Man arrested at back of Texas Theater

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Joseph McBride said:

Please spell Tippit correctly. It's been 55-plus years now.

I'm afraid I'm guilty too.  In addition to Larry's Tippett I know I've posted Tippitt in the past myself, if I don't take time to look at your book's binding on the shelf next to me.  I'm pretty sure over the years I've seen it also as Tipitt or maybe Tipett or worse.  No excuse on my part, other than at 62 I think I'm catching up to what Larry says about precise faster than he got there.  I catch myself saying are you sure?  Then sometimes I don't and miss the squiggly little lines fom spell check.  Of course your right, we should all spell the name correctly, most especially anyone doing research on the internet on the subject for the sake of accuracy.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Ron Bulman

[Larry Hancock]

To be totally honest I do check such things as names and titles when I blog;  when I write for publication do that and then I rely on editors or on occasion pay supplemental editors myself.  However when I post on forums or Facebook I normally don't,  probably a sin but hopefully a minor one.  As to the punctuation, I think of it as being creative - my wife and my editors seem to have other opinions.

[John Kozlowski]

3 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

To be totally honest I do check such things as names and titles when I blog;  when I write for publication do that and then I rely on editors or on occasion pay supplemental editors myself.  However when I post on forums or Facebook I normally don't,  probably a sin but hopefully a minor one.  As to the punctuation, I think of it as being creative - my wife and my editors seem to have other opinions.

Larry I am just now getting into watching the interviews that Gene Wheaton did. I know you and others have written about him but wanted to finish the interviews before I got into any of that stuff. Does most of what he says match up with what you have found out about him?

[Larry Hancock]

Hi John, yes our research to date has corroborated virtually everything about the information he provided to the ARRB....some of which we fed back to him in the interview, shocking him a bit because he assumed it had been kept confidential.

David Boylan and I have been working this lead for some months now and I presented a first draft research paper last November in Dallas....you will find a link to it in the blog post below.  We have gone much further than that now, I think we are in version 6.0 of our research document and I suppose we need to get that in circulation soon.  I had hoped we might finally resolve the Red Bird mystery pilot as part of this story but so far we have been unable to locate the one guy who may have been able to tie that down...although we have shared the name with some excellent researchers who may run it to ground.

Basically it has let me back to two tracks which both connect to Rip Robertson and point towards a set of people who went to Dallas, some as the shooter team and others in support roles.  While I admit that may not be the full story (there are some connections to Tracy Barnes which I'm still pursuing) its my personal view that it gives us a great deal of the story about the actual attack in the Plaza.   Wheaton never claimed to know any details, he simply heard some names mentioned as being involved and it is those names which we have been pursuing.  Check the link in this blog post for the first version of our research paper. :

https://larryhancock.wordpress.com/2018/11/21/the-wheaton-names-continued/

[Joseph McBride]

I am glad we agree on "Tippit." Also his initials

do not stand for "Jefferson Davis," as some sources

keep claiming. His father told me he named him

with the initials J. D. after a character of that

name in a book he liked.

[Jim Hargrove]

On 8/5/2019 at 11:46 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

Carl Mather refused to speak to the FBI.  From HSCA volume 12, p. 39: “Mrs. Carl A. Mather was interviewed by FBI Agent Charles T. Brown on December 5, 1963, at the Mather home at 4303 Colgate Street in Garland, Tex. . . .  No FBI report of an interview or contact with Carl Mather was located.”

Mather refused to testify to the HSCA until he was granted immunity.  As of some years ago (I haven’t checked recently) his testimony was still “postponed in full.”  If someone has more recent information on Mather’s HSCA testimony, please let us know.

Just wanted to ask again if anyone has seen anything on Carl Mather's HSCA testimony, which apparently has been buried for decades.

[Ron Bulman]

53 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Just wanted to ask again if anyone has seen anything on Carl Mather's HSCA testimony, which apparently has been buried for decades.

He didn't testify.  Blakey gave him immunity but he was never brought or called in and sworn in for testimony.  Instead he was interviewed in his own home.  And lied.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TtPGzoReDG75d2ap4Upudttna1_3jJ0P/view

Thanks Bart/Malcom.  

[Ron Bulman]

On 8/4/2019 at 6:36 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

Larry,

I've been sidelined for several days and am now trying to catch up.  Is this the doc you're seeking?
 

I'm no researcher and don't know where to look.  But I'd be interested in FBI file # DL 100-10460 and DL 100-10462, maybe a couple of more each way.  Do they relate to it in any way?  Are any of them missing?

[Jim Hargrove]

43 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

He didn't testify.  Blakey gave him immunity but he was never brought or called in and sworn in for testimony.  Instead he was interviewed in his own home.  And lied.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TtPGzoReDG75d2ap4Upudttna1_3jJ0P/view

Thanks Bart/Malcom.  

Megathanks, Ron!  I was always under the impression that Mather testified and that it was "Postponed in full," but I can't find the reference I seemed to remember.  Mather clearly was all too nervous about his situation....

And he CLEARLY was granted immunity by the HSCA.  Too bad the Select Committee didn't want to know the truth!!

 

[John Kozlowski]

11 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

I'm no researcher and don't know where to look.  But I'd be interested in FBI file # DL 100-10460 and DL 100-10462, maybe a couple of more each way.  Do they relate to it in any way?  Are any of them missing?

If you decide to search for files I’d recommend either the Mary Ferrell site or theblackvault.com. Both of those have a search function which makes it a little easier than the national archives  site to find files.

[Ron Bulman]

On 8/5/2019 at 1:54 PM, Larry Hancock said:

The lack of the Mather FBI interview....I am betting there was one....and the HSCA immunity in particular is striking and I am going to speculate it has to do with knowledge of Lee Oswald.  There is really no other good reason for it unless Tippett revealed something to him that would be pretty stunning. 

I agree we won't solve the case from documents but as PDS said long ago, holes in the document trail can be quite important and this is a striking one....comparable to the fact that the CIA had soft files on Roy Hargraves and Sylvia Odio which were denied to the HSCA but do show up in a very short list of soft files (which usually mean local office or operational files with copies not necessarily kept at HQ).

Would be interesting to post a short list of HSCA immunity testimonies, I only recall one off the top of my head and that was from the Miami Cuban who torpedoed Garrison's investigation.

Good find and this one probably deserves a thread of its own.

 

 

I don't know enough beyond what's been said to start a new thread.  Nor how to transfer all that info to it.  Since John's thread has been diverted,  though it does relate, is the man seen taken out the back of the Texas Theater resembling Oswald the same one seen by T.F. White in the red falcon (?), I'll continue here, I don't think John will mind.  

First, the John Armstrong link by Jim Hargove is convincing about it being a red ford falcon.  Wise wrote down the license number.  White told him a red ford falcon.  He didn't write that down.  The FBI told him the Dallas tax office said it was a 57 4 door Plymouth.  He wrote this down, on the same napkin as the license number.  When interviewed he told them a red 57 Plymouth.  In turn they interviewed experienced mechanic T.F. White who said it was a red ford falcon, intrigued by sirens and radio reports he walked across the street and observed the car and Oswald from 15'away.  Why would Mather's plates be on a red ford falcon?  Why was Mather never questioned about it under oath?

Why was his wife interviewed about it in 1963 but not him?  From what it says previously the Dallas county tax office said the Plymouth was in His name.  With their curiosity piqued by his wife's statements about their being former neighbors and close friends, enough for him to leave work at 2:30 for them to go console Marie, how could they not want to interview him too?

Did they?  Is it lost or disappeared?  Anything at all in the documents released in the last few years?   Did he use a security clearance at Collins Radio to refuse to talk to them?  Is that even possible?  James Douglas Unspeakable is close to as well respected by some as Larry Hancock's Someone Would Have Talked.  Douglas trust's Wes Wise enough to quote him from a 2005 interview on this, regarding Mather using his CIA security clearance to not talk to the FBI.  Wise did bring the subject to light in the first place.  Douglas says Wise did remember it all vividly, and re tracing a few years later (under similar light,  on an 11/22) White's observances shown to him personally by White, and points out Wise saving the Texas School Book Depository from demolition.  By the same token I read a hit piece on Wise from 1975 regarding his ambition yesterday.  Wise is still alive.  Lucid, I don't know.  Who told him Mather used his CIA clearance to not talk to the FBI in 1963?  Why did Mather lie to the HSCA in his own house in 1978?  With immunity, why was he not brought in to testify under oath?  

[Larry Hancock]

About all I can say is that I have followed the ins and outs of this for a long time, being especially interested in some connections to the Mexican restaurant which was in front of the parking lot where the car was sighted, possible connections to where Oswald was dropped off by the taxi,  a connection to the House on Harlandale, etc. It drives me nuts.  I also find it hard to believe the FBI interviewed his wife twice and not him...but thinking his security clearance would stop them is nonsense, sure he had a clearance if he worked on one of the presidential aircraft for a military contractor but that would mean nothing to the FBI investigating a crime.  I also don't really trust any interviews made decades after the fact, there is just too much evidence of a variety of problems with such delayed statements.

But this certainly would not be the only lead the FBI blew with a superficial inquiry, look how badly they failed on the whole house on Harlandale lead or with Odio. 

My gut tells me there is something important here but what it is eludes me.

[Ron Bulman]

19 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

About all I can say is that I have followed the ins and outs of this for a long time, being especially interested in some connections to the Mexican restaurant which was in front of the parking lot where the car was sighted, possible connections to where Oswald was dropped off by the taxi,  a connection to the House on Harlandale, etc. It drives me nuts.  I also find it hard to believe the FBI interviewed his wife twice and not him...but thinking his security clearance would stop them is nonsense, sure he had a clearance if he worked on one of the presidential aircraft for a military contractor but that would mean nothing to the FBI investigating a crime.  I also don't really trust any interviews made decades after the fact, there is just too much evidence of a variety of problems with such delayed statements.

But this certainly would not be the only lead the FBI blew with a superficial inquiry, look how badly they failed on the whole house on Harlandale lead or with Odio. 

My gut tells me there is something important here but what it is eludes me.

Larry, you allude to what is a key point to me on why this is still intriguing.  Mather and the red falcon of course.  But also, "Oswald" (which one?) being dropped off in the same place, the El Chico parking lot in essence, 5 blocks South of his rooming house, before Tippit was killed.  Then seen, close up, 15' feet away by T.F. White when "Oswald" was already arrested.  Doesn't make sense in light of the official explanation, or lack of.  Drives me nuts too.  Whaley's initial statement and White's both seem legit but are impossible without two Oswald's.

BTW, if you come back to Dallas, I've never ate at that one but El Chico's serves excellent authentic Mexican food in a few other locations.  For 70-80 years now.  Eat early or bring antacid's. 

[Jim Hargrove]

7 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

I also don't really trust any interviews made decades after the fact, there is just too much evidence of a variety of problems with such delayed statements.

Larry,

In any ordinary case I might agree with you, but not in this one.  You would have us just go over again and again the same lies, altered statements, fake documents, and falsified evidence we’ve been fed for all these years?  Do you seriously say we should not listen to the last few surviving witnesses to events of that era?  What a terrible idea!

[Larry Hancock]

Jim, there is simply a huge body of solid evidence demonstrating that witnesses' memories begin to stray from the actual facts of an event even hours and days after the event.  I'm sure you are familiar with these studies. Part of it is perceptual, part influenced by information they encounter, etc.  Tests have shown that after some period of time, months and certainly years people telling a version of a story can be shown their original statements or even their written records made at the time and deny they are correct...they have overlaid their memories to the point of denying themselves.

Now of course that applies largely to details, to timing, to descriptions etc.  If they saw a car wreck, they remember seeing a car wreck...can you trust the color they remember, the number of people they saw, the comments they quote etc....that becomes more questionable.

Certainly I would not throw out all later day interview data, but it needs to be consistent and corroborative.  And I would question it as to what level of detail they are describing.  I'm a firm believer in "first day" comments overriding interviews made years later, that has nothing to do with faked materials or falsified evidence.  I'm also a firm believer in the risk of overreach i.e. finding what you are looking for.....I've seen it happen way to often and I have seen first hand how sincere (and not sincere) researchers can unintentionally "expand" witness content though interaction/feedback with them.

So am I conservative on witnesses, yes....am I possibly overcautious...maybe....but that's the way I approach my research, nobody else has to be burdened by it. As my guru Ricky Nelson said in a song..."You can't please everybody so  you might as well please yourself".  

Edited August 7, 2019 by Larry Hancock