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Jim Hargrove

Was Bill Shelley Oswald's CIA minder in the TSBD? Was he also at the New Orleans Trade Mart?

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Posted (edited)

The Texas School Book Depository distributed school books to five states surrounding Texas, including Louisiana. One of the TSBD employees, Bill Shelley, may have traveled to Louisiana in August, 1963 and been in contact with HARVEY Oswald in New Orleans. When Oswald was passing out FPCC literature, in front of Clay Shaw's International Trade Mart, a man who looks very much like Shelley was standing close to Oswald. There is no proof this man was Bill Shelley, but the physical resemblance is unmistakable. 


2_shelleys.jpg

Above: Bill Shelley (??) in New Orleans with HARVEY Oswald.  Below: Bill Shelley on 11/22/63

3_shelleys.jpg

Elzie Glaze was a Dallas journalist who in 1974 met a woman who had been working for the Texas Book Depository since 1969. Her immediate supervisor was Bill Shelley, who Glaze contacted and met on numerous occasions. In a 1989 letter Glaze wrote, "Mr. Shelley claims to have been an intelligence officer during World War II and thereafter joined the CIA."

NOTE: From all indications Oswald was alone, in the 2nd floor lunchroom, during the shooting. However, Oswald could not prove that he was in the lunchroom, and therefore needed someone to say that he and Oswald were together during the shooting (not on the 6th floor of the TSBD). While being questioned by DPD Capt. Fritz, Oswald said that he was "out with Bill Shelley in front" during the shooting (recorded on handwritten notes by Capt. Fritz and FBI agent Jim Hosty). Oswald expected his supervisor and CIA contact (Shelley) to confirm that he and Oswald were together during the shooting.  But Oswald did not realize that Shelley knew that he (HARVEY Oswald) would be arrested and charged with killing the President of the United States. Not only did Shelley deny being with Oswald, it was very likely Shelley who directed Oswald to leave the TSBD, board the Marsalis bus (#433), and meet a contact at the Texas Theater. If not Shelley, then who ??

--I just added the above material by John Armstrong to the Escape from the 6th Floor page of HarveyandLee.net.

Edited by Jim Hargrove

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Back in 2006, attorney William Weston wrote a lengthy piece for The Fourth Decade, which was also published here on the Ed Forum.  In the article, Mr. Weston wrote that journalist Elzie Glaze wrote in a 1989 letter:

"Mr. Shelley claims to have been an intelligence officer during World War II and thereafter joined the CIA."

The full post is here:

 

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From the William Weston article linked above comes this extraordinary paragraph (emphasis added):

Shelley told Glaze that he had been the supervisor of Lee Harvey Oswald. After the assassination, the Dallas police placed Shelley under arrest and formally charged him with the murder of the President. (No mention was made by Glaze as to why Shelley had been arrested, nor did he say what connection this arrest had with the arrest of Oswald.) The charges against Shelley were soon dropped, and he was released. Since that day, at various times, journalists representing several newspapers and magazines approached him with offers of huge sums of money for his personal account of the assassination. These offers were all turned down. When Glaze tried to get permission to quote him in his own article, Shelley refused and insisted that even his name was not to be printed.

Anyone know more about this allegation?
 

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Posted (edited)

The resemblance between the man next to Oswald in New Orleans and Shelley in Dallas is uncanny.

This would be a rich facial study project to present to experts in the field of facial recognition technology.

Exact same hair outline shape, body height and combing style ( Everly Brothers, Elvis, Fabian exaggerated pompadours) and even color.

 

image.jpeg.1d6af5f85183f83c8c3f88d59f913bf1.jpeg

Same Dixie Peach Pomade shininess?

Same facial features such as forehead shape and size, deeper set eyes, brow bone protrusion, nose bridge and nose shape and size, thin indented cheeks, thin face and chin, same ear location and shape and distance from skull.

Both men look the same in thin body shape, structure and height. 

Is Shelley in Dallas also wearing a suit and tie like the New Orleans man?

Seems every picture we see of Shelley he is in a suit and tie.

Both men seem the same age and with the same skin tone.

Seriously, I don't know why someone at some point hasn't presented these photos to a facial and body recognition expert to see if they match.

Edited by Joe Bauer

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There is actually a thread on this Forum discussing the similarity between Bill Shelley and the man standing in the leafletting group in New Orleans, 1963: 

real evidence (for a change) – what is it with these pictures of Oswald leafletting? by Martin Bank, November 7, 2015.

 

Larry Hancock in that thread suggested that the man resembling Shelley was actually one Thomas Beckham.

Beckham+tri-collage.jpg

 

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Posted (edited)

Thomas Beckham?  

IMO ... no.

Beckham's hair is too dark.

Beckham's cheeks aren't as sunken in and the cheek bone in the N.O. picture is more pronounced.

The orbital brow bones are more protruding with the N.O. man.

Notice the space between the eye brows are different with Beckham versus the N.O. man. More space in the N.O. picture and a different furling.

The N.O. man's nose flattens out on the bridge and the tip. Beckham's nose is longer than than N.O. man's and has a noticeably more defined, narrow, sharper and straighter bridge with a defined, thinner and outward pointing tip. This difference is obvious.

Beckham's ears seem farther back ( although slightly ) than the Oswald companion man.

The hair line in the right temple area is wrong.

Beckham's hair line in that area is farther back.

In this photo Beckham is wearing casual clothing.

I just don't see this guy in a suit and tie.

Beckham seems younger than the N.O. man.

Edited by Joe Bauer

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7 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

There is actually a thread on this Forum discussing the similarity between Bill Shelley and the man standing in the leafletting group in New Orleans, 1963: 

real evidence (for a change) – what is it with these pictures of Oswald leafletting? by Martin Bank, November 7, 2015.

 

Larry Hancock in that thread suggested that the man resembling Shelley was actually one Thomas Beckham.

Beckham+tri-collage.jpg

 

Andrej, can you post the Forum link for Joe and I?  Larry's work  is always informative.  The picture on the left seems to be of a much younger person.

I've wondered about Shelly as a contact for O at the TSBD before from what I've read.

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Posted (edited)

Bill Shelley was about 38 years old the day JFK was murdered.  This Thomas Beckham fellow, at least in the photo above, does not appear to be NEARLY that old.  Just my opinion, but the fellow in front of the NOLA Trade Mart appears closer to Shelley's age than Beckham's.

Edited by Jim Hargrove

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Posted (edited)

Check the ears, as the police ID experts say.  Are they Shelley's ears, or Beckham's, in N. O.?  I can't tell, but a lot about the photo suggests Shelley.

Beckham was connected to David Ferrie through the renegade Old Catholic Church bishops.  He was often of low income then, and properly should be hawking leaflets in a white shirt for a buck.  He once claimed to a researcher that it was him in the Trade Mart photo.  See the back threads on him.

Edited by David Andrews

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Posted (edited)

 

Thomas Beckham?  

IMO ... no.

His hair is too dark.

His cheeks aren't as sunken and the cheek bone in the N.O. picture is more pronounced.

The orbital brow bones are more protruding with the N.O. man.

Notice the space between the eye brows are different with Beckham versus the N.O. man. More space in the N.O. picture and a different furling.

The N.O. man's nose flattens out on the bridge and the tip. Beckham's nose has a noticeably more defined, narrow, sharper and straighter bridge with a defined and thinner and outward pointing tip. This difference is obvious.

David, imo the nose of the fellow in the New Orleans picture versus Beckham is the easiest give-away feature to spot in eliminating Beckham as this fellow. Notice how much flatter the New Orleans fellow's nose is? And how much shorter in length it is versus Beckham's?

These differences are so obvious. 

And how old was Beckham in August of 1963?  The New Orleans Oswald co-leafleteer is not as young looking as the picture we see here of Beckham.

 

Edited by Joe Bauer

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Posted (edited)

A couple of other observations.

Admittedly not born out of any scientific background knowledge.

But, I have been looking at each man's shirt collars in the New Orleans picture.

How they sit and fit around their necks. 

Although the differences are slight they are still noticeable.

Look at each man's collar and you will see them.

Oswald's shirt collar sits more level from back to front around his thicker neck than the possible Shelley's thinner neck.

The Shelley man's collar sits higher up in back and curves noticeably downward toward the front.

The photo of Shelley in Dallas shows the same higher up in back and dropping lower in front white shirt collar setting and fit, again around a quite thin neck.

And curiously, the possible Shelley person in the New Orleans leaflet passing pick is the only one not dressed in just a shirt on that obviously hot and muggy August N.O. day.

Does that mean this person was not part of the leaflet passing team and just a passerby who came in close to read the leaflet himself? 

And if the Shelley look-a-like person in the New Orleans picture is not part of Oswald's team, would Thomas Beckham appear on the scene as simply a curious suit and tie wearing passerby?

Strange days, characters and doings in New Orleans in August of 1963.

Strange too that Guy Bannister's business address ( same building - different entrance ) happened to be on Oswald's first pamphlets and Clay Shaw's Trade Mart address just happened to be Oswald's second choice of leaflet passing location.

 

 

Edited by Joe Bauer

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Posted (edited)

post-6343-0-38626400-1446884132_thumb.jpg

I am glad I am not the only one out in La La Land suggesting there is something up with Danny Arce.  He is difficult to place in Dealey Plaza exactly by his testimonies.  Altgens 6 shows him talking on a hand held radio in front to the Dal-Tex.  He was a communications co-conspirator.  This Martin Blank has posted some great info.

BTW, as far as patsies go don't leave out Chauncey Holt.

Edited by John Butler

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22 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

A couple of other observations.

Admittedly not born out of any scientific background knowledge.

But, I have been looking at each man's shirt collars in the New Orleans picture.

How they sit and fit around their necks. 

Although the differences are slight they are still noticeable.

Look at each man's collar and you will see them.

Oswald's shirt collar sits more level from back to front around his thicker neck than the possible Shelley's thinner neck.

The Shelley man's collar sits higher up in back and curves noticeably downward toward the front.

The photo of Shelley in Dallas shows the same higher up in back and dropping lower in front white shirt collar setting and fit, again around a quite thin neck.

And curiously, the possible Shelley person in the New Orleans leaflet passing pick is the only one not dressed in just a shirt on that obviously hot and muggy August N.O. day.

Does that mean this person was not part of the leaflet passing team and just a passerby who came in close to read the pamphlet himself? 

And if the Shelley look-a-like person in the New Orleans picture is not part of Oswald's team, would Thomas Beckham appear on the scene as simply a curious suit and tie wearing passerby?

Strange days, characters and doings in New Orleans in August of 1963.

Strange too that Guy Bannister's business address ( same building - different entrance ) happened to be on Oswald's first pamphlets and Clay Shaw's Trade Mart address just happened to be Oswald's second choice of leaflet passing location.

Interesting points, Joe.  Thanks.

There may be no way to identify with certainty the fellow in the business suit by the Trade Mart, but Elsie Glaze’s allegation that Shelley admitted he was with the CIA, if true,  goes a long way toward suggesting it could have been him in New Orleans that day.  Virtually everyone around “Oswald” at the ITM had some sort of American Intel connection.  

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Posted (edited)

The various frames and photos taken in front of the trade mart shows without doubt that Bill Shelley was there.  You folks that claim otherwise are welcome to your opinions.  Question:  Was Bill Shelley made the handler for both Lee and Harvey?  Did this occur with the TSBD in mind since all the book companies were moving over there that summer?  And, Dealey Plaza is Murder Plaza, the absolutely best place to carry out a sniper assassination.  There are so many places to shoot from.

Both worked the same projects in Russia, New Orleans, and Dallas and it would be natural for each to cover the other while the other was doing something else.  That was the purpose of the double spy. 

More Mission Impossible stuff.  IMO, this is Lee Oswald (no earlobes) in this photo covered with a face mask of Harvey.  It is my belief that the intensification of the framing of Harvey Oswald began in the summer of 1963 in New Orleans.  It is difficult for people to tell Lee from Harvey because almost all of the Lee photos have been converted into Harvey.  And, that is a position that will drive LN's secret and open into rage.

o-trade-mart-1.jpg

Edited by John Butler

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