Ron Bulman Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Is it a realistic possibility? At least two, quite possibly three men were on the sixth floor. They had to get away some how, the stairs are pretty well ruled out. The passenger elevator went up to the fourth floor, it's shaft to the fifth floor. I've written no books on the assassination , I'm not arguing with John Armstrong about accessing the fourth floor elevator from the sixth through it's floor, but the freight elevators are about the only alternative. And I didn't want the thought buried in Jim Hargove's well read thread. I'd come to think myself that whoever shot from the sixth floor, his spotter/communications guy, and maybe a lookout ran soon as a couple of shots were fired (to distract, cause the Secret Service to look back up and right - see Altegens - while JFJ was shot from the front). They didn't stay and watch, they ran while some were hitting the ground or standing there stunned wondering what they had seen, to the waiting freight elevator, threw the gun in a pre planned spot near it, got on, went down. Ran out through the back dock. There are statements supporting the latter part. Jim H commented on the power out thread they would have been seen on the freight elevators. Not necessarily. They were back to back. one facing east towards the open warehouse floor, the other facing west towards the stairs. Standing in the back right corner of the west facing elevator at least a couple of people might not have. Not that many were on the floors to observe them at the time. When they got to the first floor there was a overhead door immediately to their right onto the back dock... How long did it take the freight elevator to go from the 6th to 1st floor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Krome Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 How long did it take the freight elevator to go from the 6th to 1st floor? 30 seconds from 7th to 1st according to Lovelady https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10406#relPageId=338&tab=page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tony Krome said: How long did it take the freight elevator to go from the 6th to 1st floor? 30 seconds from 7th to 1st according to Lovelady https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10406#relPageId=338&tab=page Interesting. I figured closer to a minute, maybe even more. So if they ran after the last shot, from the sixth floor, they could have been on the first floor in close to a minute after the last shot from there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Santos Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) Realistically, in speaking with several people whose opinion I would trust in this type of matter, if cover during an evacuation is not strong, then they hide. As such, it is highly possible that if it was not LHO but one or more other conspirators, then they had a concealed position in the TSBD that was safe enough that they simply waited to leave later when there was less chance of discovery. I am not saying that I think the above is what happened, I am merely pointing out another possible scenario. Edited March 7, 2019 by Cory Santos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Krome Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said: Interesting. I figured closer to a minute, maybe even more. So if they ran after the last shot, from the sixth floor, they could have been on the first floor in close to a minute after the last shot from there? That would have been possible BUT I don't think they counted on Baker running into the TSBD and arriving at the elevators so quickly So there was a delay due to Baker being spotted and a message would have been relayed to the 6th floor When Baker and Truly arrived at the elevators, both elevators appeared to be level on 5 and not moving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 11 minutes ago, Cory Santos said: Realistically, in speaking with several people whose opinion I would trust in this type of matter, if cover during an evacuation is not strong, then they hide. As such, it is highly possible that if it was not LHO but one or more other conspirators, then they had a concealed position in the TSBD that was safe enough that they simply waited to leave later when there was less chance of discovery. I am not saying that I think the above is what happened, I am merely pointing out another possible scenario. True enough possibility. Maybe one of them was the man observed by Baker on the 3rd or 4th floor. A couple were observed exiting the rear/ east side of the TSBD immediately after though. They had some reason to exit at the time in a hurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 I question how quickly Baker and Truly really got there. Some wonder if Baker ran past the TSBD entrance first. Even if not Baker had to have had time after the last shots were fired to park and get off his bike then run towards the TSBD entrance. Truly caught up to him after he was inside the entrance, questioning, an employee about access to the stairs or elevator whom Truly told him was an employee, then to follow me, I'm the building manager. Then led him, unarmed himself, to search for an assassin. What a brave man was Truly. Irregardless, two or three men had to get off the sixth floor pretty quickly. By the 4th floor passenger elevator, stairs, or freight elevators. Maybe Cory's right the drifted down and hid in place. Maybe a badgeman or two who waited on the rest of the DPD to arrive to blend in, or just suits or workers. I don't know but I don't think so. I think they ran like hell to get away. Maybe Richard Carr really did see a brown suit on the 6th floor, then running out of the back of the TSBD, south on Houston, then west on main. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 I think I saw photos of these elevators. IIRC, they were open not closed compartments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Krome Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 13 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said: I question how quickly Baker and Truly really got there. Some wonder if Baker ran past the TSBD entrance first. Even if not Baker had to have had time after the last shots were fired to park and get off his bike then run towards the TSBD entrance. Truly caught up to him after he was inside the entrance, questioning, an employee about access to the stairs or elevator whom Truly told him was an employee, then to follow me, I'm the building manager. Then led him, unarmed himself, to search for an assassin. What a brave man was Truly. Irregardless, two or three men had to get off the sixth floor pretty quickly. By the 4th floor passenger elevator, stairs, or freight elevators. Maybe Cory's right the drifted down and hid in place. Maybe a badgeman or two who waited on the rest of the DPD to arrive to blend in, or just suits or workers. I don't know but I don't think so. I think they ran like hell to get away. Maybe Richard Carr really did see a brown suit on the 6th floor, then running out of the back of the TSBD, south on Houston, then west on main. Whether Baker arrived at the elevators a little later or not doesn't matter, the point is, if he was spotted sprinting from his motor to the TSBD entrance, this would have caused a delay. They couldn't take a chance that the 6th floor boys could elevate down to the 1st floor and out before being seen by an officer The WEST freight elevator escape is still plausible in that while Truly and Baker are stomping up the stairs, that elevator is descending. That is the exact scenario the WC concluded regarding Baker/Truly going up stairs simultaneously with the WEST elevator coming down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, Tony Krome said: Whether Baker arrived at the elevators a little later or not doesn't matter, the point is, if he was spotted sprinting from his motor to the TSBD entrance, this would have caused a delay. They couldn't take a chance that the 6th floor boys could elevate down to the 1st floor and out before being seen by an officer The WEST freight elevator escape is still plausible in that while Truly and Baker are stomping up the stairs, that elevator is descending. That is the exact scenario the WC concluded regarding Baker/Truly going up stairs simultaneously with the WEST elevator coming down That last part has been my thought for several years. Truly supposedly looked up the shaft, because they wouldn't come down, electricity off or gate open. He called, no response, he and Baker ran up to the second floor to intercept Oswald in the breakroom... Then while they continued to the 6th floor, and seventh, one elevator descended. Truly noted one of the freight elevators had descended by the time they got to the fifth floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Krome Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said: That last part has been my thought for several years. Truly supposedly looked up the shaft, because they wouldn't come down, electricity off or gate open. He called, no response, he and Baker ran up to the second floor to intercept Oswald in the breakroom... Then while they continued to the 6th floor, and seventh, one elevator descended. Truly noted one of the freight elevators had descended by the time they got to the fifth floor. When Truly and Baker arrived on the 5th, the WEST elevator had gone, so they jumped on the EAST elevator and went to the 7th floor then up to the roof So the WEST elevator had descended before they arrived indicating NO cut to power/electricity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 29 minutes ago, Tony Krome said: When Truly and Baker arrived on the 5th, the WEST elevator had gone, so they jumped on the EAST elevator and went to the 7th floor then up to the roof So the WEST elevator had descended before they arrived indicating NO cut to power/electricity Not necessarily. It could still been cut off and on, more than once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Krome Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 53 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said: Not necessarily. It could still been cut off and on, more than once. I'm talking about power to the elevators. The only indications I've seen (on record) regarding power cuts to elevators, occur at approx 12:40pm. 1. Mooney [WEST elevator] 2. Adams [Passenger elevator] 3. Adams [WEST elevator] The only other power cut indication I've seen is what Hines reported prior to the motorcade arriving, and there was no mention of power cut to elevators at that point in time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) I have never seen many photos of the inside of the 6th floor and along the entire wall of windows overlooking Houston and Elm. This discussion of the elevators is also hard to follow without seeing the elevators themselves. Can anyone provide pictures of the actual elevators? Edited March 8, 2019 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Joe Bauer said: I have never seen many photos of the inside of the 6th floor and along the entire wall of windows overlooking Houston and Elm. This discussion of the elevators is also hard to follow without seeing the elevators themselves. Just now, while looking at clips from the 1973 film "Executive Action" I came across this one. It features supposed JFK assassination advance planning men checking out firing positions in Dealey Plaza. What's really nice is it actually shows these locations ( filmed on sight at Dealey) and specifically the 6th floor of the TXSCB building with a great shot of the elevator in question. See the elevator at the 1:18 second mark of the clip. Take a look. Executive Action (1973) clip 1 of 2 clips. CircuitBreaker1582 • 14K views11 years ago People have posted recently about the "wide ledge" that would have discouraged shooting from the roof of the TSBD. To put it in architectural language, there's a wide decorative cornice circling the building just below the not very wide top of the wall (perhaps 5' high) That encloses the roof. there's another cornice above the sixth floor windows. This was a visual motif used to set the top floor of a building apart from the lower floors, making the building look taller and perhaps accenting that the top floor could have some exclusivity. (A third cornice is used above the first floor to attract street traffic.) The upper cornice is taller and made of a different material than the facade, providing a 'capital' or head to the top of the building. From the brief helicopter shot in Executive Action, it's hard to judge if the cornice would limit shooting at all target positions, if one were standing only on the roof surface. But with the wall and the cornice, no spot up there seems choice. One thing people don't consider is the pigeons that would congregate on such a ledge. Did a flock really take off at once when shots were fired, as depicted in JFK? Or will we find that pigeons were impossible at that time of year, like the condition of the Live Oak below the windows. A grim amusement found on the internet: http://copycateffect.blogspot.com/2011/08/tsbd.html Own it! Edited March 8, 2019 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now