Jarman, Norman and Williams

[Karl Kinaski]

should have been in these windows immediately before the shots rang out according to the Warren Commission. Where are they?  I can't see anybody. 

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by Karl Kinaski

[Guest]

[Stephanie Goldberg]

For those of us who aren't JFK photography experts, is there a breakdown of what these two photos mean?  When were they taken?  Which floor is which?  Where were Jarman et al supposed to be at the moment these photos were taken?

[Ron Bulman]

The top floor seen in these pic's is the fifth.  In Bart's picture, in the far right window, with two men in it, that's supposed to be Jarman, Norman and Williams.  Standing right underneath where Oswald was said to have been when he supposedly shot JFK.  Been a while since I've read the details but if memory serves they all three testified to the Warren Omission that they All  watched the assassination from that window together.  That they heard the shots from the floor above And the Shells Falling on the Floor.  And, that they had dust loosened from the floorboards above by the explosions falling onto their hair and shoulders...  (I've got some ocean front property in Arizona for sale).  They were poor Black Men in Dallas in 1963.  They said what the KKK infested Dallas POlice told them to, among others.

The fourth floor reference to Adams in particular regards Vicki Adams, The Girl On the Stairs (Barry Ernst) and in turn who she saw or didn't when she got to the first floor. 

[Stephanie Goldberg]

Thank you, Ron! 

[Guest]

My pic is a detail from the Weaver pic. 

This is from Robin Unger's site and there is a detail shot as well, from the FBI, which I enhanced.

 

Some people say the Dillard photo below is a fake, and I am inclined to agree with them, the people inside the pic are inserted, which in a setting like this (black backgrounds) can be done in a dark room quite easy.

Edited June 29, 2019 by Bart Kamp

[Stephanie Goldberg]

Thank you, Bart!  

[Pat Speer]

6 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

The top floor seen in these pic's is the fifth.  In Bart's picture, in the far right window, with two men in it, that's supposed to be Jarman, Norman and Williams.  Standing right underneath where Oswald was said to have been when he supposedly shot JFK.  Been a while since I've read the details but if memory serves they all three testified to the Warren Omission that they All  watched the assassination from that window together.  That they heard the shots from the floor above And the Shells Falling on the Floor.  And, that they had dust loosened from the floorboards above by the explosions falling onto their hair and shoulders...  (I've got some ocean front property in Arizona for sale).  They were poor Black Men in Dallas in 1963.  They said what the KKK infested Dallas POlice told them to, among others.

The fourth floor reference to Adams in particular regards Vicki Adams, The Girl On the Stairs (Barry Ernst) and in turn who she saw or didn't when she got to the first floor. 

Williams was the only one of the three to make a statement on the 22nd, and he said he heard but two shots from the open window less than ten feet above his head, which was sticking out an open window. This is one of the most significant facts of the case, IMO. Williams heard but two shots, and only changed it to three months later. Also curious is that Norman made no statements until the 26th, and that this was the first any of them claimed he'd heard the bolt of the rifle and the shells hitting the floor above him.  Why wasn't he interviewed on the 22nd? Or 23rd, 24th, or 25th? I've never read a satisfactory explanation for this. 

[Karl Kinaski]

@ Bart Kamp Two bodys??? Maybe ... but since there is no motorcade in your pic, its impossible to fix the moment it was made ... the same problem you have with the Dillard pic (IMO a fake) there is no motorcade in that pic, therefore you can't figure out the exact moment in time when it was made ...

 

@ To all: The pic posted by me is a still out of the Robert Hughes film ...  which BTW is badly cut ( a lot of frames are missing) and therefore manipulated like all the other films of the assassination. Some originals are out there in the unknown or destroyed down to the present day: (Nix-film.) Others  never shown, for instance: the film of CBS Cameraman Thomas J. Craven who was sitting in the same follow up car as Wiegman. What we have, on You Tube and in some archives is a bunch of distorted, curt and manipulated film, non of us saw any uncut original version of any film of the assassination ... film analyses of the assassination is rather a useless business, other than realizing that what we got is useless junk ... where is the Zapruder original, where is the Nix-Original, where are the uncut versions of the Wiegmann, the Doorman the Muchmore film? It's a morass. Isn't it?

There is another problem with Jarman, Norman and Williams: Their working place where they had their lunch and their tools, was on the sixth floor behind the westernmost window, where they were laying a new plywood floor. Why they would go a floor down and to  the opposite site of the building where they had no business at all, to watch the parade where a southern live oak is blocking the view on elm street and where one could not make the observations, they described to the Warren Commission? (Kennedys reactions to the shots for example ...) ... I believe Jarman, Norman and Williams where watching the parade from the westernmost window of the sixth floor, where they were their working place was ( laying plywood under the supervision of the suspicious William Shelley, who was out in  the front at the time of the shooting and with whom Oswald was standing around after the shooting, according to the FRITZ NOTES) ) , where they (J, N and Williams) had their tools and their lunch and the shooter they heard above them was on the seventh floor, in exact the same window the Rowlands saw a rifleman minutes prior to the shooting ... this man was on the seventh floor in the westernmost window.  He was firing twice and was not Oswald. IMO this was the erect standing shooter Brennan saw, unless the Warren Commission brainwashed him. Note: The seventh floor is the only floor where a shooter can stand erect, while shooting as observed by Brennan. Everybody can prove that by his own. The building is still there. 😉 Erect Shooter in window: Only possible at seventh floor. 

KK

Edited June 29, 2019 by Karl Kinaski

[Joe Bauer]

15 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

My pic is a detail from the Weaver pic. 

This is from Robin Unger's site and there is a detail shot as well, from the FBI, which I enhanced.

 

Some people say the Dillard photo below is a fake, and I am inclined to agree with them, the people inside the pic are inserted, which in a setting like this (black backgrounds) can be done in a dark room quite easy.

These photos trigger so many thoughts and questions and even strange observations.

The first photo above ominously shows JFK with his right hand placed at the exact location of his head blowout wound which would occur just seconds later.

JFK's coat back is definitely bunched up toward his neck which some have speculated was an important fact in determining the back wound entry location.

This photo provides a good high and low angle position perspective of JFK versus Connally in front and below JFK.

IMO, from this photo I still can't see how a bullet entering JFK's upper back and exiting through his throat could then drop down the clearly steeper angle to hit Connally in his upper right back.

The supposed 6th floor "sniper's perch" window is open only half the height of the 5th floor windows where Williams, Jarman and Norman are located.  To me, it seems so tight in this way, I would think this narrow opening would make the successful bulls-eye aiming and shooting feat that the shooter supposedly pulled off that much more remarkable.

Add the fact that these windows were quite low to the floor which I believe required a shooter to be either on his knees or sitting on a fairly low height box of books to get properly set and stable to align and aim his gun and scope and shoot. Would this lowness of body position make the shooting effort even more difficult? I would assume so.

The entire Houston/Elm street facing of the Texas School Book Depository building we see in these photos is so brightly illuminated from direct noon time sun it's actually glaring.  

Gives film and pics of this scene (especially black and white ones) an eerie dream like quality.

I have wondered why Norman, Jarman and Williams reacted the way they did being so close to the booming shots maybe less that ten feet above and from them. Can you imagine how loud this must have been to their ears? And the shot energy was actually displacing white paint or perhaps dry wall flakes to rain down on their heads?

And they were hearing the rifle clip actions and even shells hitting the floor right above their heads?

Within just a few seconds these three co-workers must have understood what had just happened especially when they saw the frantic, screaming chaos ensuing immediately right below them in the Plaza.

What would I have done? I understand the reality of being so shocked you freeze. And definitely black men in Dallas at that time felt fearful of any contact with the police. Maybe W, J and N had this built-in fear of being somehow suspects if they ran as fast as they could to the first DPD officer they could find? 

They seemed to back off of any instant actions in this regard, even though they were so close to a shooter right above them. Maybe these fellows also feared being victims themselves if they immediately ran to investigate the floor right above them?

The crowd had definitely thinned out versus the huge one lining Main. I'll guess that JFK and Jackie were relieved at this point sensing the intense and loud public display of themselves was just about over and they could relax from all the required and perhaps exhausting smiling and waving.

One last thought. 

If I was tasked with JFK's motorcade security and saw the open windows of the TXSBD building, which were right above JFK's open limo which had to slow to make that 180 degree turn in front of this,  I think I'd be more aware and concerned of this potential threat, if even to just have someone in the security team scanning these open windows with binoculars during the time JFK's limo was passing underneath.

For several uninstructed, untrained, unequipped and simply casually looking around Dealey Plaza bystanders to clearly see a man or men with rifles in the 6th floor TSBD building windows minutes before and during the shooting and not one ground located security person with binoculars and training and instruction does so just adds to the sickness one feels in contemplating the worst case breakdown in JFK's security that day.

And the limo inner windshield frame dent/hole is at an impossibly higher angle of entry from anything leaving JFK's body when he was hit from supposedly high above and in back.

 

 

Edited June 29, 2019 by Joe Bauer

[Lawrence Schnapf]

A more simpler explanation. The black witness were the only ones asked by either Jerry Ford or Allen Dulles if they ever had been in trouble with the law. I suspect they got the message and gave the answers that were sought. this is part of how evidence was manufactured to fit the preferred narrative.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Karl Kinaski said:

@ Bart Kamp Two bodys??? Maybe ... but since there is no motorcade in your pic, its impossible to fix the moment it was made ... the same problem you have with the Dillard pic (IMO a fake) there is no motorcade in that pic, therefore you can't figure out the exact moment in time when it was made ...

 

@ To all: The pic posted by me is a still out of the Robert Hughes film ...  which BTW is badly cut ( a lot of frames are missing) and therefore manipulated like all the other films of the assassination. Some originals are out there in the unknown or destroyed down to the present day: (Nix-film.) Others  never shown, for instance: the film of CBS Cameraman Thomas J. Craven who was sitting in the same follow up car as Wiegman. What we have, on You Tube and in some archives is a bunch of distorted, curt and manipulated film, non of us saw any uncut original version of any film of the assassination ... film analyses of the assassination is rather a useless business, other than realizing that what we got is useless junk ... where is the Zapruder original, where is the Nix-Original, where are the uncut versions of the Wiegmann, the Doorman the Muchmore film? It's a morass. Isn't it?

There is another problem with Jarman, Norman and Williams: Their working place where they had their lunch and their tools, was on the sixth floor behind the westernmost window, where they were laying a new plywood floor. Why they would go a floor down and to  the opposite site of the building where they had no business at all, to watch the parade where a southern live oak is blocking the view on elm street and where one could not make the observations, they described to the Warren Commission? (Kennedys reactions to the shots for example ...) ... I believe Jarman, Norman and Williams where watching the parade from the westernmost window of the sixth floor, where they were their working place was ( laying plywood under the supervision of the suspicious William Shelley, who was out in  the front at the time of the shooting and with whom Oswald was standing around after the shooting, according to the FRITZ NOTES) ) , where they (J, N and Williams) had their tools and their lunch and the shooter they heard above them was on the seventh floor, in exact the same window the Rowlands saw a rifleman minutes prior to the shooting ... this man was on the seventh floor in the westernmost window.  He was firing twice and was not Oswald. IMO this was the erect standing shooter Brennan saw, unless the Warren Commission brainwashed him. Note: The seventh floor is the only floor where a shooter can stand erect, while shooting as observed by Brennan. Everybody can prove that by his own. The building is still there. 😉 Erect Shooter in window: Only possible at seventh floor. 

KK

Weaver pic was taken when the limo was turning on to Houston from Main. This is something I already pointed out.

The Dillard pic was supposedly shot while the motorcade stood still and Dillard was in cam Car 3. The same car as Couch and Darnell.

[Stephanie Goldberg]

Thanks, Karl!

As for the three guys - Jarman, Norman & Williams - I imagine they would have been terrified of being blamed in 1963 Dallas.  But Bonnie Ray Williams had a shifting statement if I remember it correctly from discussions about the Prayer Man photo, didn't he?  And there was a lot of discussion about how long it took him to eat his chicken.  I've always felt that these three said whatever they felt the police wanted them to say.  

Actually, when I first started reading up on the details of that day, I used to assume that Bonnie Ray Williams was somehow a lookout for somebody on the 6th floor since the timeline was awfully close for him to be eating there and then have LHO allegedly there to put the rifle together (minus any easily discovered fingerprints)...drag his boxes into place...do the shooting...and then manage to make it back downstairs in the official timeline without looking winded or disheveled.  But the only way that would work was if all three men were part of something fishy since they pretty much vouched for each other.

[John Butler]

The second set of windows from the east side on the 4th floor appears to have someone there.  If Yola Hopson and Ruth Nelson are in the 4th set of windows from the east side of the TSBD then who is in the second set of windows?  Adams, etc. are in the 3rd set of windows from the east side of the TSBD.

Mary Hollies and Betty Foster are either elsewhere on the 4th of 5th floor.  Mary Hollies is supposedly the girl in the window in a later photo.  Judy McCully can't make up her mind if she was on the 4th floor on the front steps of the TSBD.

So, who is there if anybody?  The standard for that time of day should be shades drawn to block sunlight and heat from coming into the well lit air conditioned office space.

Edited June 30, 2019 by John Butler

[Guest]

McCully was not on the front steps, a FBI agent 'advised' her to say this.

I spoke with her daughter just over a year ago.