet long. The other shadows max out around 6 feet and so should move less than an inch. But you do see a slight movement.

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10 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Let me know if you need any shadow comparison photos like the example below

 

file.php?id=299249&mode=view

Thanks, I have done so many comps of the shadows already I loose track of them. I have found that all the shadows are as they should be, even the nose shadow. The only thing I see wrong with 133a is the lean can't be reproduced if you are careful to match the angle of the foot and hip. Foot at about 45 degrees and the hip at no more than 20 degrees If you keep those angles correct and try to line up your right shin, knee under the belt buckle(location)  it is impossible to replicate the lean. I will post a new thead on it soon.

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20 hours ago, Ray Mitcham said:

In the three BYP, note that the perspective of the items in the background, the fence, to the left of him,  the stair post shadows and the position of the fence posts to the right of him,  immediately behind  "Oswald" does not change at all. If the three photos had been taken at different times, as per Marina's testimony, this would not have happened. She would have had to have been in exactly the same place.

It is suspicious that all three photos match so well. I thought Jack White claimed that they were all the same background. But at the top of the post next to Oswald, on its right side, you can see where the roof of the house next store meets the post just below where the post meets the stairs. It is slightly different in all three photos. So it can't be the same background in all three images. 
 The horizontal position is an exact match. The story was that she did not know how to operate the camera so He walked over and advanced the film for her between shots. I guess it is possible that she stood in the same spot the whole time and that would explain the amazing alignment

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54 minutes ago, Chris Bristow said:

It is suspicious that all three photos match so well. I thought Jack White claimed that they were all the same background. But at the top of the post next to Oswald, on its right side, you can see where the roof of the house next store meets the post just below where the post meets the stairs. It is slightly different in all three photos. So it can't be the same background in all three images. 
 The horizontal position is an exact match. The story was that she did not know how to operate the camera so He walked over and advanced the film for her between shots. I guess it is possible that she stood in the same spot the whole time and that would explain the amazing alignment

I wondered about that Chris, However, using the same camera,  which didn't have a zoom feature, and standing in the same spot, how come "Oswald" in CE133B is closer to the camera than he is in the other two photos?

Edited by Ray Mitcham

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On 2/1/2019 at 8:15 PM, Tony Krome said:

I thought I'd throw up some of my old research;

The photos below are the Oswald backyard photo and the re-enactment backyard photo from 3/31/67

Years ago, I sent cropped photos of just the shrub seen to the right of the men, to several garden/nursery businesses in the Dallas area

They replied that couldn't identify the shrub from the photos, but suggested the shrub was possibly deciduous

IF the shrub was deciduous, it suggests that the two photos below, depict two different seasons

Also, the grass underfoot seems lush on one photo and somewhat barren on the other

Thoughts?

Lee-Harvey-Oswald-Backyard-Photo.jpg

Backyard-Photo-Recreation.jpg

 

Tony,

 

I always thought that the Oswald figure was superimposed on a background shot, and whoever did the superimposing (is that a real word?), did a sloppy job.

In your reproduction, the slots in the fence and the support posts for the stairs and the shed run pretty much straight up and down at 0 or 360 degree compass heading.

In the Oswald picture, the fence slats and support posts have a roughly 50 degree NE compass heading.

(Either that, or the contractor who built the shed and fencing needs to get another job.)

 

Steve Thomas

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18 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Tony,

 

I always thought that the Oswald figure was superimposed on a background shot, and whoever did the superimposing (is that a real word?), did a sloppy job.

In your reproduction, the slots in the fence and the support posts for the stairs and the shed run pretty much straight up and down at 0 or 360 degree compass heading.

In the Oswald picture, the fence slats and support posts have a roughly 50 degree NE compass heading.

(Either that, or the contractor who built the shed and fencing needs to get another job.)

 

Steve Thomas

Agreed Steve, seems who ever concocted that photo made a cock up, and they had to adjust tilt in order to make the lean acceptable. When corrected look at the ridiculous angle "Oswald" is supposedly standing in this adjusted photo.

 

CE-133-A-lean.jpg

Edited by Ray Mitcham

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