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Bart Kamp

Then went outside to watch the P. parade

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I believe the LN's on this forum have run out of gas. It appears that they have nothing of value to contribute to our understanding of this particular case. It's little more than circular arguments and personal insults at this point, and it seems to have been this way for quite a while. It's grown tiresome, IMHO. I wouldn't be replying to the LN's in question or addressing the situation at all, but our LN friends are determined to continue to louse up the forum with their nonsense. It's a shame, because I'm sure it discourages other good, fair-minded folks from engaging in the conversation and contributing something of actual value.

It looks like this note is not proof that LHO was outside or on the first floor. It does seem to be proof that LHO's story of being on the lower floors was consistent, and that the authorities didn't want this consistent story to come to light. The LN's failure to understand this should be evidence that they don't really comprehend the evidence. It's okay to admit that. There's lots of evidence I don't comprehend, and hopefully I'll be the first one to admit that. Their refusal to admit that there could be evidence that they don't understand is why they should be more humble.

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1 hour ago, Denny Zartman said:

It's sad that you have nothing better to contribute than attacks and personal insults.

You should be more humble.

Oh, you mean that Greg Burnham, who is a well-known conspiracy advocate, has used "attacks and personal insults" on Bart Kamp, who is also a -- less known -- conspiracy advocate ?
That's not my fault.
Those are his words, not mine.
Can't you see that it is a quote ?
But it goes on to prove that not all conspiracy believers agree with Kamp. And those who don't (Greg Burham, Robert Groden, etc.) do indeed have harsh words, because they are of the opinion that Kamp's theories are nonsensical and harm the conspiracy cause.
Live with it.
Or try to use me as a scapegoat, if it makes you feel better. I don't mind.

Edited by François Carlier

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30 minutes ago, Eddy Bainbridge said:

On an irrelevant point, I thought the picture of Mr Carlier on his posts showed a microphone, but I think its actualy either a sausage or a dark ice-cream cone.

Oh, OK, and soon Vanessa Loney will criticize my posts...

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44 minutes ago, François Carlier said:

Quote :
The “Prayer Man” nonsense is being promoted by yet another snake oil salesman, Bart Kamp. He and Ralph “the fraud” Cinque should get a hotel room. I am so disgusted with these intellectually dishonest charlatans that I vigilantly avoid anything and everything with which they are involved.


What is so "intellectually dishonest" about a hypothesis that says an unknown person on the TSBD steps might be Oswald? Anybody who thinks this way is intellectually warped if you ask me.

 

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1 hour ago, Denny Zartman said:

You should be more humble.

Well, actually, I am humble. Very humble. I defer to the conclusions of experts and witnesses and police officers who were there in the field to investigate the case.
I humbly say that I believe what those very able men told us about the events of November 1963.
But it takes a lot of arrogance and self-importance for Kamp to claim that he knows better than everybody. According to him, everybody is either a l-i-a-r or an accesssory after the fact, or a co-conspirator, or an idiot who is unable to see what he, Kamp, has discovered…
I, for one, am not accusing any of the investigators of being l-i-a-r-s.
Unlike Kamp, I do not pretend that I am so intelligent that I have been able to discover what nobody had discovered beforehand.
Unlike Kamp, I do not pretend to have proved something contrary to what everybody has believed for 55 years.
Unlike Kamp, I do not claim that a man who is inside a building is actually outside, and that those who disagree should be prevented from voicing their opinions.
And you're asking "me" to be humble ? What a joke !

Edited by François Carlier

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29 minutes ago, François Carlier said:

I humbly say that I believe what those very able men told us about the events of November 1963.


That's not being humble Francois, that's being gullible.

By your standards, you would not have believed that the U.S. government was involved in any of the following activities, had they not been exposed by critics like us:

  • The assassination of foreign leaders.
  • Coups carried out in foreign countries.
  • Experimentation of LSD on U.S. citizens without their knowledge or consent.
  • Experimentation of nuclear radiation on U.S. citizens without their knowledge or consent .
  • Plans for false-flag operations where innocent people, including U.S. citizens, would have been injured or killed.
  • The sale of hard drugs to children in order to support activities like those listed above.

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen

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It has always been my opinion that the image on the TSBD stairs is not clear enough to positively identify it as Oswald.

But the discovery of Hosty’s note saying that Oswald said he went outside to watch the parade is significant no matter what excuses the usual naysayers offer us.

WC apologists here tell us Oswald was lying to hide his guilt in the assassination.   Really?  He was so stupid that he shot the President from his own workplace and hoped to get away with it?

Not likely.  Researchers who want to destroy the position of the WC apologists should post, again and again, proof of how much of the so-called “evidence” against LHO in the National Archives is clearly phony.  This was an elaborate set-up, an enormous cover-up, and Oswald was, just as he said he was, a patsy.

Megathanks to Bart Kamp for promoting this important discovery.

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1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

WC apologists here tell us Oswald was lying to hide his guilt in the assassination.   Really?  He was so stupid that he shot the President from his own workplace and hoped to get away with it?

It never fails to amaze me how the LN's can whiplash back and forth between claiming LHO wasn't telling the truth in order to hide his guilt and claiming LHO wanted to earn his place in history.

  • Why did LHO claim to be on the lower floors? He was lying to hide his guilt.
  • Why did LHO not have a getaway plan? He wanted to be caught.
  • Why did LHO deny both murders? He was lying to hide his guilt until he could go to trial and announce his guilt. 🙄
  • Why did LHO order a rifle and a revolver using an alias? He didn't want to be connected to the rifle.
  • Why did LHO order a rifle and a revolver using an alias, (when he could have gone into any gun store in Texas, paid cash, and left no paper trail if he REALLY didn't want to be connected to the rifle) and then carry an ID with that alias with him when committing his crimes? He wanted to be connected to the rifle.
  • Why did LHO have his picture taken with his weapons and with Russian newspapers? He wanted to be connected to the rifle and explain his political motive.
  • Why did LHO deny owning a rifle at all? He was lying to hide his guilt.
  • Why did LHO kill JFK? He desperately wanted to be "somebody" and earn his place in history.
  • Why did LHO say he didn't kill anyone and had nothing against JFK? He was lying to hide his guilt.

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If Oswald wanted to be connected to that rifle (as the backyard photos would seem to indicate), he could have ordered it under his own name. He could have carved his initials into the wood. Instead, he didn't even bother to leave prints on it until after he was dead.

If Oswald didn't want to be connected to that rifle, he could have purchased in person with cash and left no paper trail whatsoever. He also could have, y' know, avoided posing for photos with it, too. That might have helped a little bit.

We're talking about an assassin that had it so together he was able to dash upstairs, use his misaligned rifle to fire two accurate shots (and one shot that missed both the limo and the street surrounding it) at a moving target, wipe the rifle of prints, run a maze of boxes to hide the rifle, dash downstairs past at least one law officer, get outside, board at least two vehicles, and make a clean getaway... but who was so disorganized he drops one of his three wallets at the scene of the Tippit murder, carries around an ID with the alias he used to order a rifle that he plans on denying he owns, and can't think of anywhere better to escape to than a movie theater.

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3 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:


That's not being humble Francois, that's being gullible.

By your standards, you would not have believed that the U.S. government was involved in any of the following activities, had they not been exposed by critics like us:

  • The assassination of foreign leaders.
  • Coups carried out in foreign countries.
  • Experimentation of LSD on U.S. citizens without their knowledge or consent.
  • Experimentation of nuclear radiation on U.S. citizens without their knowledge or consent .
  • Plans for false-flag operations where innocent people, including U.S. citizens, would have been injured or killed.
  • The sale of hard drugs to children in order to support activities like those listed above.

 

Nice job Sandy.  

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The “Prayer Man” nonsense is being promoted by yet another snake oil salesman, Bart Kamp. He and Ralph “the fraud” Cinque should get a hotel room. I am so disgusted with these intellectually dishonest charlatans that I vigilantly avoid anything and everything with which they are involved.
[Greg Burnham Feb. 11 2018.]

If Greg B really said this then he is conceptually wrong. No one who knows the issue could conflate what Bart is doing with what Cinque is doing.  What Cinque is doing was originally backed by Fetzer and was called Doorway Man.  Its an entirely different concept than what Bart is doing.  

For FC to bring that confusion over here shows just how bereft his knowledge of this case is.

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17 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:


The teaching of cursive was being done away with earlier in the century, but is gaining acceptance in the curriculum again.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/once-all-but-left-for-dead-is-cursive-handwriting-making-a-comeback/2016/07/26/24e59d34-4489-11e6-bc99-7d269f8719b1_story.html?utm_term=.a215f635e220

I think it is supposed to be taught in third grade, but so far it hasn't been taught to our third grader.

 

That's a scary thought.  My wife has taught school, 3rd grade for 30 years and they teach cursive handwriting.  Like I said in a previous post, I called the curriculum coordinators for several school districts and they all teach cursive in 3rd grade, some even introduce it at the very end of second grade.

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20 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

If Oswald wanted to be connected to that rifle (as the backyard photos would seem to indicate), he could have ordered it under his own name. He could have carved his initials into the wood. Instead, he didn't even bother to leave prints on it until after he was dead.

If Oswald didn't want to be connected to that rifle, he could have purchased in person with cash and left no paper trail whatsoever. He also could have, y' know, avoided posing for photos with it, too. That might have helped a little bit.

We're talking about an assassin that had it so together he was able to dash upstairs, use his misaligned rifle to fire two accurate shots (and one shot that missed both the limo and the street surrounding it) at a moving target, wipe the rifle of prints, run a maze of boxes to hide the rifle, dash downstairs past at least one law officer, get outside, board at least two vehicles, and make a clean getaway... but who was so disorganized he drops one of his three wallets at the scene of the Tippit murder, carries around an ID with the alias he used to order a rifle that he plans on denying he owns, and can't think of anywhere better to escape to than a movie theater.

Denny, exactly.

There are so many incongruous and illogical actions, words, findings, time lines and other facts and testimonies ( usually involving Oswald more so than Marina, Ruby and others ) that contradict or make no sense that the whole thing together often becomes a murky mind twisting mess.

If this state of illogical and confusing contradictions is the result of a planned truth obfuscating format, I'd say the planners were incredibly successful, almost genius.

Sometimes I am stopped just by pondering the scenario which says Oswald did the shooting of JFK and then Tippit and then tried to shoot and kill DPD officer Nick McDonald in the Texas Theater...knowing that if he was successful in killing McDonald it would have been a last gasp suicide mission initiating a full bore fusilage firing toward him by the other officers present.

What a desperate murder/suicide mad run!

If Oswald really blew JFK's head apart inches from his young wife's face, then just 45 minutes later pumped more bullets up close into Tippit than necessary to kill him and then aggressively tried to blow a hole into officer McDonald in the Texas Theater just one half hour after over-wasting Tippit ... what does one make of Oswald's brutal murder spree and mental state?

The morning of 11,22,1963 Oswald seems calm with Buell Wesley Frazier on his way to work. He doesn't show any anxious behavior during his morning work hours according to those co-workers who say they saw him that morning, and he casually walks ( no mention of his running ) away from the TXSBD and catches a bus and then departs the bus and hails a cab to his apartment after the motorcade shooting chaos.

He changes clothes there and apparently picked up his pistol.

Within minutes of walking away from his rooming house, Oswald is blasting 4 bullets into Tippit and minutes later life and death battling with DPD officers in the Texas Theater.

I am always wondering ( again if this scenario as described by the WC is true ) about the sheer brutality of Oswald's wildly desperate actions that day.

It would take someone seriously pathologically violent and murderous to perform the deeds assigned to Oswald that day.

Was Oswald this cold blooded and violent? Did his personal history reflect this?

Oswald was the husband of a young bride. He was the father of two babies. He loved his children.

He didn't lose his cool after being physically assaulted by Carlos Bringuier in New Orleans just months before 11,22,1963.

Whoever lined up a rifle shot and was willing to blast JFK's head and brains to bloody bits just inches from his wife's face...had to have a true murderer mentality, if not a professional hit man one.

To be able to cut off the normal empathetic feelings of common bond humanity by brutally murdering someone who is not immediately threatening you takes the mind of a cold blooded killer.

Was Oswald this stone cold killer? Had he ever killed anyone before JFK? Blew a hole in their head when they were not an immediate threat to him personally? 

I know, the Walker attempt will be used to paint Oswald this way.

Could Oswald have been programmed to be this brutally violent after a lifetime of not being this way?

Hard to believe Oswald was willing to ruin his children's lives with the actions he took that day. He knew that they might have to grow up and live with the taunting of their being the children of a beloved world leader murderer.  He was willing to have them suffer like this?

Roscoe White allegedly confessed in private to his church pastor that he had killed men in his life. Both on foreign soil and here in the states. White "was" a trained assassin if this confessional story was true.

But was Oswald one as well?

If Oswald killed Tippit, he must have decided that he was going to be killed himself at any minute imo.

Same with DPD officer Nick McDonald.

If Oswald hadn't been shot/lynched in the DPD basement less than two days later, maybe some expert interrogators could have eventually learned the truth about his murder spree and why he was so motivated to kill that afternoon.

But, it's the brutality of Oswald in this killing spree scenario on 11,22,1963 that throws me.  It was so extreme.

Like he had completely snapped!

BLIND RAGE type stuff.  

Yet, Oswald's demeanor once under arrest and under questioning was always described as noticeably calm. He did get angry, defiant and offended in tone at times, but nothing like someone who was out of their mind with killing rage.

Just more conflicting things to ponder regards Oswald and others in this at times surreal story.

 

Edited by Joe Bauer

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BTW, that incredibly scrupulous historian DVP claimed above that assassins don't identify themselves as an excuse for why Oswald did not admit to the crime.

Uh, what did John Wilkes Booth, a famous actor, do after shooting Lincoln?

Now click through here to see what happened to McKinley

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_William_McKinley

Question:  Did Von Pein graduate from  high school?  Maybe that explains it.

Edited by James DiEugenio

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2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

The “Prayer Man” nonsense is being promoted by yet another snake oil salesman, Bart Kamp. He and Ralph “the fraud” Cinque should get a hotel room. I am so disgusted with these intellectually dishonest charlatans that I vigilantly avoid anything and everything with which they are involved.
[Greg Burnham Feb. 11 2018.]

If Greg B really said this then he is conceptually wrong. No one who knows the issue could conflate what Bart is doing with what Cinque is doing.  What Cinque is doing was originally backed by Fetzer and was called Doorway Man.  Its an entirely different concept than what Bart is doing.  

For FC to bring that confusion over here shows just how bereft his knowledge of this case is.

Burnham did say that.

Prayer Man is verboten at his forum., yet I caught him a few years back on buying the google adwords for it 😂

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