Jump to content
The Education Forum
Ron Bulman

Temple Logic?

Recommended Posts

13 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

 

Didn't Jerrol Custer say that he didn't remember seeing any brain in the cranium? If so, is the skull cavity he drew even large enough to remove the brain?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

Custer was not a back-of-the head witness. He was actually quite the opposite.

 

From patspeer.com, chapter 18c:

While radiology tech Jerrol Custer made many statements in the 80's and 90's indicating that he thought the autopsy photos and X-rays were faked, he actually told the ARRB, after having finally been shown the original X-rays, that they were indeed the ones he took on 11-22-63, and that he had been in error. He even specified that the x-rays showed an absence of bone in the parietal region and the temporal region behind the right eye, but a presence of bone in the occipital region. Now, some will say "But of course he caved, he was scared to death" but they really haven't done their homework. Custer told the ARRB a number of things which defied the official story of the assassination. He just didn't tell them what so many conspiracy theorists wanted him to say. 

And it's not as if he changed his statements for the ARRB. Custer was interviewed by Tom Wilson in 1995. As quoted in Donald Phillips' book on Wilson's research, A Deeper, Darker Truth (2009), Custer told Wilson there was a "King-sized hole" in the top right region of Kennedy's head, and that Kennedy's skull was like "somebody took a hardboiled egg and just rolled it around until it was thoroughly cracked...Part of the head would bulge out, another part would sink in. The only thing that held it together was the skin. And even that was loose."

It should come as no surprise, then, that Custer pretty much repeated this in his 1997 testimony before the ARRB. He recalled: "The head was so unstable, due to the fractures. The fractures were extremely numerous. It was like somebody took a hardboiled egg, and just rolled it in their hand. And that's exactly what the head was like...This part of the head would come out. This part of the head would be in...The only thing that held it together was the skin. And even that was loose." He then described "a gaping hole in the right parietal region" and specified that "none" of the "missing" bone was occipital bone. 

Don't believe me? When testifying before the ARRB, Custer added lines to an anatomy drawing of the rear view of the skull. The slanted lines represented the area of the skull that was unstable but extant beneath the scalp when he first viewed the body. Here it is:

 

CusterBOHmd207_0001a.gif


The occipital bone was intact beneath the skin. 

To wit, when asked by Jeremy Gunn if the wound on the back of the head stretched into the occipital bone (where Gunn's assistant Doug Horne and Horne's close associate David Mantik, among others, place the wound), Custer replied "The hole doesn't" and then clarified that the occipital region from the lambdoid suture to the occipital protuberance (basically the upper half of the occipital bone which Horne and Dr. Mantik claim was missing) "was all unstable material. I mean, completely." "Unstable" isn't "missing." 

And this wasn't just a short-lived thing--a quick retreat before, and during questioning, by the government. In 1998, Custer was interviewed by William Law for his book In The Eye of History. When asked about the supposed wound on the back of the head, Custer corrected: "Here's where a lot of researchers screw up. Not the back of the head. Here's the back of the head (Custer then pointed to the area of the head in contact with the head holder in the left lateral autopsy photo). The occipital region. The defect was in the frontal-temporal region. Now, when you have the body lying like that, everybody points to it and says, 'That’s the back of the head.' No! That’s not the back of the head." He then pointed to the top of the head on the left lateral autopsy photo: "That’s the top of the head!" Law then asked Custer how, if the wound was where researchers claim it was, the head could have rested on the head holder used in the autopsy. Custer then specified: "Because the back of the head wasn’t blown out. This was still intact." (As he said this, he pointed to the lower portion of the back of the head in the left lateral autopsy photo). He continued: "It may not have been perfectly intact, there were fractures in there of course with all the destruction. If the back of the head was gone, there would be nothing there to hold the head up...The (head holder) would have been all inside."

Now this, of course, was years after the publication of Groden's book. Even so, when one watches Groden's video, JFK: The Case For Conspiracy, one can see that Custer was never really a "back of the head" witness, as he does not point out a wound on the back of Kennedy's head, as suggested by the frame used in Groden's book, but drags his hand across the entire top of his head while claiming the wound he saw stretched "From the top of the head almost to the base of the skull..." He was thereby describing the wound's appearance after the scalp was reflected, and the brain was removed. (In support of this proposition, it should be noted that he'd also claimed there was no brain in the skull that he could remember.) 

Now I know this comes as a shock to many readers. Custer is a hero to those claiming the back of Kennedy's head was missing--even though he is actually one of the strongest witnesses supporting that it was not missing. Just think of it. When preparing to take the A-P x-ray, Custer lifted Kennedy's head up to place it on the cassette holding the x-ray film. IF the back of Kennedy's head was missing, Kennedy's brain would have rested directly on this cassette. Custer would undoubtedly have noticed such a thing, and almost certainly have remembered such a thing. And yet Custer not only never mentioned such a thing, he actively disputed that such a thing occurred.

 

Pat,

If Jerrol Custer was correct in his description of the skull wound in the "frontal temporal region", then is he implying that the front/top "flap" skull wound we see on the extant Z-film is, in fact, basically accurate?

I am not taking a position here, merely asking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you read LIfton's book, there is evidence that Custer changed his story.

For instance on page 620, Custer said the x rays revealed the back of Kennedy's head blown off.

BTW, this switching around is not at all an unusual occurrence.

When motorcycle cop Hargis first talked about the shooting, he said he felt like he got hit with something.

Later on, this changed to him driving through a mist.

How you can feel like you got hit with something while riding through a mist is, well, Posnerian. 

 

Micah, I think you are talking about Paul O'Connor with the empty skull.

Edited by James DiEugenio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

If you read LIfton's book, there is evidence that Custer changed his story.

For instance on page 620, Custer said the x rays revealed the back of Kennedy's head blown off.

BTW, this switching around is not at all an unusual occurrence.

When motorcycle cop Hargis first talked about the shooting, he said he felt like he got hit with something.

Later on, this changed to him driving through a mist.

How you can feel like you got hit with something while riding through a mist is, well, Posnerian. 

 

Micah, I think you are talking about Paul O'Connor with the empty skull.

"Later on this changed to him driving through a mist.".   Didn't Hargis first say he though initially he'd been shot?  I have to wonder if his story was revised after a talk with SSA  Elmer Moore or one of his cohorts.  Moore spent a week in Dallas in early December 63 convincing Dr. Perry the throat wound wasn't such as well as conversations with other witnesses.  Then he went on to become Earl Warren's body guard while he was on the Warren Omission.

Makes one wonder if  Vince Palamara's  book on the Secret Service went deep enough.  They did destroy a lot of files early on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Motorcycle cop James Chaney, near right rear limo fender;

"I looked back just in time to see the President shot in the face by the second bullet"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Motorcycle cop James Chaney, near right rear limo fender;

"I looked back just in time to see the President shot in the face by the second bullet"

Is this from the Warren Omission?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

 

Sorry I don't remember reading about him if maybe I have Tony, that happens with age.  But wondering if you or anyone else might know if he made a written report, a statement, an affidavit.  Did the Warren Commission report mention him?  Or was he omitted? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Sorry I don't remember reading about him if maybe I have Tony, that happens with age.  But wondering if you or anyone else might know if he made a written report, a statement, an affidavit.  Did the Warren Commission report mention him?  Or was he omitted? 

According to another motorcycle cop, (McLain) they were all rounded up by the secret service and interviewed. When the Secret Service told them what they saw didn't happen, McLain says in the interview below "got up and walked out". From that I gather there were certain things said that were rather awkward, possibly like what Chaney said in the above clip.

Short interview excerpt below;

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4528444/dpd-motocycle-officer-hb-mclain-07-16-2015

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

According to another motorcycle cop, (McLain) they were all rounded up by the secret service and interviewed. When the Secret Service told them what they saw didn't happen, McLain says in the interview below "got up and walked out". From that I gather there were certain things said that were rather awkward, possibly like what Chaney said in the above clip.

Short interview excerpt below;

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4528444/dpd-motocycle-officer-hb-mclain-07-16-2015

 

Guess They were omitted from the w o.  I know I'm going off topic in a thread I started a bit but it is related via Chaney, McLain, Hargis.  If they were all called together immediately afterwards, and told what they saw by the SS as opposed to what they did, it was a conspiracy.  (Sh.).  (Not a theory).  Implicating Secret Service involvement. 

Edited by Ron Bulman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've collected all the pertinent witness statements on my website, Ron, and sorted them by proximity of the witness to the limo. Chaney and Douglas Jackson were two of the main witnesses, but were never asked to write a report by the DPD, and never interviewed by the FBI till more than a decade later, when their omission from the WC's records had become public knowledge, and a bit of an embarrassment.

From patspeer.com, chapter 5b:

James Chaney rode to the right and rear of the President. Although he was the closest witness behind the President at the time of the shooting and had a private conversation with Jack Ruby the next day, Chaney was never questioned by the Warren Commission. (11-22-63 interview with KLIF radio, reportedly around 12:45 PM--but not broadcast at that time--as transcribed by Harold Weisberg from the KLIF album The Fateful Hours) "On the first shot we thought it was a motorcycle backfire. I looked to my left and so did President Kennedy, looking back over his left shoulder, and when the second shot struck him in the face then we knew someone was shooting at the President." (When asked what happened after the President was hit) "He slumped forward in the car. He fell forward in the seat there." (When asked Mrs. Kennedy's reaction) "I don't know. When I seen that he was hit I went on up to tell Chief Curry's group there that he had been hit there, and we took him on to the hospital from there."  (When then asked if he saw where the bullet had come from) "No, all I knew it came over my right shoulder."(Note: some sources have it that Chaney mentioned “a third shot that was fired that (he) did not see hit the President” and that he did see “Governor Connally’s shirt erupt in blood..” in one of his first interviews, but I can not find a primary source for these quotes.) (11-22-63 interview with Bill Lord on WFAA television, apparently in the early evening) “I was riding on the right rear fender... We had proceeded west on Elm Street at approximately 15-20 miles per hour. We heard the first shot. I thought it was a motorcycle backfiring and uh I looked back over to my left and also President Kennedy looked back over his left shoulder. Then, the, uh, second shot came, well, then I looked back just in time to see the President struck in the face by the second bullet. He slumped forward into Mrs. Kennedy’s lap, and uh, it was apparent to me that we were being fired upon. I went ahead of the President’s car to inform Chief Curry that the President had been hit. And then he instructed us over the air to take him to Parkland Hospital and he had Parkland Hospital stand by. I went on up ahead of the, to notify the officers that were leading the escort that he had been hit and we're gonna have to move out." (When asked if he saw the person who fired on the President) "No sir, it was back over my right shoulder.” (11-23-63 article in the Houston Post) "Dallas Police Motorcycle Officer J.M. Chaney told a Houston Post reporter that he was riding about six feet from the right rear fender of the President's car. He heard two shots that seemed to come over his right shoulder, he said. He said the President turned his face around over his left shoulder to look back after the first shot and was hit by the second shot in the left side of the head. Chaney said he did not know if the first shot hit anybody or not." (11-24-63 article in the Houston Chronicle, posted online by Chris Davidson) "A motorcycle policeman just six feet from President Kennedy when he was hit said the assassin's first shot missed entirely. The second of the three shots felled Kennedy, said patrolman James M. Chaney. He was six feet to the right and front of the President's car, moving about 15 miles an hour while rounding a curve. The shot, said Chaney, came from the sixth floor of a warehouse building about 50 feet or less behind the President's car. From the sixth floor to the President, the bullet traveled about 110 feet, Chaney estimated. Chaney was an infantryman in Europe during World War II, with experience in sharpshooting. 'When the first shot was fired, I thought it was a backfire,' Chaney said. Everyone looked around. The President was looking back over his left shoulder. A second or two after the first shot, the second shot hit him. 'It was like you hit him in the face with a tomato. Blood went all over the car. There was screaming and yelling. A secret service man yelled 'Let's get out of here!'' Chaney said the motorcade stopped momentarily after the shots rang out. A policeman ran between two cars with his pistol drawn, heading toward the building. 'I sped to the lead car carrying Chief (Jesse) Curry and Forrest Sorrels, chief of the secret service division of the Treasury Department in the Dallas area. I told them the President had been hit and it appeared bad,' Chaney said. 'A piece of his skull was lying on the floor of the car,' Chaney said." (Article in the 12-2-63 issue of Newsweek, presumed to be based on an 11-22-63  interview of Chaney, by motorcade witness Charles Roberts) (On the first shot) "'I thought it was a backfire,' said Dallas Patrolman James M. Chaney, who was riding a motorcycle 6 feet from the right rear fender of the President's car." The President jerked his head around...Then (came) the second shot and his head exploded in blood..." (12-8-63 AP article by Sid Moody) "His head erupted in blood" said Dallas patrolman James Chaney, who was 6 feet away from the president." (The Torch is Passed, a book by the Associated Press put out in December 63) "'His head exploded in blood,' motorcycle officer James Chaney later would say."

(3-25-64 testimony of Marrion Baker before the Warren Commission, 3H242-270) “I talked to Jim Chaney, and he made the statement that the two shots hit Kennedy first and then the other one hit the Governor.” (Taped interview of Chaney with researcher Gil Toft, presumably from 1971, as transcribed by Josiah Thompson and posted on the Education Forum, 1-4-12. On 4-3-14, a slightly different version of this transcript was presented by Larry Rivera and Jim Fetzer on the Veterans Today website. They credited this interview to "Whitney," someone working for researcher Fred Newcomb, however) (When asked if Kennedy's limousine came to a stop during the shooting) "I don’t know whether the lead car ever stopped or not. I know that... I mean Kennedy’s car. The one behind them apparently did because an officer could run from the left hand side in front of me. I know I stopped. Whatever happened there. I know Hargis, one of the officers riding escort on the other side, run across in front of me...Whether or not the lead car stopped... I don’t believe that it did. It slowed down though. What was this agent’s name? Clint Hill?" (Continuing his thought) "Slowed down enough that he did get on that car. Now whether he was on there or not on... Several different times during the procession there he would run up and jump on those little steps and ride there for a couple of seconds and jump off. It all depended on how fast it was going along and where we were at. So whether... I don’t believe that it actually stopped. It could have but I just don’t... The second car... cause I recall it was Officer Hargis jumped off his motor and run across in front of me... I don’t recall myself stopping but as I stopped--to think of it I must have come almost to a stop for Hargis to have got off his motor over on the left-hand side and run between those two cars and run in front of me. Apparently, I did too. I don’t recall stopping but I must have." (When asked if Kennedy's brain matter sprayed everywhere) "Well, it was all over with as soon as you see it. It did splatter everything."

(9-12-75 FBI report) “Chaney stated that as the President’s car passed the…(TSBD), he was four to six feet from the President’s right shoulder. He heard three evenly spaced noises coming seconds apart, which at first he thought to be motorcycle backfire. Upon hearing the second noise, he was sure it was not a motorcycle backfire. When he heard the third noise he saw the President’s head “explode” and realized the noises were gunshots. He said that the shots did not come from his immediate vicinity and is positive that all the shots came from behind him.” (9-17-75 FBI report, FBI file 62-109060, sec 181, p168-170) “after making a left turn off Houston Street and shortly after the car had passed the School Book Depository, Chaney heard a noise which sounded like one of the motorcycles close to the President’s car had backfired…Chaney said he glanced to his left at the two motorcycles on the opposite side of the President’s car…Within a few seconds after Chaney heard the first noise, he heard a noise again and turned to his right to try and determine what the noise was and where it was coming from…Chaney said he then looked straight ahead to avoid colliding with the curb and presidential car and then looked at the President just as he heard a third noise. Chaney said while he was looking at President Kennedy, he saw his head “explode.” Chaney said he was positive that all the noises he heard were coming from behind his motorcycle and none of these noises came from the side or the front of the position in which Chaney was located. Chaney said the noises were evenly spaced.”

 

Douglas Jackson rode on the far right of the President. (Notes written on the night of 11-22-63 as reprinted in The Kennedy Assassination Tapes, 1979): Officer C “we turned west onto Elm Street. Drove only a short way traveling very slowly. About that time I heard what I thought was a car back fire and I looked around and then to the President’s car in time for the next explosion and saw Mr. Connally jerk back to his right and it seemed that he look right at me. I could see a shocked expression on his face and I thought 'Someone is shooting at them.' I began stopping my motor and looking straight ahead first at the Railroad overpass and saw only one Policeman standing on the track directly over the street. I looked then back to my right and behind me then looked back toward Mr. Kennedy and saw him hit in the head; he appeared to have been hit just above the right ear. The top of his head flew off away from me. Mrs. Kennedy pulled him toward her. Mrs. Connally pulled Mr. Connally down and she slid down into the seat. I knew that the shooting was coming from my right rear and I looked back that way but I never did look up. Looking back to the front again I saw the Secret Service Agent lying down across the car over Mr. and Mrs. Kennedy, the presidential limousine was beginning to pick up speed and the Secret Service men were running past the presidential car drawing their guns as they ran. I said to Jim Chaney "Let's go with them" and we sped away, he pulled past the President's car and up toward Chief Curry's car.” (a 1971 interview of Jackson by "Whitney," someone working for researcher Fred Newcomb, as presented by Larry Rivera and Jim Fetzer on the Veterans Today website, 4-3-14) (When asked how he liked watching the Zapruder film) "I liked it. The only thing is I thought that caravan stopped and it didn’t." (As quoted by Fred Newcomb in Murder from Within, an unpublished manuscript from 1974) "Mr. Connally was looking toward me. And about that time then the second shot went off. That's the point when I knew that somebody was shooting at them because that was the time he [Connally] got hit - because he jerked. I was looking directly at him…he was looking…kind of back toward me and…he just kind of flinched." "…that car just all but stopped…just a moment." (9-17-75FBI report, FBI file 62-109060, sec 181, p171-173) “As the presidential vehicle was proceeding down Elm Street, and Jackson was turning the corner from Houston to Elm Street, he heard a loud report which he first thought to be a motorcycle backfire. He looked at the Presidential car to see what the reaction was and observed Texas Governor John Connally turn to his right in the car. At the same time he heard a second noise and saw Connally jerk to his right. At this point, Jackson had just rounded the corner from Houston to Elm Street and he recognized the second noise as a definite gunshot. At this point, he was 15 to 20 feet away from the Presidential vehicle and he stopped his motorcycle in the street and looked toward the railroad overpass, directly in front of the Presidential car. He observed a police officer with his hands on his hips, looking toward the Presidential car. As this appeared normal, he then looked to his right and rear in the direction of the Texas School Book Depository and the intersection of Houston and Elm Street and observed many bystanders falling to the ground. He looked toward the Presidential vehicle and at the same time heard a third shot fired. He observed President Kennedy struck in the head above his right ear and the impact of the bullet exploded the top portion of his head, toward the left side of the Presidential vehicle. Jackson immediately knew that Kennedy had been hit and that the shot had been fired from his right rear. He turned and looked back at the intersection of Houston and Elm Street, however, did not look up at the windows in any of the buildings. When he looked back toward the Presidential car, a Secret Service agent was climbing onto the trunk of the vehicle and the car was picking up speed. Jackson then told Officer Chaney that they should go with the vehicle and Chaney proceeded forward to Chief Curry's car and then cleared the way toward Parkland Hospital...Jackson advised he had recognized three distinct noises at the time President Kennedy was shot and could identify two as definitely being gunfire. He further stated he is positive the shot that struck President Kennedy in the head was fired from the right rear, the vicinity of the Texas School Book Building."

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chaney said "I looked back just in time to see the President struck I the face by the second shot".  Incredible.  Suppressed instantly by the Secret Service.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...