DR Costella's leaning lamppost

[Robin Unger]

On 6/7/2019 at 7:09 AM, Chris Davidson said:

 

Edited:

 

Edited June 8, 2019 by Robin Unger

[John Butler]

Chris Davidson said,

“John Butler, there are many ways to "skin a cat",  we choose different methods.”

“Willis had to run 192.5ft to his location on Elm St and the limo had to travel 229.8ft from Willis' last photo.”

“The time equals 17.84 seconds discounting any delay(missing frames) created by the Towner and Z133 splice.

192.5ft/17.84 sec = 7.34mph

229.8/17.84sec = 8.76 mph”

The difference between 18 seconds (a later calculation) and 17.84 to cover the distance from where the limo was at in Z frame 132 and where it is shown in Z frame 133 is insignificant.

In comparison from an internet calculator we find different math for the results of feet per second equals mph from the above calculation:

Something’s wrong with the math.  We will use Davidson’s math calculations:

192.5 / 10.73 feet per second = 18.21 seconds for Phil

***

The distance of 229.8 for the limo’s run to the end of the Z Gap 133 frame should be shorter in comparison to Phil’s run.

Looking at these frames, which are about the same, the presidential limousine has passed the NW corner of the Court House.  That will take off about 100 feet from the run of the limo.  This is the distance of the Court House on the Houston side.

129.8 / 12.85 feet per second = 10.10 seconds for the presidential limousine.

Even if you use the figure 229.8 feet for the distance the results are 229.8 / 12.85 = 17.8 seconds.  Which is about the same as Phil’s run.  They would be arriving at the same time. 

Once again, a comparison:

 

192.5 / 10.73 feet per second = 18.21 seconds for Phil

229.8 -100 =129.8 / 12.85 feet per second = 10.10 seconds for the presidential limousine.

 

These calculations show that there is reasonable doubt that Phil Willis didn’t make it to the SW corner of Elm and Houston as shown in the Zapruder film and the Towner film.

There is a possibility that Linda took her father’s photos since she made it in time.

 

 

Edited June 8, 2019 by John Butler

[Chris Davidson]

My conversion for 1mph is and always has been 1.47ft per sec.

We're done Butler.

Take a surveying class.

Once you're done with that, come back and explain this distance for everyone.

It should be quite an event.

You were given the pieces to "skin the cat" and you gave it an awful haircut instead.

 

 

[Ron Bulman]

4 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

My conversion for 1mph is and always has been 1.47ft per sec.

We're done Butler.

Take a surveying class.

Once you're done with that, come back and explain this distance for everyone.

It should be quite an event.

You were given the pieces to "skin the cat" and you gave it an awful haircut instead.

 

 

Funny Chris. I buy cats for an anatomy lab.  The professor prefers them skinned.  Less messy during dissection.  Hard to get anymore even though many places are over run by them.  In some cases the SPCA is wrong, population control is necessary.  I think the students should learn to skin a cat, especially if they have never done so with say a deer.  Better on a dead cat than learning on me by a doctor or nurse in an emergency.  

[Chris Davidson]

On 6/6/2019 at 9:51 PM, Chris Bristow said:

I was very suspicious of the extreme keystone effect in the Barnes image and the fact that the lamppost is near the edge of the image while the Costella panorama took the lamppost image from frame 270 in which the lamppost is centered in the frame. Now I think I can put my keystone concerns aside because those effects would cause the lamppost to lean more to the left not to the right as in the Z film. That lends support to the Costella theory and so I think I can say that keystoning( both vertical and horizontal) is not the cause of the lamppost anomaly.
 
  What I did find is that the difference in the leaning lampposts between the Barnes and Costella image is only about 3/4 of one degree. The red line on the lamppost in the Costella panorama was slightly off and added to its rightward lean. With a small difference of 3/4 of one degree it becomes harder to rule out some of the subtle camera distortions like pincushion.
 

So in the end much of what I found supports The lamppost theory but because the error is only 3/4 of a degree I can't be sure of anything. It looks to me like  the Barnes image has not been pincushion corrected and that would cause the lamppost to lean slightly farther left. That may be the cause of the anomaly.  But because the effect is so small you would need to reproduce the photos with the same camera.
 

Chris,

I support Dr.Costella's theory too.

[John Butler]

Davidson says,

"My conversion for 1mph is and always has been 1.47ft per sec."

If so why are your numbers different from the numbers of the internet calculator?

[John Butler]

Yo, Cat Skinners. 

Zapruder Vs. Dorman on the SW Corner of Elm and Houston

We only have two views of the South West corner of Elm Street and Houston Street.  These views are the Zapruder film and the Elsie Dorman film. 

Was Elsie Dorman the only person in the TSBD was filming?  No one at the Houston / Elm intersection, or in front of the TSBD, or in Mannequin Row was taking pictures?  No one was taking photos on Houston after the turn on east Houston? 

Once the presidential limousine arrives in Dealey Plaza only Jay Skaggs and Abraham Zapruder are allowed to film the presidential limousine from the passenger side of the vehicle.  Everyone else has to be satisfied with the driver’s side to photograph or film.

By viewing these two films we should be able to establish how many people were on the SW corner of Elm and Houston.  The two films, Zapruder and Dorman should match.  They don’t. 

By viewing these films frame by frame, we come up with a different number of people there at the SW corner of Elm and Houston at the same time in the two films.  How is this possible? 

The discrepancy between counting people there in the two films is too large and needs explanation.  The counting of people on the SW corner will be approximate numbers since in the view of Zapruder some people are not seen well or not at all.  The Dorman Mosaic does not show all of the people on the SW corner.

 The Elsie Dorman film has approximately twice as many people on the corner as the Zapruder film does before and after the Zapruder Gap.  The number is large enough to render the notion of counting of whether the count is approximate or exact non-significant. 

This is a large discrepancy in the number of people there on the SW corner when the Dorman and Zapruder films are considered!  And, it needs of an explanation.

In the Zapruder film we have two counts of people on the SW corner.  One before the Zapruder Gap ending at Z 132 and then one after the Zapruder Gap beginning at Z 133.  The best estimate that judges the time between Z 132 and Z 133 is 18 seconds.  In Z 132 the presidential limousine has just turned onto Houston Street and was about 229 feet from the position found in Z 133.  In Z 133 the presidential limousine is almost across from the SW corner of the TSBD.

The way people are counted in the Zapruder film and the Dorman film is two people are used to count westward to the end of the pavement on the SW corner of Elm and Houston.  These people are Howard Brennan and a character I call the Railroad Man who has on what appears to be a railroad cap and bib overalls.

In Z 101 we have a count of 13 people.  Z 101 was used to count people simply because it was a clearer frame close to Z 132.  It is a little difficult to count people here.    

After the Zapruder Gap which begins at Z 133 we have this count in Z 136, which is a clearer frame than 133.  We have about 16 people here ending with Robert Croft. 

The Elsie Dorman film shows a radically different scene than what is shown in the Zapruder film.  10+ people shown in Dorman are not shown in Zapruder.

In this Dorman Mosaic we see 24 people west of our starting point of Brennan / Railroad Man.  As indicated earlier this mosaic does not show everyone.  A page from a book entitled, The Complete Unraveling of the JFK assassination, shows an extra 5 women not shown in the mosaic.

This is one of the reasons I think John Costella is right when he mentioned he thought the Zapruder film might be built from the ground up.

[John Butler]

Davidson's man in the bushes in Dorman:

I only see a shadowed area between branches and not a human figure.  A human figure should look like this in the Dorman film and not a black cut out which is actually a shadowed area between branches:

[Chris Bristow]

15 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Chris,

I support Dr.Costella's theory too.

I still have a nagging doubt about the lamppost theory, like there is something I am missing, something I still need to learn. But what I can check supports it. I assume the Barnes photo is not pincushion corrected but I doubt it could account for the difference we can see and for the vertical and horizontal keystone effect that should be hiding some of the rightward lean that  Dr Costella's comparison reveals. Maybe some of Barne's other Dealey photos will give a clue as to how much distortion his camera had.
  What is this GIF you posted? The cars make it look like the photos are taken less than a second apart yet the Stemmons perspective changes. What is up with that?

Edited June 9, 2019 by Chris Bristow

[Ray Mitcham]

18 hours ago, John Butler said:

:

 

Incorrect link.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Ray Mitcham

[Ray Mitcham]

ncorrectI link supplied

I

Edited June 10, 2019 by Ray Mitcham

[Ray Mitcham]

20 hours ago, John Butler said:

Davidson's man in the bushes in Dorman:

I only see a shadowed area between branches and not a human figure.  A human figure should look like this in the Dorman film and not a black cut out which is actually a shadowed area between branches:

Have a look at the gif, Chris posted here,

on the 31st May and you will see your "shadowed area" moving below  the tree foliage.

 

 

Edited June 10, 2019 by Ray Mitcham

[John Butler]

Mitcham,

Glad to see you are using a data argument rather than insults.

I used two frames from Davidson's gif.  These clearly show shadowed areas between branches as an anthropomorphic figure.  This is what happens when you put together a .gif with frames set at .08 Which is probably to high at 48 frames per sec.  Elsie's camera didn't record at that speed.  She recorded at 16 fps.  This gives the illusion of movement particularly when the wind was blowing strongly that day in Dealey Plaza.  Many witnesses commented on the strong wind that day.  There was rain in the morning.  The airport was covered with water in places as the motorcade left.  There was a strong wind in Dealey Plaza noted by many.

Edited June 10, 2019 by John Butler

[Ray Mitcham]

3 hours ago, John Butler said:

Mitcham,

Glad to see you are using a data argument rather than insults.

I used two frames from Davidson's gif.  These clearly show shadowed areas between branches as an anthropomorphic figure.  This is what happens when you put together a .gif with frames set at .08 Which is probably to high at 48 frames per sec.  Elsie's camera didn't record at that speed.  She recorded at 16 fps.  This gives the illusion of movement particularly when the wind was blowing strongly that day in Dealey Plaza.  Many witnesses commented on the strong wind that day.  There was rain in the morning.  The airport was covered with water in places as the motorcade left.  There was a strong wind in Dealey Plaza noted by many.

Butler, so it isn't a person, in your opinion? And a movie camera @ 16f.p.s gives an "illusion of movement" N.S.Sherlock.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Ray Mitcham

[John Butler]

Well Mitcham,

After the advice of Michael Clark this post is edited to:

Mitcham,

Your last few posts are somewhat incoherent.  Could you explain further.

Edited June 11, 2019 by John Butler