Temple Logic?

[David Andrews]

On 10/6/2019 at 7:09 PM, Ray Mitcham said:

In addition,

 

"Father Huber

Father Oscar L Huber was one of the priests that gave the last rites to the already dead JFK . Part of the ceremony included tracing a cross on the President's forehead using holy oil. Obviously, Father Huber would have been in an excellent position to look at JFK's head wounds. Father Huber was quoted in the press the weekend that the President died saying that he had seen a terrible wound over the President's left eye . 

"

I wouldn't trust the press not to conflate Huber's statements about two different wounds into one wound, especially if the reporter was rushed and emotional, or Huber was emotional and indistinct.

On the other hand, a small temple wound may have seemed "terrible" to the good father, seeing it on a young and famous man recently murdered.  The fact that a priest giving last rites said anything to a reporter about a president's body suggests Huber was upset.

Either way implies that the temple wound wasn't "terrible" by objective medical standards.

Edited October 16, 2019 by David Andrews

[Ron Bulman]

How far was JFK's head turned to the right at the time of the head shot from the grassy knoll is the basic question of this thread after all.  Were Huber, and McClelland mistaken about the left temple?  Or were Jenkins and the mortician right.  Jenkins was pretty emphatic about Burkley calling off Humes of their examination of it on the right side.  I don't see JFK turned far enough to the right in Zapruder at the point of impact to cause back and to the left from that angle.  The fragment trail from the x-ray's, if we can believe them lends credence to the right temple.  Doesn't it?

Edited October 19, 2019 by Ron Bulman

[Micah Mileto]

30 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

How far was JFK's head turned to the right at the time of the head shot from the grassy knoll is the basic question of this thread after all.  Were Huber, and McClelland mistaken about the left temple?  Or were Jenkins and the mortician right.  Jenkins was pretty emphatic about Burkley calling off Humes of their examination of it on the right side.  I don't see JFK turned far enough to the right in Zapruder at the point of impact to cause back and to the left from that angle.  The fragment trail from the x-ray's, if we can believe them lends credence to the right temple.  Doesn't it?

The HSCA determined that the photographic evidence showed Kennedy's head turned towards his left. So a high-powered shot entering above his right ear probably would've resulted in an exit to the left side of the head.

[Ron Bulman]

43 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said:

The HSCA determined that the photographic evidence showed Kennedy's head turned towards his left. So a high-powered shot entering above his right ear probably would've resulted in an exit to the left side of the head.

Yet the exit wound was in the right rear...

[Rob Couteau]

It all depends on the trajectory of the bullet - what angle it was travelling in when it struck. Also, if I recall correctly, Kennedy's head was both turned to the side and hanging downward.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Rob Couteau

[David Josephs]

10 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

How far was JFK's head turned to the right at the time of the head shot from the grassy knoll is the basic question of this thread after all.  Were Huber, and McClelland mistaken about the left temple?  Or were Jenkins and the mortician right.  Jenkins was pretty emphatic about Burkley calling off Humes of their examination of it on the right side.  I don't see JFK turned far enough to the right in Zapruder at the point of impact to cause back and to the left from that angle.  The fragment trail from the x-ray's, if we can believe them lends credence to the right temple.  Doesn't it?

This may help...  the oVal representing his head is facing correctly at z313...   all depends on which shots you’re referring to... see the original West Plat below...

And remember what Altgens said... final shot was only 15 feet from him.. that would be the 2nd yellow curb, not the one by Moorman and Hill

[Paul Bacon]

3 hours ago, David Josephs said:

This may help...  the oVal representing his head is facing correctly at z313...   all depends on which shots you’re referring to... see the original West Plat below...

And remember what Altgens said... final shot was only 15 feet from him.. that would be the 2nd yellow curb, not the one by Moorman and Hill

So, David, you'd be pretty sure that the head shot we see in the Zapruder film came from the direction of the South Knoll, correct?  It certainly looks like that to me.

Just to add another thought to what you're saying to Ron, in the instant before the explosive head shot, JFK's face was pushed down and forward by an almost simultaneous shot from the rear.  This would have made the entrance of the head shot bullet higher on the forehead than it otherwise would have been, but still consistent with a shot from the South Knoll.

[Ron Bulman]

One in the hairline above the right eye. Likely by something like a 22 hollow point based on the trail of particles from the point of entrance and their dispersion from it in the x-ray's.  Per Dr. Chesser.  

One in the right temple, in the hairline, above and maybe to the right/front of the ear.  Per him Dr. Mantik and Doug Horne of the ARRB and others ?

Both at the same time?  Both from the GK? 

Edited March 30, 2020 by Ron Bulman

[Ron Bulman]

22 hollow point in the hairline per a more than neurologist.  Previous disintegrating 22 hollow point to the throat?  A mutilation of the wound and tracheotomy to remove the largest pieces of metal left?  Yet no x-ray of the throat area in existence?  Another trail of particles, destroyed?  I know, pure speculation on the last part.  But wouldn't it have been logical to take an x-ray of the throat based on the obvious butchery to it in an autopsy photo?   

[Joseph McBride]

See the Belmont memo of the night of Nov. 22 about a bullet

lodged behind the president's right ear. That memo alone

destroys the Warren Report, and it is supported by various

eyewitnesses, including Secret Service agents. I write about

it in my book INTO THE NIGHTMARE.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Joseph McBride

[John Butler]

This memo would necessarily have been written after or during the autopsy from what is being discussed in this memo written on the 22nd.  If this memo is true and not something written at a later date it would have to be composed some time between the autopsy and midnight of the 22nd.

PS

I hadn't noticed it at the time, but the memo is dated in time to 9:18 PM when Belmont talked to SAC Shanklin in Dallas.  He must have been getting information almost as it happened. Belmont was an Asst. Director of the FBI.  Some think he ran the entire Kennedy Assassination investigation and cover up.  I don't see this with J Edgar there in charge.  Hoover would have known and approved all of it. 

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by John Butler

[John Butler]

On ‎4‎/‎1‎/‎2020 at 10:29 AM, John Butler said:

This memo would necessarily have been written after or during the autopsy from what is being discussed in this memo written on the 22nd.  If this memo is true and not something written at a later date it would have to be composed some time between the autopsy and midnight of the 22nd.

PS

I hadn't noticed it at the time, but the memo is dated in time to 9:18 PM when Belmont talked to SAC Shanklin in Dallas.  He must have been getting information almost as it happened. Belmont was an Asst. Director of the FBI.  Some think he ran the entire Kennedy Assassination investigation and cover up.  I don't see this with J Edgar there in charge.  Hoover would have known and approved all of it. 

 

The Siebert and O'Neill report states that the autopsy doctors began to cut into Kennedy at about 8:15.  This probably means that either Siebert or O'Neill reported to their boss back at FBI headquarters before he made his call to SAC Dallas at 9:18 PM.  Which means that the Siebert and O'Neill report is a fraud.  They reported the autopsy doctors could not find any bullets.

The bullet that the Secret Service had is more than likely the stretcher bullet.  The one behind the ear? 

[Micah Mileto]

A small contention with Pat Speer's treatment of the temple wound problem:

 

Speer points out on his website that Diana Bowron told Harrison Livingstone in 1993 "When we prepared the body, I washed as much blood as I could from the hair; while doing this, I did not see any other wound either in the temples or in other parts of the head". But, as Audrey Bell said at the 4/6/1991 conference in Dallas, "It would've been cleaned up partially. However, you didn't do too much cleaning up because medical examiner- you couldn't wash away evidence. So, medical examiner never liked to have a body totally cleaned up before they got it. You sent everything intact with all IV tubes, chest tubes, any drains, anything that's been attached, go intact".

[Ron Bulman]

8 hours ago, Micah Mileto said:

A small contention with Pat Speer's treatment of the temple wound problem:

 

Speer points out on his website that Diana Bowron told Harrison Livingstone in 1993 "When we prepared the body, I washed as much blood as I could from the hair; while doing this, I did not see any other wound either in the temples or in other parts of the head". But, as Audrey Bell said at the 4/6/1991 conference in Dallas, "It would've been cleaned up partially. However, you didn't do too much cleaning up because medical examiner- you couldn't wash away evidence. So, medical examiner never liked to have a body totally cleaned up before they got it. You sent everything intact with all IV tubes, chest tubes, any drains, anything that's been attached, go intact".

So the tracheotomy / tracheostomy tube would have been left in place for the Dallas Coroner.  Who took it out when he was placed in the Bronze Casket which was then absconded by the Secret Service?  Or was it still in place when received at Bethesda and just never mentioned? ha ha   

[Micah Mileto]

16 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

So the tracheotomy / tracheostomy tube would have been left in place for the Dallas Coroner.  Who took it out when he was placed in the Bronze Casket which was then absconded by the Secret Service?  Or was it still in place when received at Bethesda and just never mentioned? ha ha   

By all accounts from Parkland, the tubes were not left in Kennedy's body before placing it in the casket. A couple of nurses described pulling the tubes out after Kennedy was declared lost.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Micah Mileto