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Jim Hargrove

“The lights all went out,” and the elevators stopped while JFK was murdered. Shelley and Lovelady were near the bottom of the back staircase, by the electrical panel... and Vickie Adams saw them ... until everyone's story changed...

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The man Americans know as “Lee Harvey Oswald” wasn’t on the 6th floor of the Book Depository at the time JFK was killed.  Although numerous witnesses saw two men on the 6th floor just before the shooting, both men apparently escaped unseen and unheard at just about time the electricity went off in the building.  

Shelley and Lovelady were at the bottom of the rear stairs near the electric panel when the electricity in the building was shut off.  Young Vickie Adams was running down the rear stairs just before Baker and Truly charged up them, apparently to encounter Oswald entering the lunch room (probably arriving from his position outside the front of the building, where he would use the front staircase to go up to the lunch room, explaining why no one saw him on the rear staircase).  Roy Truly charged up the stairs ahead of Baker without any apparent fear whatsoever of running into an armed assassin.

Victoria Adams was hounded for years because she said she didn't encounter "LHO" on the rear staircase, and she should have if the Warren Commission version was correct.  Shelley and Lovelady distanced themselves ever farther from the TSBD electrical panel for months after their initial statements.

John A. has been working on an important update to his “Escape from the Sixth Floor” page on my website for several weeks.  I just uploaded his latest material a few hours ago. This is a phenomenal read!  To see most of just the latest updates, click on the link below.

https://harveyandlee.net/TSBD_Elevator/TSBD_elevator.html#Electricity

To read “Escape from the Sixth Floor” in it’s entirety, click below:

https://harveyandlee.net/TSBD_Elevator/TSBD_elevator.html

Edited by Jim Hargrove

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Yes, she finally saw the light and gave up.  I believe her 1963 & 64 statements.  She was adamant in the face of confrontation.

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9 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

She was adamant in the face of confrontation.

As was Sandy Serrano before that lying thug Hernandez beat the poor girl into the ground with faux "concern" about "Mrs. Kennedy" and her "Catholic" responsibility. This crowd was really something else. It's not over either. Recall that the 9/11 Report NEVER MENTIONED a 47 story building collapsing on itself, nor the reports of dozens of firefighters who spoke of "explosions" in the buildings. There has been a swamp in DC since 1963; unfortunately it's not being drained as promised.

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Where was Oswald when the lights went out?  Was Shelley with him on the front steps?

Let's go interview Jim Leavelle about this bit:

[Victoria Adams]...told JFK investigator/author Barry Ernest, "One time [at 8:00 PM, February 17, 1964], a detective from the Dallas police (James Leavelle) came to my apartment, showed his badge, and asked to talk with me. I asked him why he needed to talk with me since I had already given my testimony to the Dallas Police. 'Oh,' he responded, 'the records were all burned in a fire we had and we have to interview everyone again. So I once again said the same thing, which at that point felt like ad nauseum." The officer's sudden appearance that evening was strange too because Ms. Adams had only the day before moved to this location, a new apartment. She had not yet notified anyone--not her boss, associates in her office, or even the post office--of her change of address. The apartment was even rented in her roommate's name. Ms. Adams became nervous about how the police had found her and, in hindsight, figures she must somehow have been followed (The Girl on the Stairs).

https://harveyandlee.net/TSBD_Elevator/TSBD_elevator.html#Electricity

Edited by David Andrews

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Well I'm just going from memory, but I thought that the electricity in the building never went out. This assumption was made because one of the ladies said the lights went out on the phone, meaning that there were no phone calls made as the motorcade approached, therefore no phone extension lights were lit. But my memory has been faulty before.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Ron Ecker said:

Well I'm just going from memory, but I thought that the electricity in the building never went out. This assumption was made because one of the ladies said the lights went out on the phone, meaning that there were no phone calls made as the motorcade approached, therefore no phone extension lights were lit. But my memory has been faulty before.

Yes, I’ve heard that argument also.  But numerous witnesses also observed that the power went out to both the passenger elevator in the front of the building and the two freight elevators at the back.  That is quite a coincidence, no?

The witness who said “The lights all went out and the phones became dead” was Geneva Hine, whose interior office was reasonably distant from the windows and had long rows of ceiling lights.
 

Office_Space_East.jpg

 

John discovered that Western Electric supplied the multi-line phones via AT&T, and the Lucite buttons on the phones were lit by the building’s electrical service, not the small amount of current carried in the phone lines.  The TSBD received orders from all over the U.S. and Texas, not just Dallas, and there would be no reason for all calls to stop immediately because of what was happening in Dealey Plaza.
 

Tel_w_Buttons.jpg

Like so much else in this case, this gets complicated quickly because the power seems to have been shut off on two separate occasions.

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JIm,

Okay, thanks. Yeah, I remember now it was Geneva Hines talking about the phones.

 

 

 

 

 

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I may be wrong, however, I see the ceiling light in the first-floor vestibule behind the glass door lit up in Darnell film. I wonder how this could be if the power in the building was out.

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The timing is everything here.  From Mrs. Hine’s testimony, it seems that the lights went out just as the escort car in the motorcade turned from Main St. onto Houston.  We think the electricity was off for only a minute or two, just enough time for the 6th floor assassin(s) to escape through the floor boards into the freight elevator shaft and the elevator itself.

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Will fc read your links and stun us with insults lol .  I will read them later as they sound interesting.  Thanks Jim.

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On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 8:27 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

The man Americans know as “Lee Harvey Oswald” wasn’t on the 6th floor of the Book Depository at the time JFK was killed.  Although numerous witnesses saw two men on the 6th floor just before the shooting, both men apparently escaped unseen and unheard at just about time the electricity went off in the building.  

Shelley and Lovelady were at the bottom of the rear stairs near the electric panel when the electricity in the building was shut off.  Young Vickie Adams was running down the rear stairs just before Baker and Truly charged up them, apparently to encounter Oswald entering the lunch room (probably arriving from his position outside the front of the building, where he would use the front staircase to go up to the lunch room, explaining why no one saw him on the rear staircase).  Roy Truly charged up the stairs ahead of Baker without any apparent fear whatsoever of running into an armed assassin.

Victoria Adams was hounded for years because she said she didn't encounter "LHO" on the rear staircase, and she should have if the Warren Commission version was correct.  Shelley and Lovelady distanced themselves ever farther from the TSBD electrical panel for months after their initial statements.

John A. has been working on an important update to his “Escape from the Sixth Floor” page on my website for several weeks.  I just uploaded his latest material a few hours ago. This is a phenomenal read!  To see most of just the latest updates, click on the link below.

https://harveyandlee.net/TSBD_Elevator/TSBD_elevator.html#Electricity

To read “Escape from the Sixth Floor” in it’s entirety, click below:

https://harveyandlee.net/TSBD_Elevator/TSBD_elevator.html

The Warren Commission thought this information on Shelley and Lovelady was so important they classified it as Top Secret just like they did other things they thought folks shouldn't know about such as Hill Exhibit #5.  I would guess this Top Secret classification would be forever.  But, that didn't happen.

a-adams-top-secret-1.jpg

and, the classification was cancelled some 3 years later.

v-adams-classification-cancelled-11-27-6

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by John Butler

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3 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

The timing is everything here.  From Mrs. Hine’s testimony, it seems that the lights went out just as the escort car in the motorcade turned from Main St. onto Houston.  We think the electricity was off for only a minute or two, just enough time for the 6th floor assassin(s) to escape through the floor boards into the freight elevator shaft and the elevator itself.

Jim,

John's theory about the escape is certainly possible. However, I do think though that one of the assassins was actually confronted by Baker on the 3rd or 4th floor, near the stairs. Baker seemed to think so too, as in his first day affidavit, at the very bottom, almost as an add-on, Baker went out of his way to describe the man he confronted. This was after he had already described the man as cleared by Roy Truly - this is a clear indication that despite Truly's assurance, Baker did not fully believe Truly at that moment and wanted a description in the record. I think at that moment, Baker was trying to be an honest cop.

This is not to say that no one could have escaped via John's way - ultimately down the passenger elevator near the front of the TSBD. Someone may have, and then walked out the front door in the immediate aftermath.

However, John's scenario does raise the big question as to why none of the black employees on the fifth floor ever said anything about someone dropping through the boards from the sixth floor and then pulling up the boards on the fifth floor. Did they not see or hear anything? Were they intimidated into silence? Were they a part of the plot? John must fully address this, as it is a major obstacle to his theory that the escape of the sixth floor conspirators ultimately involved going down the passenger elevator (not the freight elevators.)

We do know that both of the freight elevators were up on the fifth or sixth floor during the assassination, as attested by Truly and Baker. We know that one of the freight elevators came down as the two men were going up. We know that Jack Dougherty told both the DPD and the FBI that he went from the fifth floor to the first floor after hearing a shot. Granted, Dougherty is very unreliable, but I am struck by the fact that neither the DPD nor the FBI mentioned HOW Dougherty claimed to descend from the fifth floor!

Did Dougherty actually take one of the freight elevators down? Or, were the ambiguities and the massive discrepancies in his various statements the result of a mentally retarded man being coerced by the authorities into saying something he neither fully understood nor could remember?

If, as I suspect, one of the assassins came down the freight elevator, then Dougherty's confused accounts were needed to hide that fact. I have found no account of  Dougherty's descent in which he claimed to have taken a freight elevator. 

He may not have. This failure to clear up the ambiguities in his statements was deliberate by the authorities. I think they were hiding something.

One of the conspirators may have descended on a freight elevator. We have proof one of the freight elevators went to the ground floor very soon after the assassination.

One may have been confronted by Baker on the third or fourth floor. We have proof that Baker confronted a suspect - not in the lunchroom, but on the third or fourth floor.

Maybe one (or both of them) descended via John's clever scenario - but there is no evidence for it and the black employees on the fifth floor during the assassination and thereafter are a major obstacle to it.

John needs to address this.

Edited by Paul Jolliffe

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Paul brings up a good question.  Which, might be asked another way.  How many ways are there to go from the 6th floor to the street?

1.  Use one of the two freight elevators.

2.  There were office worker elevators available at the 4th floor offices.

3.  There were the rear steps from the 7th floor to the first.

4.  I believe there was a second set of steps for office workers in the front of the building.  I don't know if these stairs connected to the 4th floor. 

5.  There was a fire escape on all the upper floors.  The lower floor fire escapes were located in the offices or near the offices of supervisors.

I may have some of this wrong working from memory.  I'm sure someone will correct.

But, it does seem to be an elaborate plan to exit the 6th floor through the floor boards.  Maybe a further explanation how this would occur would help with the uncertainty. 

The TSBD is 100 X 100 ft.  That gives 10,000 sq. ft. per floor.  Which means you can not tell what's happening on the north side of the building if you are on the south side or vice versus.  As I understand it each from the 4th up was a jungle of boxes and a maze going through them.  Plenty of cover for someone to hide as say Vickie Adams and Sandra Styles went down the stairs and then a few seconds later be stopped by Truly and Baker on the 3rd or 4th floor.

As far as going down the fire escapes there are no films after the assassination showing the east side fire escapes.

I don't know whether this will be of help to Jim and John.  They probably thought of all of this prior.  So, they must have a good reason to propose the floor board escape plan.

Edited by John Butler

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On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 10:06 AM, Ron Ecker said:

Well I'm just going from memory, but I thought that the electricity in the building never went out. This assumption was made because one of the ladies said the lights went out on the phone, meaning that there were no phone calls made as the motorcade approached, therefore no phone extension lights were lit. But my memory has been faulty before.

 

 

Ron, from page 105, The Girl On The Stairs.  "After the third shot I went out the back door... The elevator was not running and there was no one on the stairs.  I went down to the first floor.  I saw Mr. Shelly and another employee named Bill.  The freight elevator had not moved, and I still did not see anyone on the stairs.  I ran out the back door of the depository and around to the front.  I started down toward the railroad tracks when an officer stopped me and turned me back. … No one had surrounded the building at that time. I went back into the building and to the passenger elevator, But The Power Was Off.  I went to the back to the freight elevator.  There was two plainclothes men on it.  However, the power on it was also turned off.  I walked up the stairs to the fourth floor to my office."  

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Adams and Styles did not meet Shelley and Lovelady as they were busy at that time talking to Gloria Calvery since they had left the front steps.

Adams mentioned in this book during an interview with him that the particular text about this so called encounter was inserted by the WC

From the book

My mention of the Shelley/Lovelady encounter,
however, prompted Ms. Adams to ask that I send her a
copy of her official testimony. She wanted to recheck what
she actually said about the incident. She had not kept a
duplicate of her deposition and had read it only once, in
California some thirty-five years earlier.
“This makes me really wonder about that section in my
testimony,” she wrote after reviewing her words. “It
sounds like the way I did in the rest of the testimony, but I
am beginning to wonder if that [her statements regarding
Shelley and Lovelady] was inserted into my testimony
later.”
Ms. Adams’ testimony quoted her as saying she spoke
in passing to both men, offering the thought that Kennedy
may have been shot. She told me she did, in fact, recall
making that comment to someone on the first floor. But it
was not, she said, to Shelley or Lovelady.
“I remember saying to a fairly big black man inside the
building right near the loading dock right after I got down
the stairs that I thought the president may have been shot. I
don’t know what his name is. I do know that he worked for
the Depository and I think he was a warehouse worker.

 

and

 

“And how could I have seen them on the first floor
anyway if they were outside the building for that long.
When I came down they wouldn’t have returned yet.
“They weren’t there,” she emphasized.

 

CE496 is supposed to show the spot where she encountered Shelley and Lovelady, yet CE496 is nothing but Oswald's copy of an application for work at the TSBD.....

They met a tall black man instead, who is most likely Eddie Piper.

Sandra Styles in Chapter 30

“A few people were milling around on the first floor,”
she said. “One was a black man.” That was apparently the
same man Ms. Adams had mentioned. I casually asked her
if William Shelley or Billy Lovelady were there.
“No,” she said, emphasizing she would have
recognized them, since she knew both men well.

The  there is Sean Murphy's contact with Styles,in which Adams told Styles off the cuff that she noticed the elevator cables moving. Google that and that should keep you occupied a tad ;)

I am going to go through the article and get back at you, but right now I am too swamped with things to do.

Edited by Bart Kamp

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