Dealey Plaza, 18 February 2019

[Rick McTague]

I decided to use this President's Day to do my annual walk around Dealey Plaza.  I park in the same lot off Elm each time, get a nice and hot double cheeseburger at the Record Grill, and stroll on down to Houston and Elm.  Pretty crowded today, many groups, and several folks like me, regular people walking the scene of the crime of the last century.

 

I started by walking down the service road, behind the pergola, around a fence to emerge near where Abraham Zapruder stood on the concrete block.  These were taken at that spot:

I walked a little out front of there to see around the overgrown live oaks and took a panoramic shot, please forgive the movement of cars and people:

I walked to the west, to the steps and up and behind the wooden fence.  I took this shot about 4' from the corner of the fence where there is a 90 degree turn to the north, so this is about where Badgeman and his spotter were standing:

I walked about 25' to the west, and once there was a clearing between the trees to the "X" in the street, took this pic:

On walking to the west end of the fence to access the overpass, you can see to the west Stemmons Freeway (white bridge), where Ed Hoffman saw the shooter and accomplice right about where I was standing.  Note that Stemmons rises up to provide a better view of the fence/parking lot area:

A view of the grassy knoll and Elm from the northern part of the TUP:

This is the view standing atop Main street, the center street between Elm and Commerce:

This 

This is a shot standing directly atop where James Tague was standing, where Main and Commerce Meet.  This is in the area of Sherry Feister's trajectories: 

I walked down to about 20' of the end of the TUP where the access to the South Knoll is gated and locked.  You could get around this by walking east, then south to access the parking lot.  Does anyone know if this security fence was in place in 11/1963?

I went to the extreme southern end of the TUP and took this shot:

And another panoramic pic, again please forgive the movement of vehicles.  This weird stoner girl (far left) walked up there with an old school dad pipe and lit that baby up.  Random, right?

On my way back to the street level, I took another shot facing west towards Stemmons, with the fence corner included for context.  I could make out cars and trucks (since traffic was at a standstill) with fairly good detail.  Looking back the other way like Ed Hoffman did, he could certainly see men, what they were wearing and what they were doing.  Not close enough to ID anyone but definitely enough to see their actions.

Standing with my back to the fence, looking at the location of Lee Bowers in the control station.  No way could he see anything on the Elm side of the fence, because of the trees and fence, but he did have a very clear sight to what happened behind the fence:

Back on street level again, I thought I'd try to recreate as best I cold some famous pics.  My first attempt was a close-up of the TSBD entryway as seen in Altgens 6.  I pulled up on on my phone to determine where the concrete abutment and tree were, and the doorway is right in between them.  Of course, the tree was much smaller in 1963:

First, here is Altgens 6:

Here is my attempt at a full-size version.  I had to walk quite a ways west down Elm to get the right angle for the doorway, which was my reference point:

While I was there I thought I'd shoot back towards the southern side of the TUP.  Imagine James Tague standing on that narrow concrete slab between Main and Commerce.  This also includes the storm drain where Roger Craig was standing while plainclothes officers inspected the ground for furrow caused by a shot; one of them picked up something and put it in his pocket.  While there, Roger Craig heard a loud whistle from the other side of Elm and saw LHO run down the short hill and get into a Nash Ramber station wagon:

Next, I tried to copy Mary Moorman's Polaroid:

I have NO IDEA who the old coot was on the sidewalk, he didn't move too much.  Cold day in Dallas:

I tried cropping these to closely match the originals.

Next, I wanted to get a current pic of the doorway from the Weigman (?) film that shows Prayer "It's Lee" Man:

I walked across the street, went back up Elm, got in my car, drove down Elm in the center lane, took the Stemmons exit and drove by Parkland and on home.

That's about it.

Thanks

Edited February 19, 2019 by Rick McTague
Correcting a few grammatical and formatting problems.

[Tony Krome]

Excellent photos! The furrow you mentioned was seen by Richard Carr as it happened according to his Shaw trial testimony

[Tony Krome]

33 minutes ago, Rick McTague said:

 

 

How many feet from the curb were you when this photo was taken? thanks

[Joe Bauer]

What a gift Rick.

Thank you so much.

I will never see Dealey Plaza in person in my lifetime.

Just don't have the time, money and health.

So it is real nice to see it through your photos.

A lot of neat and thought provoking angles and perspectives too.

Your photos made me feel like I was actually there.

Dealey Plaza will always be a soul wrenching place to me.

I think I would have the most profound thoughts and feelings if I could go there and stand and just contemplate what went on there on 11,22,1963.

It's definitely a shrine isn't it. 

Seeing pictures of it on 11,22,1963 always seems like a surreal dream to me.

Boy, they sure have let those Texas Live Oaks in the Plaza grow.

Too overgrown in my opinion.

Also, the grass there dies back in Winter I can see.

I watched a part of a documentary the other night, showing the interior side of the sixth floor windows in the TXSBD building. The ones facing West and looking down on the path of the JFK motorcade. 

What struck me was how low to the floor those windows were.

Oswald must have been either on his knees or laying down to have any visual sighting and firing ability and room imo. The part of the window he shot from was the open lower half.

So low. 

The arched windows also were low to the floor. Any 6 ft. man standing behind those low windows would be impossible to see in his entire height.

Thanks again Rick.

Appreciatively, Joe B.

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2019 by Joe Bauer

[Adam Johnson]

Great Photos, thanks for posting Rick.

[Chris Scally]

Thanks for posting these great pictures, Rick. They are very helpful and informative for anyone who hasn't been to Dealey Plaza for whatever reason. Strange how, despite the passing years and the subtle changes in the Plaza, it somehow still remains the same !

 

[David Andrews]

Nobody will like this post.

In The Men Who Killed Kennedy, the Corsican Mob criminal Christian David gave hints to the assassination, and claimed that the real story was in an envelope that his lawyer would open if David were released.  David, and interviewer Steve Rivele, have since been discredited.

However, one of the hints David dropped was (paraphrase): "You have to understand, one of the shots was almost on the level" (with the limo).

I've always wondered if we could count on the designation "one of the shots" as insider information on a shooting position, perhaps heard third-hand, and perhaps true.

Dealey Plaza offers several sites to ponder where that one shooting position was: Grassy Knoll, Dal-Tex window, others.

I won't blame anyone for discounting this, and there are plenty of reasons to.

Edited February 19, 2019 by David Andrews

[Andrew Prutsok]

Thanks for the tour.

[Rick McTague]

16 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

How many feet from the curb were you when this photo was taken? thanks

Tony,

I stepped out one step - maybe 2' - into Elm to take this pic.

Thanks

[Rick McTague]

1 hour ago, David Andrews said:

Nobody will like this post.

In The Men Who Killed Kennedy, the Corsican Mob criminal Christian David gave hints to the assassination, and claimed that the real story was in an envelope that his lawyer would open if David were released.  David, and interviewer Steve Rivele, have since been discredited.

However, one of the hints David dropped was (paraphrase): "You have to understand, one of the shots was almost on the level" (with the limo).

I've always wondered if we could count on the designation "one of the shots" as insider information on a shooting position, perhaps heard third-hand, and perhaps true.

Dealey Plaza offers several sites to ponder where that one shooting position was: Grassy Knoll, Dal-Tex window, others.

I won't blame anyone for discounting this, and there are plenty of reasons to.

David,

If I had to guess on this, I would say the shallow back shot (first one to hit JFK) came from the Dal-Tex building window.  It's hard to understand the slope of Elm looking up; it really down have a significant downward slope while curving to the left.  Since JFK said (according to Kellerman) "My God, I'm hit!", the frontal throat shot could not have been the first one to hit him.  Firing down Elm, just a short distance from the turn from Houston, would be considered a shot "almost on the level".

Thanks

Rick

[Rick McTague]

15 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

What a gift Rick.

Thank you so much.

I will never see Dealey Plaza in person in my lifetime.

Just don't have the time, money and health.

So it is real nice to see it through your photos.

A lot of neat and thought provoking angles and perspectives too.

Your photos made me feel like I was actually there.

Dealey Plaza will always be a soul wrenching place to me.

I think I would have the most profound thoughts and feelings if I could go there and stand and just contemplate what went on there on 11,22,1963.

It's definitely a shrine isn't it. 

Seeing pictures of it on 11,22,1963 always seems like a surreal dream to me.

Boy, they sure have let those Texas Live Oaks in the Plaza grow.

Too overgrown in my opinion.

Also, the grass there dies back in Winter I can see.

I watched a part of a documentary the other night, showing the interior side of the sixth floor windows in the TXSBD building. The ones facing West and looking down on the path of the JFK motorcade. 

What struck me was how low to the floor those windows were.

Oswald must have been either on his knees or laying down to have any visual sighting and firing ability and room imo. The part of the window he shot from was the open lower half.

So low. 

The arched windows also were low to the floor. Any 6 ft. man standing behind those low windows would be impossible to see in his entire height.

Thanks again Rick.

Appreciatively, Joe B.

 

 

 

Joe,

You are sure welcome; folks that don't have the privilege of living in Texas  and can't otherwise visit DP is why I made that post.  

I do the same - walk, stand and contemplate - it is a shrine.  It is also highly offensive to me the young people who run out into Elm onto the "X" and smile for a picture.  It happens many many times each time I visit and it's really disturbing.  

I agree wholeheartedly on the lack of trimming of the live oaks; they are really overgrown.  And yes, the typical Texas lawns are brown through winter.

There isn't but maybe 12"-14" from the floor in the TSBD to the bottom edge of the windows - absolutely correct on that.  A shooter would have to be in the sitting position or leaning down.

The thing that isn't captured here is how small and tight the entire DP area is.  Not much distance, maybe 30'? from the turn on Elm to the first "X".  Then a little ways down and there is the second "X" then a little more ways down and you're under the TUP and on Stemmons.  Doesn't take but 10 seconds or so to drive it at normal speed.

Glad you liked the pics, thank you.

[Stephanie Goldberg]

Late to the topic, but I wanted to say thank you for posting these photos!  I've been through DFW, but I've never been TO Dallas.  Your photos bring an immediacy which gives it a you-are-there feeling.

I've always heard that Dealey Plaza is much smaller in person than it looks when you see it on TV or in photographs.  Your remarks seem to confirm those observations.  

Question - you're able to walk back behind the picket fence and up over the triple underpass without any problems?  (As in - you don't have to crawl over fences and hope that people don't start yelling 'Hey, you!' while you're checking out these areas?)

[David Von Pein]

Excellent images of the Plaza, Rick.

You've provided a perfect reason for me to update and expand my "Dealey Through The Years" webpage with a "2019" entry. Thanks.

Here's my Dealey Plaza page below. I think you'll enjoy looking through it (if you haven't already)....

 

 

[Adam Johnson]

These were interesting to look at........JFK then and Now mash up images from 2013......even has a Back Yard Photo from West Neely Street.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2509799/JFK-brought-life-photo-trickery.html

[Adam Johnson]

Also found this recently...

 http://www.aparchive.com/metadata/youtube/7e17c15be2cac3ef19ed8caa427d87f8